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Post by JohnH on Sept 11, 2009 23:04:55 GMT -5
This is a design with three single coil pickups, aimed at providing just the settings that I have found useful from previous schemes, with a minimum of controls . It has a 5-way superswitch, a toggle switch plus volume and tone pots. There’s parallel and series mode, controlled by a 4-pole toggle switch. I’ve kept with just the basic 5 single and parallel settings, since they are the classics expected on a Strat and I find I don’t use other parallel options. No phase switch is shown, they are fun to play with but I dont think I have every used one on a song - for a bright sound, the bridge SC is enough. It would be easy to add one though. In series mode, all four basic series combinations of two or three pickups are catered for, plus the only in between blended option that I have found useful from my blender-based designs, which is bridge with just a small amount of neck in series, achieved using a bypass resistor. So there’s five plus five basic sounds. Also included, in series mode is an enhanced tone control, discussed further on this thread: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=4432....which at max treble in series mode, bypasses the bassiest pickup in each combination with a capacitor to enhance treble by giving the high frequencies from the bridge side a more direct path. Here is a wiring diagram and schematic:  In operation, two of the superswitch poles (blue) are dedicated to replicating the action of a standard 5-way switch. The toggle switch disconnects sufficiently from those parallel switching poles and puts all the pups in series. Then the other two superswitch poles direct the tone control 'enhanced' connection, and bypass one of the pickups , as required for the two pickup series combos. I haven’t built this one yet, being entirely short of all the necessary parts, a suitable guitar, somewhere to put it and the required available $! But it’s based on a few other schemes however, so baring errors, it should work fine. Cheers John |
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Post by JohnH on Feb 4, 2012 16:28:33 GMT -5
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Post by dannyhill on Oct 15, 2013 6:17:45 GMT -5
Hi John,
I very much like the first schematic here, is there any way to swap NXM and NXMXB?
What can I use the third pot for? A series tone control a la Strat lovers strat? Or Fade control? Or insert a rotary switch for different bass cut switches across outoput of different pickups?
Cheers,
Danny
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Post by JohnH on Oct 15, 2013 14:31:20 GMT -5
Hi Danny - there would be a few possibilities. I think a rotary with some cap changes might be of most use.
btw. Since drawing that, I now would use a 150k resistor on the treble bleed. Ill think more about other possibilities
cheers
John
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Post by dannyhill on Oct 16, 2013 4:20:45 GMT -5
Hi John,
Thanks for that!
I use a 150K on all my non-middy pups (Strat, Jag, Tele etc), and 200k on middy pups (P90, HBs, minis etc).
For the rotary I'm thinking switching between no cap, 0.01 in series with neck, 0.0056 in series with neck, 0.01 in series with middle, 0.0056 in series with middle, 0.01 in series with bridge, 0.0056 in series with bridge.
I use those caps for 'mild' individual bass cuts, HOOP (0.01) and mid freq hump (0.056 in series with one pup, 0.0068 in parallel with another - set from DP3Ts). What does that need? 3P7T rotary? I guess I could live without bridge pickup in series with 0.0056uF - so a 3P6T or 4P6T?
Ideally, I would love to have a rotary that gave me either no caps/0.01 in series with one pup/0.01 in series with the other pup/0.0056 in series with one pup and 0.0068 in parallel to the other/0.0056 in series with the other pup and 0.0068 in parallel to the first pup - can that be done with a 4P6T, or do I need more poles?
Then neck on in parallel for the volume p/p, middle phase for neck tone p/p, bridge phase for middle tone p/p.
4PDT as per your design.
2PTT for neck treble cut (no cap/0.001uF/0.068)
2PTT for middle treble cut (no cap/0.001uF/0.068)
2PTT for strangle switch.
(I have 3 toggles on the strat and room for another).
How does it sound?
D
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Post by dannyhill on Oct 22, 2013 6:48:44 GMT -5
Still thinking about it John?
:-)
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Post by JohnH on Oct 22, 2013 15:50:54 GMT -5
Still thinking about it John? :-) Actually I haven't been thinking about guitars, or even picking them up. We have had bush fires getting within a few hundred m of our place, been out with the fire service putting them out, helping deal with horse issues plus I've been juggling engineering work commitments and getting students ready for their finals. I think we are safe now, but I've been a bit busy. |
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Post by JohnH on Oct 22, 2013 16:10:32 GMT -5
For a further rotary switch knob, I would use it for cap changes as follows:
Replace the current 0.022 tone cap on the tone pot wiper, with a wire link. Add a new tone cap on the hot side of the tone pot (this acts as the normal tone cap, and would be 0.022 if not a switchable value, call in cap A), and a second cap on the cold side of the tone pot (0.047 normally, call it cap B). Cap B is used to bypass the neck-side pickups, when in series mode and max tone - makes the sound brighter. All this is similar to how it works as shown with the single 0.022, but I find that a larger value is better for the bypassing.
Then, make Cap A and Cap B switchable using a 2P6T rotary: I suggest:
A B
zero zero - for a no-load setting
0.0047 zero
0.01 0.022
0.015 0.033
0.022 0.047
0.047 0.082
But the lower settings would do similar to some of your toggle proposals
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Post by dannyhill on Oct 23, 2013 8:50:48 GMT -5
Hi John,
Sorry to hear about the bush fires, I've kept myself up to date at breakfast over CNN.
The best of British!
I see where you are coming from with the rotary option and its interesting, but I would prefer that which I mentioned.
So, for now. Is the swapping of positions 1 and 2 feasible?
Cheers,
Daniel
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Post by JohnH on Oct 23, 2013 14:11:05 GMT -5
with a superswitch, you can move the wiring of the lugs to put the settings in any order you like. Each one is independent.
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Post by dannyhill on Oct 24, 2013 6:32:18 GMT -5
Hi John,
Seems your fire trouble is easing, lets hope it keeps going that way.
Great on the lug change.
I need to check again the whole rotary switch as I just realised that this would leave me with one less p/p - see if I can make the switch combinations more 'economical/smart'.
Cheers,
Daniel
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Post by dannyhill on Oct 26, 2013 3:41:38 GMT -5
OK, I think I got it now.
BTW I guess I can change all the series connections so they get picked out of the chain from ground to hot: N M B?
i.e. NbypassXB, MxB, NxB, NXMXB, NXM - so in fact just the first two change their pup order in the chain?
Ta
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Post by JohnH on Oct 26, 2013 8:04:35 GMT -5
In principle, the toggle puts all pickups in series, and you could vary the order if there was a need to. Then the two super switch poles selectively bypass parts of the series chain to leave whichever pickups you want active in each position
Other variations on this design, given that its using a superswitch, could involve having a different parallel combo in position 3, such as the popular N+B instead of M. The only fundamental with this system is that parallel and series have to be in different toggle positions
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quillpen
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Post by quillpen on Oct 28, 2013 9:23:14 GMT -5
I love this mod. It really seems to be the best of everything you could want in a strat config, without any of the unwanted, or less usable options. To me it seems perfect, but I do have couple of questions if you don't mind.
Is there a reason that it shows using 500k pots, or is this just a personal preference?
Also am I correct that it is showing only one tone pot? As in one master tone? ......If so, is this mod feasible with both tone pots?
I apologize if these are naive questions, or if I'm reading the diagram incorrectly, as even though I've played guitar for a living the better part of 20 years, I am still quite new at guitar wiring, and working with electronics in general.
Thanks again for your work, and knowledge. It is truly appreciated.
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Post by newey on Oct 28, 2013 10:52:11 GMT -5
quillpen-
Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!
I'm sure JohnH will be along presently to discuss this further, since it is his design. But I'll take a stab at some of your questions.
Personal preference. The 500KΩ pots will be a bit brighter when at "10" than 250KΩ pots. If log taper pots are used, turning the 500K ones down to about "8" will replicate the 250K ones.
Yes, but it's more than just a master tone. Read JohnH's description of how the tone pot operates when in series. This is a specialized use of the pot.
Whether two tone pots can be used, as per a regular Strat set-up (neck and mid tone pots) is a topic I'll let JohnH weigh in on. But this is problematic with the series configurations and might require more switching to accomplish.
John's revision diagram of this suggests using the extra hole for a "mid shaper" pot, although he doesn't elaborate on that, and I'm not really sure what he's intending there.
These schemes are as yet unbuilt, so if you decide to do so, you're the guinea pig! But, we'll help walk you through the mod if you decide to do it. Understand, however, that this is a pretty sophisticated mod. Expect to have to do some troubleshooting, and don't plan to do this on a guitar that you will need for a gig anytime soon!
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Post by JohnH on Oct 29, 2013 14:19:49 GMT -5
Hi quillpen, thanks for your interest in this scheme.
To use two tone pots, the easiest thing to do would be to wire one of them directly across the leads of one pickup. Id suggest the neck pickup, then make the master tone a standard wiring (remove wire from pot to 5 way). id make both tone pots no-load pots, then you could keep the volume pot at 250k. You can convert a standard pot to no-load quite easily.
Another way to fill the spare hole, is with a rotary switch, to change caps - see discussion with danny above. That's what I would do I think.
The 500k pots keep a bit more brightness in the series settings, but its a small difference.
btw, on the volume pot you will see a 220k resistor. This, with a 1nF capacitor, is a treble bleed circuit, which keeps clarity when you reduce volume. A slightly better value is 150k for a 500k pot, or 120k with a 250k pot
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quillpen
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Post by quillpen on Oct 29, 2013 22:49:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply guys.
I'm very interested in trying this scheme. Unfortunately I do have a plethora of shows lined up, and I want to do this to my stage guitar, so I'm going to have to designate the time to work this out just right.
I was only curious about keeping both of the tone pots because I'm able to get some quite useful sounds with my 2, and 4 positions using the tone pots, as I have moved the second tone pot to my bridge pickup with the middle pickup full on, but I have always wanted to try a "varitone" knob with different caps, so I might as well give that a go.
As for the 500k pots, I had suspected that it may have had something to do with offering a bit more brightness with the series switching. It's something I have considered trying, as I use series switching myself.
I also use a treble bleed circuit so I'm familiar with them. Only I used a .002 cap with either a 100k, or 120k resistor.....I can't remember now what I stuck in there....lol...
Anyways, thank you guys very much for sharing your knowledge, and helping me with this. I have been very plagued by this problem for some time now as I use a series mod with one toggle switch, that allows you to keep the standard strat switching, and gives you neck/mid in series......neck/mid/ in parallel with bridge in series, and neck/bridge in series.............as I'm perfectly happy with this set up, I desperately wanted to simply add mid/bridge in series somehow, as that is the only series option not available with my mod........I found a site that shows a way of achieving this wiring using a push/pull pot, but I really wanted to figure a way to do this with scavenged parts from electronics, as it is quite difficult for me to order parts, so hopefully I can work this out using this knowledge.
Thanks again.
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quillpen
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Post by quillpen on Nov 1, 2013 6:52:12 GMT -5
I just realized something about this schematic, and please forgive my ignorance of working with electronics, like I said before I'm still very much new to it, and trying to catch up, and learn all I can.
The toggle switch in this scheme shows 12 lugs for soldering, which is if I remember correctly the same amount of lugs that the push/pull pot had when I looked it up. All of the different toggles, and switches I've scavenged up till now either have 6, or fewer.
So my question is first what do you call the toggle switch called for in this mod? Also I have a 3 indent rotary switch with 12 lugs for soldering, which I assume could be used to accomplish this.......am I correct? Or would it be possible to achieve this with two push button switches with 6 lugs on each?
Again, forgive my ignorance, and I truly appreciate your time in answering these questions, and helping me.........thanks again guys.
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Post by JohnH on Nov 1, 2013 14:55:06 GMT -5
Its good to ask. The toggle switch, with 12 lugs, is a 'four pole double throw' switch, or '4pdt'. It is like four separate switches side by side, controlled by one lever. The middle lugs (I shaded them dark) connect to the upper or lower lugs depending on the lever position. When the liver is up, the lugs connect down. The toggles you have are probably 'double pole double throw' dpdt, ie half of a 4pdt. In theory you could put two dpdt's next to each other, but I wouldn't recommend this since you would have to flick two switches at once, and it you only did one, the scheme would not work. Your rotary, with three positions, may well be a '4 pole 3 throw', if it has 12 lugs around the outside and 4 on the inside? In theory, you could use that, but it has an extra position, and it would replace one tone pot on a Strat. The extra position would need to be used for something IMO, otherwise its a 'quirky' compromised design. The thing that comes to mind, is to make the third position act as another set of parallel sounds, but with neck forced to be on, so you get to add B+N and B+M+N in parallel to the sound selection. But it would need a new diagram and be quite a complex wiring. The 4 pole toggles cost about $7 Or, could I suggest that you take another look at one of the other schemes that I listed on your Strat-talk thread? Its the Mike Richardson mod Its a much simpler wiring, and many people have built it successfully. All you need in addition to the super-switch, is one dpdt toggle. The Strat SP can also be stripped back to just a superswitch, and a dpdt toggle (or push pull), if you didn't want the phase switch, and it could have two tone pots if wanted. Cheers John |
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quillpen
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Post by quillpen on Nov 4, 2013 17:56:26 GMT -5
Oops.....I apologize friend, I should have checked out that diagram first. I was just so smitten with your scheme, I instantly fell in love with it, and was determined to find a way to use it, but since you've pointed it out, I actually think the Mike Richardson mod is more along the lines of what I should try for.
Sacrificing the middle pickup option is a bummer, but I can totally see how neck/bridge in parallel is viable option in replacement, and could possibly even be more to my liking.
I need to study this schematic a bit, as I'm not all that great at reading them yet, but I will figure this out, and I have everything needed to do this mod.
Thanks friend, and I hope you don't mind me asking a few questions along the way if I get stumped. It is truly appreciated.
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Post by b4nj0 on Nov 5, 2013 3:42:46 GMT -5
Sacrificing the middle pickup for the "Tele" N+B is a rich exchange IMO. MR's design also allows for the two tone controls to cover all pickups in a more sensible (and occasionally... "interesting") way. I don't miss the middle pick up. A second piggy back switch would allow selection of the middle pickup alone if it's really really a deal breaker and probably of more use than a phase switch.
I've wired two S type guitars this way and I have recommended the design on here a couple of times.
John's design looks equally interesting though!
e&oe...
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