~Maxx
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Post by ~Maxx on Mar 29, 2011 21:27:13 GMT -5
Hi folks. I've got another thread going in the wiring forum detailing a partscaster I'm working on, but had a question concerning my nut/trem situation. This seemed to be the appropriate place for it... This project is currently equiped with a vintage strat-style trem, and an LSR nut on an old 22 fret Kramer neck. I've discovered that this is not a good setup for a floating trem, and am wondering what I shouold do - both short term and long term - to stabilize the obvious tuning issues. Here's a shot of the headstock...  For the curious - there are more pics of this project in my other thread here. Basically the LSR nut is pretty useless because of the headstock/tuner configuration which requires the string trees. Eventually I'll transfer this whole setup to a new body and neck. But would anyone have any suggestions as to what I might do in the meantime? Would I be better off with a retainer bar sitting behind the nut? Should I ditch the LSR and put in a cheap locking nut? I do have some locking Sperzel style tuners on the way, but I'm guessing these will only help a bit - if at all. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks! |
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Mar 30, 2011 9:08:49 GMT -5
Go with all 3 the sperzals, locking nut, and retainer bar. Most free float systems i've seen have both the locking nut and a retainer bar, but in my experiences either locking tuners or locking nut alone is just not enough. They always found a way to detune, til' i tried one with both, on an inshop custom build at a music shop. You could dive and pull off on that thing all day without loss of tuning. I usually dislike trem guitars, But god I wanted that one!!!
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~Maxx
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Post by ~Maxx on Mar 30, 2011 15:34:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply sb. Interesting observations about the locking nut + tuners. My initial thoughts on that scenario would have to be that if I'm still going out of tune at the headstock with a locking nut, then my locking nut isn't really "locking". The floating trem thing is pretty new to me though. I actually have the LSR on my Strat Deluxe, and it works very well. Granted the trem is not set to float, and there are no string trees. But I was very impressed with the stability of the LSR combined with the genuine Sperzel locking tuners on that guitar.
A couple of things have crossed my mind about this project guitars current setup. For starters (as has been pointed out to me), the path of the string behind the nut should be straight in order for the rollers to be most efficient. In addition it's occurred to me that the less space I have between the tuning post and the string tree, the less opportunity there will be for a slack in tension in places where the LSR can't compensate for it. So I'm thinking I'll try to re-situate the string trees when I install the locking tuners. That may get me at least close to where my Deluxe is in terms of stability.
I do think I'll go ahead and order a locking nut. They're not much $$, and I may as well have one on hand when I start messing with this stuff. I'd just really like to avoid that route since there are no fine tuners on this bridge. Something else that may help is installing this trem stabilizer that I have from my other Strat (Rockinger type). I need to read a bit more about how to set it up though. It seems to be a bit daunting...
Anyway... I'll post my findings for posterity. Thanks!
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Post by 4real on Mar 30, 2011 23:19:09 GMT -5
Without fine tuners, I don't think a locking nut is an option, the act of clamping the strings down is going to pull the strings out of tune. Locking tuners as well would be redundant. Did I not post this idea I used on my LP Kahler floating trem from the gallery section.  I made some 'rollers' from the ball ends of strings into a bit of aluminium. It need not be a truss rod cover or in a fancy shape or even close to the nut...just as long as the string pull is straight over the LSR and doesn't deviate in the path to the tuners. I only needed 4 rollers as the E strings were relatively straight over teh graphite nut. You could do similar to guide the strings straight over the LSR. You might even be able to get a similar effect with the roller trees you have, not sure. LSR's are designed for fender style straight heads, but they are good, see my telecaster...not seen it attempted with the strings splayed like that. I didn't use one for my LP because of the splay and because of the need to modify the fretboard and possible neck width and fretboard radius issues, seemed to much of a 'risk'. Good luck...pete |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2011 4:28:25 GMT -5
un2max,
Having LSR nut, vintage tremolo, You are no worse than you are supposed to be. right?
Anyway, does your system suffer in the nut side of in the bridge side?
Your guitar seems correctly put, i dont see any reason why it should de-tune by the use of the tremolo.
PS
man looking at your old bridge, MAN!! you are destroying history!
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~Maxx
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Post by ~Maxx on Mar 31, 2011 13:19:39 GMT -5
Did I not post this idea I used on my LP Kahler floating trem from the gallery section. I did see that in the other thread - and it's quite brilliant. But I don't think it would serve to hold the strings down for me. I should post a side shot of the headstock. But basically the last two or three strings would not rest on the nut at all if they weren't held down by the tree, so I need the tree to hold them down and in, if you follow me. Your guitar seems correctly put, i dont see any reason why it should de-tune by the use of the tremolo. Really?  Because I see several issues myself. In fact I don't see how anyone could have expected it to stay in tune at all. Too much opportunity for difference in tension from the nut upward. man looking at your old bridge, MAN!! you are destroying history! Some things should be buried in the past.  ...  |
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Apr 4, 2011 2:30:56 GMT -5
that bridge does look to be a bit decrepid, i never liked that particular version of the strat saddles either i would've tossed them out first thing and the bent plate sustain block must've gave it a dead sound didn't it? there's just not enough metal there to resonate with the strings vibrations properly! shoddy production work even by fender/squier, standards thats gotta be cut rate foriegn made at best. i'd say its most likely korean as a guess???
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2011 6:10:29 GMT -5
Really? Because I see several issues myself. In fact I don't see how anyone could have expected it to stay in tune at all. Too much opportunity for difference in tension from the nut upward. I dont know, i have brass nut (you have a better one- LSR), almost identical string trees, and a vintage-type plain vanilla asian bridge, and it plays just fine, great sound, stays in tune even after the wildest dive bombs, never detunes (or just not any more than any floyd rose would do). So i dont quite follow the issues you are seeing with yours. |
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Because I see several issues myself. In fact I don't see how anyone could have expected it to stay in tune at all. Too much opportunity for difference in tension from the nut upward.
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