S-S-H to H-S-H config with less switch(es) q's

[seventh string]

Hi, I’m new to this forum. I think this forum is the best guitar-pickup-and-wiring forum that I know so far.

I have some question, currently I have a strat-type “Carvin” guitar (The manufacturer call it “Bolt” type). The default p/u for this guitar was S-S-S, but after I opened the pickup guard, I saw that they already carved the wood so it would be enough for H-H-H p/u.

Few weeks ago I replaced the bridge p/u with “Dimarzio Tone Zone”, which was a humbucker so it become S-S-H, and my current modified configuration was like this:
(sorry if the picture was too small)



I used:
- 2pcs of 1 Meg Log capacitors for Volume & Tone
- a 5-way switch with 8 poles (see the switch configuration below)
- a 4-way rotary switch with 3 poles (see the switch configuration below)

(Any comments about my current configuration are welcome.)

I was planned to change the neck p/u with “Dimarzio Humbucker From Hell” later, which was also a humbucker, so it’ll become H-S-H.

I want to ask anyone about the configuration, with some conditions like this:

1. I have 2 kind of 5-way switch (8 poles & 7 poles) with connections like this:

For example:
8 poles swtich, at position 1, pole C & D will connect and pole E & H will connect, separately.
7 poles swtich, at position 2, pole A, C & G will connect and pole D & F will connect, separately.



2. In my city, there’s only 4-way or 6-way rotary switches exist, but it’s unlimited. The connections was like this:



3. Another switch option was DPDT On\On Switch (there’s also DPDT On\On\On, but I don’t know how was the connection, because different manufacturer, different connection)
4. The pickup guard only had 3 holes for volume/tone or a switch and a hole for 5-way switch., If it can, I don’t want to add any extra hole, but if it have to, it’s okay. But I don’t want too much switches (I’m not a switches mania like Steve Morse )

My configuration plan was like this:



I used:
- 2pcs of 1 Meg Log capacitors for Volume & Tone
- a 5-way switch with 8 poles (see the switch configuration above)
- 2 pcs of 4-way rotary switch with 3 poles (see the switch configuration above)

But since it need an extra hole for another 4-way rotary switch, I need some other perception

I want some configuration like this:
1. Separate p/u selection (i.e. Neck only, middle only or bridge only) --> already did
2. Serial/Paralel/Single selection for each humbucker --> already did

3. if it’s possible I want serial/paralel connection between two p/u (i.e. Neck+Mid Serial/Paralel, Mid+Bridge Serial/Paralel).
4. Another optional was Neck+Bridge selection and
5. Phase In/Out for at least one p/u.

Anyone can help me?
It don’t have to fulfill all the 5 configurations, at least configuration 1 & 2 but with less switch(es), or another options that I haven’t listed here, maybe?

Thank you for your time and sorry if my english were not good, since it was not my mother language.

GBU.

[sumgai]

SS,

Hey there partner, do ya suppose you could trim those things just a little, eh? Please??

Or do you have the deluxe 30" monitor set at 1920 x 1440 resolution, so oversized pictures that stress the rest of us don't phase you? ;D In which case, where's the Jealousy smilie?

Thanks!


sumgai

[seventh string]

Sorry, i didn't mean to.

I'm just affraid that you can't see the text.

okay, i'm already modified the picture, tell me if it's still too big.

If you need the original size, use this link:
i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/SSH.jpg
i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/HSH.jpg
i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/switches.jpg
i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/switches2.jpg

Thanks

GBU

[sumgai]

GBU,

Hey, no problem, and thanks for making things easier for those of us with smaller monitors. ;D Much appreciated.

And to the forums!

I'm not the one to talk about pickup switching designs. Many others here have designed circuits that can already do what you want, or very nearly so, and I expect that they will offer advice when the holidaze are over. (Many of us tend to act like musicians instead of real people. ) But while waiting for them, have you checked out the topics in the Schematics sub-forum yet? Some of them are quite close to what you're looking for.

HTH


sumgai

[seventh string]

Sorry..for late reply.

I got my H-S-H planning scheme from the GN site & GE site.

It's okay, i just asked for some other perceptions anyway.....

But i need to ask this: how to make serial/paralel connection with either one of my 5-way switch (8-poles or 7-poles)?
to tell you the truth, i have no idea.....

GBU.

[CheshireCat]

seventh said:

Sorry, i didn't mean to.

I'm just affraid that you can't see the text.

okay, i'm already modified the picture, tell me if it's still too big.

If you need the original size, use this link:
i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/SSH.jpg
i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/HSH.jpg
i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/switches.jpg
i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/switches2.jpg

Thanks

GBU

What program did you use to render those?

[seventh string]

Hi CC, i drew that using standard CAD program, then i cuted it using Windows Paint.

GBU.

[CheshireCat]

seventh said:

Hi CC, i drew that using standard CAD program, then i cuted it using Windows Paint.

GBU.

Interesting. I'm going to need to get CAD. BTW, "cuted"?

[seventh string]

uh, sorry, my mistake, i mean "cropped" =p

[CheshireCat]

seventh said:

uh, sorry, my mistake, i mean "cropped" =p

Ah. No worries.

Incidentally, I didn't quite get your nomenclature on the rotaries for each humbucker. Am I correct in deducing that the first position is "humbucker: series," the second "humbucker: parallel," the third "single coil: N coil," and the fourth "single coil: S coil"?

[seventh string]

yes, it was. I got that wiring idea (using 4-way rotary instead of 5-way rotary) from guitarelectronics.com.
But in my experience with current S-S-H configuration till now, it's quite hard to turn the 4-way rotary switch on stage, especially during a song that need to switch fast.
i.e. from distorted-series-humbucker to clean-singlecoil or clean-parallel-humbucker.

I think i'll change my H-S-H config and i'll try to find DPDT On\On\On Switch and use it instead of rotary switch.

Sorry if my explanation wasn't quite clear in the first post, but in simple ways, i need some other opinions about my H-S-H config above (maybe you have more simple diagram or you can achieve many combinations with less switch?)

For now, can you at least give me any illustration or explanation, how to make an serial/parallel connection between two p/us using my 5-way switch i mentioned above. (what i find from other sources was only the pin number or where to solder, but not how it's connected for each positions)
I hope you can understand my picture. if not, here some example:
for the 8-poles, if you switch to 2nd position, pin B will connect with pin C and D also pin E will connect with pin G and H.
in 5th position, pin A will connect with pin D and pin E will connect with pin F.

GBU.

[CheshireCat]

seventh said:

yes, it was. I got that wiring idea (using 4-way rotary instead of 5-way rotary) from guitarelectronics.com.
But in my experience with current S-S-H configuration till now, it's quite hard to turn the 4-way rotary switch on stage, especially during a song that need to switch fast.
i.e. from distorted-series-humbucker to clean-singlecoil or clean-parallel-humbucker.

I think i'll change my H-S-H config and i'll try to find DPDT On\On\On Switch and use it instead of rotary switch.

Sorry if my explanation wasn't quite clear in the first post, but in simple ways, i need some other opinions about my H-S-H config above (maybe you have more simple diagram or you can achieve many combinations with less switch?)

For now, can you at least give me any illustration or explanation, how to make an serial/parallel connection between two p/us using my 5-way switch i mentioned above. (what i find from other sources was only the pin number or where to solder, but not how it's connected for each positions)
I hope you can understand my picture. if not, here some example:
for the 8-poles, if you switch to 2nd position, pin B will connect with pin C and D also pin E will connect with pin G and H.
in 5th position, pin A will connect with pin D and pin E will connect with pin F.

GBU.

Okay, first off, give us a list of what you will actually use. Second, what is the intended purpose of toggling between the N and S coils? Or, would "inner" and "outer" coils be a better designation? Are you trying to get some different PRS sounds?

[seventh string]

First reason: i like to experiment ;D
Second reason: this was my first time using a humbucker

After saving money for a long time, i finnally can buy a humbucker , right now i'm runing a saving for another humbucker but it's still not enough.
fyi, in my city a fair price for a humbucker was around Rp.800.000 (about $85 approx), and there's no cheaper store like musicianfriends.com
more expensive yes, cheaper no!
And btw, i can't afford a new guitar

Third reason: i play in a church band and a gospel band where we play many genres of songs (from rock to jazz, from funk to latin, from ethnic to pop, etc.), so the sounds was very essential. The more the better.
Fourth reason: back to the first reason

About the N and S connection, at first, i tought that the N or S coil will gave me a different sounds. Well, actually it was, the inner coil will gave me a warmer sound, but it wasn't too significant, that's why i'll reduce it in the next config (after i got my second humbucker).

Until now, i never got any good clean sound especially when strumming, i think maybe an inner/outer, N+B, NxB, single coil or phase out will produce a good clean sound ?!

But, i can't achieve that connection using my 5-way switch, i was almost confused, that's why i only used my 5-way to change from N, N+M, M, M+B and B, and for the series/parallel/single i use an extra rotary switch.

I hope you can understand and sorry, i'm having a hard time to explain it in english ;D

GBU.

[jhng]

A good clean sound for strumming on a Strat is N+B single coils. It sounds a bit like an acoustic guitar (very approximately!!).

The simplest way to get this sound is to add a "Neck-On" switch. If you can add a "on-on-on" mini-switch switch you can have "Normal Strat", "Neck-On in parallel", and "Bridge-On in series" options (the last one is part of the Strat-Lover's Strat mod on the first Guitarnuts site). This would be a simple but versatile set-up.

If you can get a four-pole rotary switch you can do Series/Split/Parallel for both Humbuckers on one switch (using two poles for each Humbucker). I would recommend using outer coils when split to get the most acoustic-like N+B sound.

Which sounds do you use most at the moment?


Hastings

[seventh string]

which sound..? do you mean the distorted or clean sound?
mm, i think it's almost 50-50, because most of the song we played use a clean sound in the verse then distorted in the reff to take the atmosphere up! (dynamic matters , and if somehow we're back in the verse, i switched up to the clean again.

if you mean about the p/u then most of the time i used the M+B(hum-parallel) for the clean sound and B(hum-series) for the distorted sound.
I rarely use the N or M p/u (for now), because the p/u was the original p/u from the guitar, so the sound somehow feel "dropped" compared to the B p/u


Sorry, a little OOT. What happened to the guitarnuts site? I tried to open the wiring link in the site, but i'm always get forwared to another site?
I want to check if i was missed something.

thx.

GBU.

[vonFrenchie]

Off topic but seventh... when I clicked on the wiring site it opened a new window that was blank, one that was some online music store (randomly musicians friend, sameday, etc) and the existing window was the wiring section. Someone must have hacked guitarnuts.

[sumgai]

vF,

Off topic but seventh... when I clicked on the wiring site it opened a new window that was blank, one that was some online music store (randomly musicians friend, sameday, etc) and the existing window was the wiring section. Someone must have hacked guitarnuts.

Nah, that's just JohnA's retarded link system. Instead of simple and bullet-proof HTML links, he's got some kind of javascript going on. Sadly, script writers raised on a diet of Twinkies and Jolt keep trying to get Joe Sixstring to go "ooh" and "ahh", and they don't care about how that affects those of us who want content, not flash..

If it were up to me, there'd be a law against complicating links on webpages!!! ;D And you don't wanna know what penalty I'd set for breaking this particular law!


sumgai

[CheshireCat]

sumgai said:

And you don't wanna know what penalty I'd set for breaking this particular law!

What, wearing a brown paper bag over your head with a face painted on it?

[jhng]

seventh said:

which sound..? do you mean the distorted or clean sound?
mm, i think it's almost 50-50, because most of the song we played use a clean sound in the verse then distorted in the reff to take the atmosphere up! (dynamic matters , and if somehow we're back in the verse, i switched up to the clean again.

if you mean about the p/u then most of the time i used the M+B(hum-parallel) for the clean sound and B(hum-series) for the distorted sound.
I rarely use the N or M p/u (for now), because the p/u was the original p/u from the guitar, so the sound somehow feel "dropped" compared to the B p/u


Sorry, a little OOT. What happened to the guitarnuts site? I tried to open the wiring link in the site, but i'm always get forwared to another site?
I want to check if i was missed something.

thx.

GBU.

Ok. What about a simple mod like this (for HSH) ("+" is parallel, "x" is series):

1- N (hb in series)
2- N (single) + M
3- N (single) + B (single)
4- B(single) + M
5- B (hb in series)

I could probably do an alternate mode (using a push/pull) like this:

1- N (hb in series)
2- N (single)
3- N (single) x B (single)
4- B (single)
5- B (hb in series)

This would give a fairly useful range of sounds.

Alternatively, with two push/pulls, the five-way, and a three position toggle where you have the rotary switch you could get quite a lot of useful stuff.

The goal is always to make it easy to use.

What I would try is:

Three position toggle controlling the middle pickup.

1- off
2- parallel (but only in positions 2,3, and 4, or just in positions 2 and 4)
3- middle pickup alone

Five-way:

1- N (always series HB)
2- N (ser/split/parallel depending on push/pulls)
3- N + B (each in ser/split/parallel depending on push/pulls)
4- B (ser/split/parallel depending on push/pulls)
5- B (always series HB)

Would any of these ideas be good for you? the idea is to have variable sounds in positions 2, 3, 4 while the Humbucker sounds remain constant in positions 1, and 5.

Hastings

[seventh string]

Uh, sorry, i don't know if this thread were replied month ago...
I'm only see in the "Last Post" indicator, that there's no reply.
My bad, and i've started a new thread already, i'll delete my new thread now.

GBU.

[seventh string]

Note: this was the new thread i posted:



(You can use this link instead if you can't see the text: i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/HSH-2.jpg)

currently i were used two 3-way rotary switches and i want to replace it all with 4P3T switches. (I found that the rotary switch was difficult to use in live)

I know it was a big waste to use 4P3T switches and not DP3T, but I've just found the 4P3T switches not so long ago, and that's the only On\On\On switch i can found in my country.
It's quite expensive for me, because it cost me Rp.27.000,- (approx USD 3) each compared to standard DPDT switch that only cost Rp.1.500,- (approx 15 cents)

The reason i were using two 4P3Ts instead of one were because i already drilled two hole on my guitar, so if i were only use one, the appearance will be bad then .

I need opinions if my plan was inefficient or maybe there's another simpler way to wire that?! Any comments are welcome.
fyi, i need heavy humbucker distortion, and accoustic-like clean sounds, because i were playing all around music: rock, jazz, reggae, ska, etc.

One more thing, i want to ask how to connect the Neck and Bridge in series with my current plans above?
It's okay to replace the current Neck & Bridge parallel connection, but it's always better to have both ;D

The connection of my 5-way switch was like this


That's all. hope you can help. I can't wait to wire it ASAP ;D

thx b4. GBU.

[seventh string]

After some moments, i've changed my mind (again) ;D
(Sorry, i'm in a trial-error process

here's my new plan:

The larger image link:
i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/HSH-3.jpg

@ jhng:
I think i'll remove the rotary switches and change it with 4P3T & DPDT switches. The rotary was too difficult to turn in the live situation.

I found that my needs were:
- series/parallel/single coil tap for each HBs simultaneously
- Neck/Middle/Bridge separately
- Neck & Bridge in series/parallel --> with phase out in Neck
- Middle & Bridge in parallel
(see the diagram above)

But the problem with the above diagram was i don't know how to eliminate the bridge off situation (position 3 & 4 in 5-way switch)..is it possible? or i have to bear with it?
Also when i'm only connect the Neck, if i turn the DPDT switch to series then the Bridge will on. Can it be eliminated too?

How's the single coil HB + Middle (Single Neck+Middle / Single Bridge+Middle) sounds like? Maybe i can consider it too.

fyi, i still can't found the push/pull pot in my country yet, especially the 1Megs pot.

vonFrenchie
yeah, that's what i mean, but sometimes it didn't happened.
Well, i know less about java nor script

ps. I'll keep the other 4P3T switch for later use.

thx.

GBU.

[jhng]

Hi Seventh,

I think that the best way of getting what you want is to wire the five-way switch just like a normal strat.

Then have two series/split/parallel switches- one for each humbucker (if you have a 4P3T you could do both pups on one switch).

Then have a further three position DPDT "on-on-on" switch (or use your other 4P3T switch) to do the following:

Up - Adds the Neck pup always on (i.e. a simple "Neck On switch")
Centre - Normal Strat
Down - Adds the Bridge pup in series (like on Strat Lovers strat).

Then add a phase switch to the Neck pup (again like Strat Lovers Strat).

Hastings

[seventh string]

Hmm, interesting, but i can't imagine how to wire it...?
(Let me think.....)

Isn't the up and down position act in the same way only in the reversed way?
i.e. when i turn the always on Neck and switch the 5-way to Bridge, isn't it will be same with the always on Bridge with the 5-way in Neck?
So why don't use only one option with another switch? or use a simple Bridge/Neck bypass?
I don't mind to buy another On\On or On\Off\On switches if needed (because it's very cheap ), but not the On\On\On switch and no another hole if it doesn't have to.

GBU.

[seventh string]

How about this:


Larger version:
i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/HSH-4.jpg

But it's lack of Neck+Bridge in parallel.

GBU.

[seventh string]

jhng:
I finally understand what you mean, it was like this isn't it?


larger version:
i69.photobucket.com/albums/i50/seventh_string/Guitarnuts%20email/HSH-5.jpg

Please tell me if i drew it wrong, it was already make me confused just to draw it

But i want to ask something:
when the 5-way switch in the 4th position (Neck + Bridge) and i bypassed the Bridge, the output will be only Bridge, right?
When i traced it, i found that because the positive & negative flow met each other.
Would it causing any damage for the pickups, such as because of short connection?
(Sorry, i don't have much electronic background)

GBU.

[JohnH]

Hi - I havnt studied the diagram, but it looks like you have a very versatile design happening there. i just wanted to chip in to say that you won't damage a pickup by shorting it out, in a bypassed option. Theres just not enough electricity flowing to do that. It should be fine. Ive been testing to see if shunting a coil sounds different to disconnecting it, as a way of switching it off. I think it sounds the same, but others may have a different view - see my thread on Coil shunting, from yesterday

cheers

John

[Mike Richardson]

I have an HSH setup for a Super Switch and a 6PDT rotary. It gives, in HB mode, Bridge HB, Bridge Parallel, Neck HB and Bridge HB, Neck Parallel, Neck HB. In SC mode, you get Bridge, Bridge and Middle, Bridge and Neck, Middle and Neck, Neck. I'll post it soon.

[seventh string]

Okay, i'm already wired the last configuration, finally i got what i want (even though i'm still ended with many switches )

mike:
thanks, but i don't want to use rotary switch again, since it was difficult to turn in the live situation.

Last thing:
Somehow i feel the sound was "dirty", it's like the sound of burning fire in the background....
is there any problem with the ground?

thx.

GBU.

[jhng]

Hi Seventh,

Sorry for not responding earlier. The diagram looks ok. Is it all working as expected? I'm not sure about the "dirty" sound. Is it the same in all combinations or just in certain combinations?

I'm afraid I'm going to be an even less frequent contributor to the board than usual for the foreseeable future. But I'm sure someone will be around help you trouble shoot it if necessary.

Hastings