H-S-S Pickup system

[elithraldor]

I have a Ibanez RG570 where I'm planning to replace the pickups for some more favorable. Atm it has an Ibanez H-S-H system, but what I would like to do is place this with a S-S-H system. H = EMG-85 and the two S would be a Telecaster set - www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Custom-Shop-Texas-Special-Tele-Pickups?sku=301620
Or something like that, perhabs the EMG telecaster set.

My question is; How do I do this - if it is even possible?

The problems that I have come to think about:

If all this can somehow be solved, then the question comes of how all the wiring is going to be done. I have not really been looking in to this part yet, but some suggestions would be appreciated.

Just to make it clear that I am well aware of the fact that I will not be able to achieve a total telecaster sound from this build - it depends on the wood and stuff like that - but I just want to get close.

Thanks in advance for any relevant answers.

[JohnH]

Hi elithraldor, and welcome to GN2

I just looked up the RG570 and the EMG 85, as well as those texas Tele pups.

For info, the tele pups are quite hot, at 10k impedance each, making them powerful in output - they shoud sound great!

The EMG85 is noted as being an active pickup, with a built-in preamp that runs on a battery.

The RG570 looks like it has a five position switch - I havent looked at how it is wired with the current HSH set up, but that info wil be available from the Ibanez website.

The main issue would be combining the active EMG with the passive tele pups. Has anyone done this? If not, I might suggest that the switching be such that the actives and passives are kept seperate and not try to make combined combos. Something could be arranged with a 5 way switch with say, neck, neck/middle in series, neck/middle in parallel, middle, bridge. It may well need a different five way switch. Or maybe, have the lever switch just control the tele pups, then pull a push/pull control or flick a toggle to change to the EMG

There could be something smart that could work with the current switch, just to get it going. once we see what that switch is.

Another practical issue is putting the neck single where a humbucker was -It might need some sort of cover plate to hide the larger routing?

cheers

John

[sumgai]

elithraldor,

Hi, and to the forums!

You've asked for some suggestions on how to wire up an H-S-S setup. We can help you come up with something specific, but there are some general guidelines I can give you to start with.

Within this forum, and the subforum called "Schematics", you'll find lots of ideas on various schemes. But the underlying topic is more generic, and more meaningful to you - almost anything is possible. More to the point, if it isn't possible, or if it shouldn't be done, then we've probably already discussed it, somewhere along the line in at least a couple of threads.

What all this boils down to is what sounds you want out of your rig. Serial or parallel? Local or global? Out-of-phase honk? Quack? Blend? How about a bass-cut tone control, want one of those?

As you can tell, there are lots of options. You should compile a list of what you want your guitar to sound like. Perhaps you have "guitar heroes" that you want to emulate, or at least some particular genre of music. Once you have a goal, it'll be easier for one of us to say "to get that, you gotta do this".

The ball's back in your court! ;D



sumgai

[elithraldor]

Hello and thanks for the warm welcome

The sound I want to produce is properly impossible. My guitar heroes stretch from Mark Knopfler over Joe Satriani to Zakk Wylde. And I want to combine these sounds. I thought the EMG 85 would make the Zakk Wylde and the tele pieces would create something along the line of Mark Knopfler. Then I just don’t have the JS sound. This could be solved by applying a DiMarzio Paf Joe at the neck, keeping the EMG, but then what about the Mark Knopfler sound? If I have to choose it would be a combination between JS and MK sound. But it could be nice with all the sounds in one guitar.

Btw it’s a 5-way switch that’s on my guitar atm, but that could be replaced if needed.

[sumgai]

eli,

I have to tell you that in short, you can't get there from here, you have to go somewhere else first!

;D

What you really want to do is cut the crap out of the middle, and head straight for the throat - buy a Roland VG-8 or VG-88, and be done with it. Every person you've ever heard play guitar, no matter what rig they were playing at any time in their lives, the VG-8/88 will emulate it, pure and simple.

Of course, it costs a bit of get into this game, but there are big payoffs down the road, after a bit of a learning curve. Just for drill, check out the VG-88 at Roland's site, here: Roland VG-88. (The prior generation, the VG-8, is no longer in production.) You can find them for sale on eBay and craigslist all around the US. There is also a website called, of all things, www.vg-8.com. This is setup to look and feel like a WIKI site, and it's pretty good.

A cheap way into this market might be a current eBay auction for a VG-8, which some players still like better than the newer version. Try this eBay Search Page for VG-8's currently for sale. VG-88's can be found here.

Usually cheaper, craigslist often has one or the other in your area. F'rinstance, ogle this. That one comes with a pickup, which really makes the unit a good deal, it's normally over $100, separate from the unit itself.

Just some thoughts here, that's all.


sumgai

[JohnH]

I would think if you really want to nail three particular sounds, then it may take three different rigs, of guitars, amps, effects and a selection suitable beanies and headbands. The digi modelling that Sumgai suggests might also get you 99% of what you want.

However, if you can get by with a great single-coil sound, and a great Hb sound, with lots of variations that would let you play in any style, then it can be done - and this is the place.

If you want to mix active and non-active pups in one sound, it will need a little further custom active electronics - how do you feel about that? - I can suggest schematics. Or if you can step back to a passive Hb , then theres lots of wiring options and those hot Texas Sc's will go well in an HSS set up.

cheers

John

[elithraldor]

Sumgai thanks for the info, but what I'm looking for is not three kinds of different sounds in one guitar. I can see that what I wrote was misleading, but I’m trying to make my own kind off sound, witch would be a mix of them. I want (as JohnH says) a good single coil setup for chords and more "easy music", and then a humbucker for rock/heavy/solo. I guess that could be done with the Roland, but then I have the problem that I'm from Denmark, and I'm currently visiting the US (staying here for 5 months). I Might get one when I get back home

I have been thinking about the setup all day now, and have come to think about putting two humbuckers in. B = Seymour Duncan TB-4 JB and N = DiMarzio Paf Joe. And then there’s room for one single coil. So I thought about putting a strat coil there. But then I wondered how it all sounds together? Can you mix these pickups and come out with a good tone.

[ccoleman]

sumgai and everyone...
1. how much input-output latency is there on the vg-88 ?! (ie time between striking the string and the sound coming out of the output).. less than 1ms I hope ?!
2. what is your opinion on digitally-controlled tube preamps with EQ and multiple programmable voicings that let you radically switch from one tone to another, for example: the ADA MP-1, MP-2, behringer v-amp rackmount, etc.. ?!?!
www.behringer.com/v-amp2/virtualgear.html

[sumgai]

cc,

1. how much input-output latency is there on the vg-88 ?! (ie time between striking the string and the sound coming out of the output).. less than 1ms I hope ?!

None - when you pluck is when you hear. Remember, the VG series doesn't do MIDI, which is where we have latency problems, starting right at the conversion point. A VG simply passes your standard analog signals to the output. Along the way, some digital filtering to modify the envelope takes place, but that's like having a tone control already set to "x" (some value) - it's there, and it affects everything that comes along, but it doesn't cause any delays in the signal.

No signal latency can be detected with the current state of the art measuring equipment.

2. what is your opinion on digitally-controlled tube preamps with EQ and multiple programmable voicings that let you radically switch from one tone to another, for example: the ADA MP-1, MP-2, behringer v-amp rackmount, etc.. ?!?!
www.behringer.com/v-amp2/virtualgear.html

Sorry, these are beyond my experience, I'm not the one to comment on them. But at a guess, I'd say that the only difference between this stuff and a VG (or at least, the biggest difference) would be that the VG is all solid-state, whereas you mentioned tube-based rigs.

I can guarantee you that any VG-8 or VG-88 can make sound switches just as radical, or more so, as the best tube thingie you can name. QED. ;D


sumgai