H-S-H wiring options with push/pulls

[humbuckr]

unkmickey suggested that I start a new thread on this topic. appreciate the feedback and the dynamics of this very healthy forum.

the skinny:
I'm shooting for an "elegant" 3 pickup rig that will offer great support for the main sounds I'm looking for.

desire sounds:
* articulate and detailed full bodied distortion for rhythm
* rich jazz tone
* single coil strat but not too tinny
* long but natural sustain that cuts through the mix on leads

harware:
* 5 way switch, looking at the megaswitch E-Model
* Push pull Volume
* Push/pull Tone

want to avoid any other switches.

Wiring options:
my head is kind of spinning after reading the thread:
guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=1162273527

it seems like taste in pickup combinations is like taste in the opposite sex. I'm sure there's a "positions" pun in there somewhere but I should leave it alone

5 way positions that seem cool to me (from the thread) although I'm not sure how these jive with the tones I'm going for:

1. Neck HB in series
2. Middle SC with Neck split
3. MIddle with Bridge Split
4. Bridge HB in series/parallel
5. Neck and Bridge HB in series

And with one of the push/pulls I'd like to be able to make the guitar think its a bit of a strat and open up single coil options.

Maybe I don't need 2 push pulls although it would seem cool to have 1 push/pull handle coil splitting and the other handle the series/parallel thang.

complexity:
the older I get the more I shy away from lots of switches, etc. when I'm playing live i can barely handle my 3 way switch and podXT live ;D

the "J5" (my custom project)
* 25.5" compound radius warmoth neck (mahagony, ebony)
* maple/mahagony/maple body - chambered with a very cool f-hole concept
* pickups at this time, SD JB, 59' and standard strat SC

I'm a total wiring newbie and at this time I can't offer much to this great bunch of guitar nuts so I humbly appreciate any discussion, schematics and really dumbed-down thoughts you guys might have.

[humbuckr]

I've been thinking about this a lot and I think a better way to approach this is a bit like the thinking on the big-ugly post:
guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=schem&thread=1139268111&page=1#1139268111

What I think would be cool is to have 3 sets of sounds available via the push pull

set up is still
5 way selector, H-S-H with 1 volume, 1 tone (push/pull)

- the first set out sounds would be the "go to" use most of the time sounds.
- the next 5 would be with the push/pull UP and would be the guitars single coil personality
- the last 5 with the push/pull DOWN and the guitars thick sound personality. seems like a cool way to do sound options to me.

would be interested to get your feedback on the sound sets. here's my first take:

"go to" set:
1. Neck HB in series
2. Middle SC with Neck split
3. Middle with Bridge Split
4. Bridge HB in series
5. Neck and Bridge HB in series

single coil set (push UP) (I'm lost on these latter two)
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

series/parallel / thick set (push DOWN)
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.

[UnklMickey]

hi Humbuckr,

i think you misunderstand how a push-pull works. it's either up or down, just 2 positions.

you can't necessarily get a completely different set for the 5-way just by changing positions.

one thing that you could do is have a series/parallel switch at the system level (how it connects 2 pickups that are selected by the 5-way).

another thing a push-pull could do is split one, or both of the series connected HBs.

while you CAN use a push-pull to do series/parallel on an individual pickup, that makes it so it can't be split.

i'm getting ready to split for the weekend, but there are others who are active on the weekend who can help shape the direction of this. maybe even get you to the point of a complete diagram.


cheers,

unk

[humbuckr]

Thanks for not flaming my ignorance on the push/pull thang

It seemed a little too good to be true to have 3 sets of sounds. I think the two bank idea would be worth exploring, perhaps a megaswitch, a push/pull tone and a DPDT switch?

-- humbuckr



220, 221 whatever it takes

[UnklMickey]

humbuckr said:

Thanks for not flaming my ignorance...

naw, we don't do that with newbies. we wait until you get settled in and comfortable.
..........THEN we let ya have it with both barrels! ROFLMAO

since ya brought up the megaswitch issue, they are great switches, but you can't get the one that does what a superswitch does. at least not in the U.S.

megaswitch M is available in Germany from Rockinger or EYB.

stewmac does have the E model you mentioned, but that isn't as versatile. there is some 'pre-wiring' built into the traces on the board. we might be able to come up with something good using the E model, but no guarantees on that.


unk


BTW, that has to be the absolute best line in Mr. Mom!

[Mike Richardson]

I have an HSH diagram around here someplace. It's pretty cool. If I can find it, I'll post it.

[bjwarshaw2]

Since this is related, is there a diagram floating around of H-S-H with a 5-way and a push/pull volume (or tone) to switch the hummies between series/parallel?

[Mike Richardson]

bjwarshaw2 said:

Since this is related, is there a diagram floating around of H-S-H with a 5-way and a push/pull volume (or tone) to switch the hummies between series/parallel?

Mine offers the following tones. In the first "mode", you get: Bridge HB, Bridge Parallel, Both HB, Neck Parallel, Neck HB. In the other "mode", you get Bridge SC, Bridge SC+Middle, Bridge SC+ Neck SC, Middle+ Neck SC, Neck SC. All multiple-coil positions are humbucking.

[humbuckr]

chikn said:

bjwarshaw2 said:

Since this is related, is there a diagram floating around of H-S-H with a 5-way and a push/pull volume (or tone) to switch the hummies between series/parallel?

Mine offers the following tones. In the first "mode", you get: Bridge HB, Bridge Parallel, Both HB, Neck Parallel, Neck HB. In the other "mode", you get Bridge SC, Bridge SC+Middle, Bridge SC+ Neck SC, Middle+ Neck SC, Neck SC. All multiple-coil positions are humbucking.

thanks! look forward to seeing the diagram. were you able to do this with 1 volume, 1 tone and a single switch?

Are you pleased with the range of sounds that you are able to get?

[UnklMickey]

humbuckr said:

...Are you pleased with the range of sounds that you are able to get?

i'd hafta say that looks like a very good palette!

you have single coils sounds in a standard Strat arrangement, except for the "tele" upgrade in the middle.

and you also get the 3 LP sounds plus each of the HBs configured in parallel.


i drew this up, but it doesn't have the option of HBs in parallel.

i'm hoping John, or someone might check it for errors.



cheers,

unk

[humbuckr]

i'd hafta say that looks like a very good palette!

I'd say more of a feast!

you have single coils sounds in a standard Strat arrangement, except for the "tele" upgrade in the middle.

and you also get the 3 LP sounds plus each of the HBs configured in parallel.

Unbelievable. not sure that I can say thanks enough
Clarification - this is all done using push/pulls on the 1 volume, 1 tone and 1 5-way selector switch???#@$@#$@#

i drew this up, but it doesn't have the option of HBs in parallel.

do HB's in parallel sound much different than serial? regardless it seems like this setup can support sounds from a bell-like strat to a raw crunch. unbelievable!

i'm hoping John, or someone might check it for errors.

cheers,

you got it. let me know what you like to have in your glass.

[UnklMickey]

humbuckr said:

...do HB's in parallel sound much different than serial? ...

Absolutely!

I'm very interested in seeing Mike's drawing when he posts it. seems like the way you would probably want to go.

the main thing mine does, that his doesn't, is the 2 (local series) HBs in series with each other (system series). a very dark, powerful sound.

IMHO, the 2 Parallel HB combos his offers, are probably a better choice.

at any rate, John was logged on today, so that's a good sign.

he usually takes his time, when proofreading one of my drawings, so within a day or two, we might have an answer.

so we will have at least a 'quite good' scheme you can use, or if Mike finds and posts his, a great scheme.

BTW, i'm fairly certain from Mike's description, he's only using 1 switch (in addition to the superswitch), not 2.

[humbuckr]

Thanks for the ergs. from the number of posts you do I feel very lucky to get a slice of your time.

Question - I've poked around a little on 'star grounding'. Does the schematic you provided have this already or is this a mod that has its own configuration.

thanks
-- Carl

[UnklMickey]

i made the drawing without concern for star grounding.

if you want to put together a cut and paste drawing of the pots and switches, the way they will be oriented in your control cavity, i'll "wire" them, and indicate the correct connections for star grounding.

[JohnH]

Unk - I only just noticed your diagram. Sometimes when I log in away from my home pc, the diagrams dont come up. Im happy to check it, might take a day or two

John

[JohnH]

Unk - a great concept, but a couple of issues to sort out in position 4, which I am sure you will be able to fix:

the '-' end on the middle pup is not connected in position 4,

and in parallel mode, the + end of the Bridge north coil is connected to both hot and ground.

cheers
John
ps, could you pl check my 2 volume Strat diagram?

[UnklMickey]

thank you John,

i've corrected the drawing, and i'll have a look at yours.



cheers,

unk

[phy7ajw]

I've done a similar thing with an HSH guitar to switch it between 2 modes, humbucker (HH) and single-coil (SSS). It's not got all the sounds you could go for like unklmickey's but you might like the simplicity. Have a look at www.alloutput.com/Wiring/hsh_wiring.html

Don't think you can do it with a push/pull switch though as I used a 4PDT switch...

[humbuckr]

I'm back after a few months of looking for a job

I posted some drawings of the layout of the knobs, pickups, control cavity etc on my blog.

humbuckr.blogspot.com/

please let me know if this is the kind of info that's needed to help determine the wiring schematic.

thanks for all the help and sorry to go dark for so long.

[CheshireCat]

humbuckr said:

I'm back after a few months of looking for a job

I posted some drawings of the layout of the knobs, pickups, control cavity etc on my blog.

humbuckr.blogspot.com/

please let me know if this is the kind of info that's needed to help determine the wiring schematic.

thanks for all the help and sorry to go dark for so long.

Hey, how are you doing?

I like the work you've done on your blog, with your guitar designs. Nice. I like the F-Holes, especially the segmented one. In fact, I have another F-Hole for you that you might like. I'll see if I can post it. (Found it.)



As for a wiring schematic, I'm not sure if you've seen mine, but it might give you just what you need. It's designed to have every combination, and only require some three to four controls, depending on what you want. It's also meant to be highly intuitive, where each of the options are either on or off. No need to "patch" anything in, with odd and arbitrary combinations of esoteric switches.

Here is a recent version of it:



Now, if you'll notice, it doesn't show two seperate splitters. I came up with a Universal Splitter that allows you to select between SSS, SSH, and HSH, all with one switch. Also, while it's a triple throw, because the SSS and HSH options are at the ends, you can treat it like a double throw, and then if you want to hang out in shredder mode for a while, you can just park it in the middle on the SSH option.

Now, another innovation is a Universal Phase Inverter, which is pictured. That will phase invert your sound no matter which combo is selected. No missing combos, and no more than one switch to do it, like juggling two to three different individual phase inverters to get the right combo to get that option. You just either turn it on or off, and it automatically inverts.

The Heart of the System is the five way blade SuperSwitch and the Mode Switcher. With that, you either get all the regular Strat options in one mode, and all the missing options in the other mode, with both series and parallel wiring incorporated into the options. This is the most intuitive approach that I've yet seen. On positions two and four, when you switch modes, it toggles the N/M and M/B combos from parallel to series, which is easy to remember. In the other three positions, you get an ALL3 in series, and both of the N/B combos in series and parallel.

Ultimately this gives you the most bang for your buck that I've seen so far.

What do you think?

Chesh

[humbuckr]

Chesh

What do I think? I think I'm in over my head since I've never wired a guitar before (ok - I swapped out my stock ephipone LP pickups with SDs and it actually works)

I like your ideas since I don't want any switches on the face. just 1 volume and 2 push/pull tone pots with a 5 way switch. I will have to study your thread more to see how it works.

I love the mid-ish crunch on my 59' in the bridge on the epi but it gets old and I miss the SC bell tones of my 71 strat (which is very thin sounding compared to modern strats). that's why I'm trying to get it all with my project guitar!!!

I would like to wire up and elegant way of getting the most common sounds as I will have no freakin idea how to debug a complicated wiring schematic

Would like to talk more. If you want schematics of the guitar on the blog I can send to you. i think its drop dead gorgeous although I'm concerned I don't have enough wood hanging on to the neck...

--
Carl

[humbuckr]

phy7ajw said:

I've done a similar thing with an HSH guitar to switch it between 2 modes, humbucker (HH) and single-coil (SSS). It's not got all the sounds you could go for like unklmickey's but you might like the simplicity. Have a look at frosty.dbsclan.co.uk/Wiring/hsh_wiring.html

Don't think you can do it with a push/pull switch though as I used a 4PDT switch...

Great site. you put a lot of thinking into this. question - besides having the dual personality guitar did you fool with finding unique ways to blend/merge the two guitar sounds?

[CheshireCat]

humbuckr said:

Would like to talk more. If you want schematics of the guitar on the blog I can send to you. i think its drop dead gorgeous although I'm concerned I don't have enough wood hanging on to the neck...

Go ahead and send the link. Sounds interesting.

[humbuckr]

i'm not able to post the 'link' since I can't upload it to the blog but I could email you an "svg" file. i'm using a program called inkscape (like adobe illustrator) do design the body.

inkscape.org - its an open source program and very powerful for designing things with curves, layers, etc.

let me know

---
Carl

[guitarist]

Hi this is exactly what I'm looking for (unklmickey's diagram), but can someone please interpret the schematic a bit regarding to the physical DPDT switches and the sides of the superswitch?

Is this right?:
a and b are the Superswitch top
c and d are the bottom.

The left switches are the same DPDT and the right go together.

Thanks.