Just a quick checkover before i begin

[tog]

Basically i'm just wondering if someone can check this over for me before i go and buy all the parts and build it.

Basically i'm wiring a strat. Three humbuckers, three tone pots(Push pull pots too to act as coil taps), one volume pot and a neckon switch. Otherwise just using the normal 5 way switch.

A very helpful person from another forum made me a diagram but i just wanted to ask a few questions and thought i may as well get this checked too.



I also wanted to ask about shielding, i'm not sure exactly how it's done, Is it just stickyback foil tape in the cavity and back of the scratchplate or is there more to it than that?

Also are there any other minor mods anyone would recommend adding, what i'm really going for with this guitar is a wide range of tones. Also are there any other precautions i should be observing besides the usual electrocution risks

Thanks

[JohnH]

Hi Tog, welcome to GN2

Your diagram is clear, and would work. The parts are fine but I think the wiring can be inproved:

1. The best thing to change is to get the middle pup, so that when set to coil-cut mode and combined with other coil-cut pups, gives you a hum-cancelling combination, which currently it would not do. To do this, with the design that you have, on the middle pup, swap red and black wires, and swap green and white wires

2. The tone controls are shown unconventionally, where turning clockwise will cut the treble. To fix this, connect the caps to the right lugs rather than the left lugs.

3. When you turn down the volume on most guitars, the tone changes and high treble is reduced. To correct this, put a 1nF capacitor and a 220k resistor in parallel between centre and left lugs on the volume pot. This cap is a 'treble bleed capacitor', it bleeds extra treble from the pups to compenaste for loss caused by capacitance in the cable to the amp. The values are subject to personal taste. In addition to a 1nF cap, you might try a 470pF cap instead, and maybe without the 220k resistor. I'm suggesting getting both values so you can try them.

4. Put a wire from the ground to the metalwork of the bridge

BTW, the wiring colours are consistent with Seymour Duncan pups. If you have DiMarzio or another make, colours may need to be adjusted to suit.

With your design, you have the chance to use different tone caps for different pups, you may want to experiment.

The next changes are not so dramatic, and may not even be noticeable.

5. On this forum, we try not to cause shunting of pickups, by short-circuiting coils. The risk is that this induces currents that suck tone. Your diagram does coil cuts by this method, as do 99% of coil-cuts in the world. But there is a better way to select the coils that you want without short-circuiting the other coils. It's the same switches required. Someone may be able to point to a diagram of this on the forum.

6. The final change would be to take all ground points to a central ground at the volume pot, to avoid ground loops, for the purpose of reducing noise. This would mean not soldering to the back of all the pots, only the volume pot. It would need a redraw of the daigram.

The shielding is important, it can be copper foil, or even kitchen foil glued with contact glue. But it needs to be electrically continous, and grounded once at the volume pot (which will happen automatically by contact with it's case). Cover the back of the pickguard, and the rear of the cavity, folded up over the top slightly so that it contacts the pickguard shielding when screwed down

For grounding and shielding, it is worth reading the original 'GuitarNuts' site, see link at top of this page. Look for the article in the wiring section on 'Quieting the Beast'

There you go - and hey, this is the place for guitar wiring!

John

[tog]

Wow thanks, this is all useful

Basically the guy who did it did the pots backwards as he took them from a different perspective ie. Top down/up and he explained his wiring colours and such.

You said the values of the capacitors 1nF and 470pF were up to personal taste, whats the differance between them tone-wise?
Also how would i go about only soldering to the volume pot, I'm a tad confused there about what you mean.

For the grounding, i'm thinking of using kitchen foil for the body and stickyback foil for the pickguard, I can get more foil for the body so should i?


Thanks for all the help, i'll post pictures and clips when i'm done (probabily next month) and i'll scour this site for information about coil tapping. Thanks very much for all your help.

[gfxbss]

tog

as far as the caps go, everyone has a different perspective on a certain tone. your best chance is to just try each and decide which you like best.
notice that your ground is looped from pot to pot. it is best to take all grounds to one pot. you would just solder them all to the pots shell. the caps and what not being soldered to the shell of each tone knob is fine, just take the ground wires all to the volume shell.

as far as the shielding goes. copper is better, but kitchen foil will work. you dont need to get more unless you feel that you need. it.

also, the coil tapping....

here is a schem of a guitar that i did a while back w/ the help of john and unk. not extactly the way you have it wired, but it does have the coil taps.

guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=1165809595

good luck and i look forward to seeing the pics.

Tyler

[sumgai]

tog,

Hi, and to the forums.

I'm surprised that no one has yet pointed you to the article that started it all: "Quieting the Beast" Therein, you'll see adhesive backed copper foil being used, but as already noted, some folks get along just fine with regular kitchen aluminum foil. (Not for the ham-handed like me, it tears too easily.

There are no 'one-size-fits-all' mods here, only a lot of things that people have done for themselves, then shared with the rest of us. Many circuits have been used over and over, and are popular. They lead to still other mods, so the options are almost endless.

Since you have a Strat with a full-face pickguard, I might offer one bit of advice: Buy a cheap pickguard, and cut it apart such that the pickups can be held steady, but the controls are exposed - you can pick the control portion out and turn it over to work on it, yet the pickups will stay under the strings. This will let you make mods without having to unstring your axe every 5 minutes. ;D Afterwards, toss out the cut-up pickguard, or set it away for future other modding adventures.

HTH


sumgai

[tog]

Ah right i see what you mean by the ground loops but i'm afraid i dont understand the alternate tapping method or what it offers.

I have a custom strat pickguard gold and black, The guitars looks is going to be very odd and mismatched which is what im going for.

[JohnH]

Hi Tog - Ill hunt down a diagram for that coil tapping later when I get home, or draw one if I cant. THe differnt treble bleed values sound the same at full volume (they dont function then), and the higher the cap value, the more treble is kept as your reduce volume. Too igh and the treble becomes too dominant. Some folk like to have a brighter tone when you turn down, but I like to pick them to be a constant as possible. It also depends on your pickups and your cable.

John

[JohnH]

Tog

Here is how I'd suggest wiring the pickups to the push/pull tone controls:



This represents the bridge and neck pups. As noted before, for the middle pup, swap red with black and swap white with green, for hum-cancelling single coil combos.

Note that there is no soldering to the tone pots, and the only wires that come from it are the ground wire (solder to back of vol pot), and the hot wire, which goes to your 5-way. You only need one half of the 5-way switch. The volume, output, neck-on etc would be as you have it.

Further to previous, if the pups come with an outer bare screen or braid, connect it to the star ground for shielding

cheers

John

[tog]

thanks everyone, I'll be buying the parts as soon as their in stock. i'll proto it, take pictures and solder asap

[tog]

Sorry. Just another quick question, For the tone Log pots or audio.
I was told log would be best but i just found something online stating the opposite,

[JohnH]

Either log or lin will work and will cover the same range of tones from max to min. But I think log is better for tone pots, to get the active part of the range better distributed around the turn of the knob.

BTW - I favour log for single volume pots (as you have), and lin for dual volumes as on a Les Paul

As to values, 500k would be normal in a set-up with humbuckers, for all pots

John

[UnklMickey]

hi Tog,

definitely LOG for standard 2 connection configuration of the tone pots.

just out of curiosity, where did you see something to the contrary?


cheers,

unk

[UnklMickey]

hey John,

both of our posts at 2:45pm...............and we seem to be in agreement too.

[tog]

I can't find it now but the Guitarfettish Ebay store is selling audio pots as Tone pots, I know at one point they sold both though.

[tog]

Alright, We're getting somewhere. All the parts are ordered, just need to pick up a few of the electronics bits and bobs sometime soon, I'll be building in about two weeks (or whenever they arrive) so nows the time for last minute advice, I'd be glad to listen if anyone has any.


edit: Also, Anyone got any info on the non-shunting coil taps?

[UnklMickey]

tog said:

...Also, Anyone got any info on the non-shunting coil taps?

guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=1145315219&page=1#1155342546

[JohnH]

My suggestion for coil taps without shunting is on the previous page - similar in principle, wired in with your tone controls.

John

[tog]

Pickups arrived, as did everything else. Just need to get this bit sorted

Can someone help me apply this to my diagram, It has me very confused?


note: this was sent with the pickups

[JohnH]

We want to help, but was this not clear:



You would have three of these, one for each tone control. The 'to selector switch' wires go where you currently have the red pickup wires ttached to left side of the 5-way. Ignor eth right side of the switch. For the middle pup, swap red with black and swap white with green, for hum-cancelling single coil combos.

see also previous page - if you update your diagram based on this, I will check it

John

EDIT just noticed your colours are different - what make are the pups?
EDIT EDIT the original diagram looks like Dimarzio colours, while your new pups look like Seymour Duncan colours? If so, no problem, colours need to change though - I can update my sketch if so

[tog]

they're GFS but for some reason im as confused as hell, I think they're like seymour duncans, the white and red wires came joined.

[JohnH]

OK, on my diagram, top to bottom on your neck and bridge pups:

black, red/white together, green

On you middle pup, top to bottom

red, green/black together, white

bare screens go to the ground on the vol pot

does that enable you to change your digarm, using paint or someother program?

John

[tog]

i privated messaged you a picture to see if im anywhere near right

For everyone else:

Edit: Edited to include the treble bleed cap.

[JohnH]

tog - have sent you a rough version in a pm

John

[tog]

Thanks alot guys, It's been a while but i've finally got around to posting
The pickguard took two days to put together, namely because it's fiddly work and all the components were so small.

Now the body needs refinished but shielding went well, the diagrams worked perfectly, the range of tones on hand for me is amazing.



img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=31843736pa1.png

Now it doesn't look 100% yet, The body needs refinished and the tuners and bridge need replaced for gold ones, but this is it. Here's a picture mid construction.



img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=37681087gk9.png

A mad man friend of mine wants me to finish the body in that red velvet and spray laquer the hell out of it
But i've moved on to my next project which i'll be starting in a few months once i have exams out of the way.

[dd842]

tog said:

..... A mad man friend of mine wants me to finish the body in that red velvet and spray laquer the hell out of it .....

With fronds like that, who needs anemones?

Nice job on the guitar - very "regal" looking

Dan

[ashcatlt]

That is nice. You didn't mention which of the gfs pickups those are, but mine are awesome. I'm sure you'll be pleased.

I did want to clear up a little confusion from the first page, just in case somebody comes along and gets confused. Y'all really had me going for a minute...

The OP asked whether he should use audio or log pots for the tones. The answer to that question is simply: yes. Audio = Log in this instance.

Then everybody goes off - assuming a little too much of our friend's experience - and discussing the relative merits of Log vs Linear, which is a different discussion altogether.

[sumgai]

Ash,

The OP asked whether he should use audio or log pots for the tones. The answer to that question is simply: yes. Audio = Log in this instance.

Then everybody goes off - assuming a little too much of our friend's experience - and discussing the relative merits of Log vs Linear, which is a different discussion altogether.

Nice catch, the rest of us must have been down at the pub that day. +1 for you!


sumgai

[tog]

They are a set of GFS Lil killers, Absolutly brilliant. If i ever add them to another guitar i'll use concentric pots however, because i'd like to be able to have the tone knob at 250K as opposed to 500K. Other than that, it's perfect.

[tog]

I haven't be here in ages with exams and what not, but thanks again to everyone who helped out with the production. My soundcards not the best and i'm playing through a Marshall MG250Dfx (i know, but it was cheap) but you get the feel.

Single coil bridge, 4 distortion

www.tindeck.com/audio/my/ngvv/Rory


Humbucker bridge, 4 distortion

www.tindeck.com/audio/my/fott/Gunsand



There's not much variation here, but you hear it very well on a Marshall Tsl-100 or any tube amp for that matter.

So, What do you reccon, worth it for £170 (in total)

[JohnH]

Tog - congrats, I thought your crunch sounds from the Mg were very good. Horray for transistors!

cheers

John