is this mod possible?

[rod79]

HI folks, fantastic site.

Here's what i want to do:

i want to have 2 pickup combinations with one switch. im thinking an on-off-on switch or on-on-on switch.

before a go into this i better tell you what im trying to do

I want to be able to have
1. neck and middle on in series
2. middle and bridge in series
3. neck and bridge in series
4. neck middle and bridge in series

I have managed to get this already with 2 switches, one switch was a neck on and the other was a bridge on, so with both i could get all four sounds.

now im wondering if i could get all 4 sound using just one switch.

i thought if i could wire one throw of the switch to the middle pup and the other throw to the neck and bridge together. then id be ablle to acces all 4 sounds.

any help? maybe a need a fancier switch? get your thinking caps on boys! thanks

[ChrisK]

Hi,

Welcome a'board.

i want to have 2 pickup combinations with one switch. I'm thinking an on-off-on switch or on-on-on switch.

These are both three position switches.


Well, if you want four pickup combinations;

1. neck and middle on in series
2. middle and bridge in series
3. neck and bridge in series
4. neck middle and bridge in series

you have to use a switch with at least four different positions. This would not be an on-off-on switch or an on-on-on switch.

i thought if i could wire one throw of the switch to the middle pup and the other throw to the neck and bridge together. then id be able to access all 4 sounds.

This doesn't make any sense to me, especially for a series pickup structure (all three pickups in series like Christmas tree light bulbs). Assuming that one wire of one pickup coil is always connected to common, there are up to 5 coil wires that need to be switched. I need better definition as to what you mean.

A simple method is to wire all three pickups in permanent series a la' Brian May and short across the one desired to be off. This still takes a 4 position switch, but of only 2 poles. If you are using a lever switch (like that used on a Strat or Tele) there is a Tele 2 pole 4 position lever switch that will work.

If you do not want to short coils (there is no danger of damage to the pickups from this, just some tone/sustain loss), a 4 pole 5 position lever switch will possibly work. If you're going to use one of these, you might as well use the Mike Richardson wiring design and get 10 combinations. If you do so and do not use the DPDT push pull, you'll still get the following combos:

1. neck, middle, and bridge in parallel
2. neck and middle on in series
3. middle and bridge in series
4. neck and bridge in series
5. neck, middle, and bridge in series

guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=1153172741


What guitar type and switch type do you want to use for the single switch that selects four combinations?

[rod79]

thanks for taking the time to reply.

Im a beginner to all this stuff. I better take you back to the start and tell what i did.

First, i wired in a bridge on switch, using a 3pdt switch(on-off-on). Now i realise i would have been better just using a on-on or on-off switch.

It worked! and i thought cool, i can get new sounds. Now here's where i may be getting confused. I thought, if i put my 5way selector switch on the neck, then flick my bridge on switch, THEN, i would be getting N and B in Series(which is hot and louder like a humbucker right? parallel being quieter and softer)

Then, i though, if i put the middle pup on the 5 way, then hit the bridge on switch, then id be getting M and B in Series(again hot and louder like a humbucker)

Are you with me so far because my brain is struggling! ok

THEN, though, but thereare 2 sounds that im not getting,

1. N and M together in Series
2. N and M and B in series

So, i put in another switch in my guitar, the same as the first but this time it was a NECK ON switch.

Now with the N on switch and the B on switch i am able to get all 4 series combinations, which i will write again just for clarity

1. N and B in series
2. M and B in series
3. N and M in series
4. N and M and B in series

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Everything ok so far?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

So then i thought, i wonder if i could narrow all this down to one switch. I dont want to do it any other way with push pull pots or anything else, i just want one switch.

So i reasoned, if i could get something like a 3pdt or a more complicated switch i could asign M on(on one side of the switch) and N and B on together(on the other side of the switch)

That way, if i put the M on side of the switch on, i could then put either the N or B to get 1. N and M 2. B and M

Then if i flick the swith the other side to get N and B together, i could get 3. N and B 4. N and M and B(by selecting the M on the 5 way)

Wow!!!!!!!

[sumgai]

rod,

Hi, and welcome to the NutzHouse! ;D

If you want only the four combinations you've shown (twice now), then Chris's mention of a Tele 4-way blade switch is the ideal way to go.

However, if you're looking for other combos (and/or the individual selections) as well, then I'll have to admit to some confusion over your statement:

I dont want to do it any other way with push pull pots or anything else, i just want one switch.

Do you mean that you want everything on one switch, or that you are willing to accept one additional switch, beyond the stock 5-way blade already on your axe? The latter case is much easier to deal with, and you could do a lot worse than to consider Mike Richardson's layout (as linked by Chris, above).

If it truly is to be a single-switch solution (for more than four combos), then you can use a 10, 11, or 12 postion rotary switch, and be done with it. I'm sure that if you do opt to go this route, then Chris will be delighted to point you to a couple of threads that will give you what you want.

HTH


sumgai

[ChrisK]

I'm still confused. Most statements are less than specific. this one is good.

by selecting the M on the 5 way

First, i wired in a bridge on switch, using a 3pdt switch(on-off-on). Now i realise i would have been better just using a on-on or on-off switch.

Why did you use a 3PDT switch? How many (and which) wires are you switching?

I thought, if i put my 5way selector switch on the neck

Does this mean that you've set the 5-way switch to select the neck pickup?

Then, i though, if i put the middle pup on the 5 way

And this means that you've set the 5-way switch to select the middle pickup?

Now with the N on switch and the B on switch i am able to get all 4 series combinations, which i will write again just for clarity

1. N and B in series
2. M and B in series
3. N and M in series
4. N and M and B in series

While I fully understand what you state in combinations, and assume that the use of 3 poles on your additional switches enable you to switch the respective pickups in series with the standard 5-way switch and pickups selected thereon, I don't have a good understanding of what you did exactly. Do you have a wiring diagram or schematic?

So then i thought, i wonder if i could narrow all this down to one switch. I don't want to do it any other way with push pull pots or anything else, i just want one switch.

I assume that this is a given.

So i reasoned, if i could get something like a 3pdt or a more complicated switch i could assign M on(on one side of the switch) and N and B on together(on the other side of the switch)

That way, if i put the M on side of the switch on, i could then put either the N or B to get 1. N and M 2. B and M

Then if i flick the switch the other side to get N and B together, i could get 3. N and B 4. N and M and B(by selecting the M on the 5 way)

This is confusing. I suspect that you want to use the standard 5-way AND a single other switch.

It seems that you want the additional switch to leave the pickups available in the traditional parallel switching (B, B+M, M, M+N, N) scheme in its center position.

In its one side position, you want the middle pickup to series drive the remaining bridge or neck pickup as selected by the standard 5-way switch for M*B and M*N.

In its other side position, you want the bridge and neck pickups combined in series, to series drive the remaining middle pickup as selected by the standard 5-way switch for B*N*M, or to series drive no other pickup (the 5-way is set to bridge or neck) for B*N.

This isn't all that easy to do since several switching poles will be needed (at least four) in a XPDT center-ON switch. Sounds like a job for a rotary switch.


Just as a matter of confirmation, the way that pickups are usually (factory) selected on the 5-way (B, B+M, M, M+N, N) is parallel.


If you only want these four series combinations, this can be done with a Tele 4-way 2 pole lever and NO OTHER SWITCHES or a 5-way 4 pole super-switch with a DPDT for 10 really good combinations (the Mike Richardson thing).

This is what it does ("+" is parallel, "*" is series):

Mode switch down
1. Bridge
2. Bridge + Middle
3. Bridge + Neck
4. Middle + Neck
5. Neck

Mode switch up
1. Bridge + Middle + Neck
2. Bridge * Middle
3. Bridge * Neck
4. Middle * Neck
5. Bridge * Middle * Neck


Wiring the tone controls as shown really helps in the series modes. Adding the phase switches really helps overall.

[rod79]

sorry folks, ive been as clear as rolling both tone pots down and the volume control on a strat to 5. more muddier than a muddy pile of mud on a planet of mud...

Im a strat man, and i want to keep my standard 5 way blade. i just want to add one more switch to get the extra 4 series sounds. ive checked out a lot of stuff and i quite like the look of deaf-eddies switches(www.deaf-eddie.net)

i might end up goin for one of them. but before that i want to find out if what i want is possibe. the thing is, even if i find out it is possible, i might not use it! i just really want to know if its possible, as it would be a great mod, and i could use on other guitars.

So yeah, just want to add a switch to a stock strat to get those 4 series sounds. I hope thats making sense.

i know i could get it other ways, i mean , ive done it already with 2 switches, i just thought some of you clever blokes could work this out

where thers a will there a way! Thanks for replying, you guys are much apreciated.

now can anyone come up with a plan?!!

we should make this the guitarnuts2 2007 wiring challenge! what could we give for a prize?

[rod79]

HI, ChrisK.
The reason i used the 3pdt switch is because previously i tried the brian may 3 switch mod on the guitar nuts site.

These have 6 lugs, is that what u call them lugs?

then i started experimenting. anyway, i found a really simple neck on schematic that used 2 lugs on one side of the 3pdt switch.

one wire went to the hot lug of the 5 way and the other went to the neck lug of the 5 way, really simple.

with the neck on switch i can get 3 extra sounds

1. N*M
2. N*(M+B)
3. N*B

the other 2 positions on the 5 way dont do anything

------------------------
So then i thought id do another switch exactly the same but for the bridge

with the bridge on i can get 3 sounds(one of which is a duplicate- B*N)

1. B*M
2. B*(M+N)
3. B*N(duplicate)

but now if i put both switches on and put the 5 way onto the middle pickup
i get one extra sound

1. N*M*B
------------------------------------

so all together, i get 5 stock sounds + 6 extra

1. N
2. N+M
3. M
3. M+B
5. B
6. N*M
7. N*(M+B)
8. N*B
9. B*M
10. B*(M+N)
11. N*M*B

hope that rolls the tones back on and the voume up to 10(on a strat of course)

[sumgai]

rod,

Nope, sorry, you've only turned the knobs completely down past 1, like -1 or sumpin'.

To be exact, while trying to not be a hardass, what you're asking is for a circuit that can do such-and-such, and we're only too happy to help. But by "laying the foundation" of all you've done prior to now, you're confusing the issue. It's not really germane to the conversation that you wired up X switch, and got Y combination. All we really need to know at this moment are 'how many switches and what type, and which pickup combinations do you want'. From that, we can give you the goods.

Sorry, but I'm trying to cut down the time I spend de-chaffing the wheat! ;D



sumgai

[rod79]

Sumgai, i like your style , lets get down to it!

("It's not really germane to the conversation that you wired up X switch, and got Y combination.")

Sorry, i just thought id try to answer ChrisK's question ("Why did you use a 3PDT switch? How many (and which) wires are you switching?")

as best i could with as much detail as poss, better to have more info than less, then you wont have to ask more questions you see

---------------------------------------
Im sure you all know what it is im trying to do by know, so i better not regurgitate it all again, ill just edit the very first post i wrote if thats ok
----------------------------------------

i want to have 2 pickup combinations with one switch*as well as having my stock 5 way switch*. im thinking an on-off-on switch or on-on-on switch.

before a go into this i better tell you what im trying to do

I want to be able to have
1. neck and middle on in series
2. middle and bridge in series
3. neck and bridge in series
4. neck middle and bridge in series

I have managed to get this already with 2 switches, one switch was a neck on and the other was a bridge on, so with both i could get all four sounds*using the 5 way switch also*.

now im wondering if i could get all 4 sounds using just one switch*and the 5 way together*.

i thought if i could wire one throw of the switch to the middle pup and the other throw to the neck and bridge together. then id be ablle to acces all 4 sounds*together with the 5 way*.

any help? maybe a need a fancier switch? get your thinking caps on boys! thanks
*i play a stock strat*

[zamzara]

I would get a 4 pole 5 way superswitch, which is visually identical to the standard 5 way once in place. Then with one extra DPDT you can use the Mike Richardson scheme. If you want to keep the middle pickup only, it's possible to replace "all 3 in parallel" with middle only by moving a couple of wires, which is what I changed mine to.

[rod79]

Thanks zamzara, and thanks Chris and Sumgai too.

I think im gonna go with the Mike Richardson thing as it seems perfect for what i want.

As i said to Chris, id still be interested to see if what i wanted is possible, but dont make it a priority. We can call it a day with this post and get on with our lifes!

But if anyone wants to keep running with this feel free, as i said im still interested. Cheers guys