dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Jul 19, 2007 13:27:43 GMT -5
Hi folks.. I finally have spare time and was going to finish Quieting the Beast mod in my squier strat. I took off the pickguard and started examining all the wiring. It seems to me, that there are no ground loops (my experience is fair modest lol) and it's missing a "connection" on the 5-way switch (it´s a sss strat). There is one but on the side of the switch. In all of the wiring diagrams I have seen, nothing matches my guitar (totaly). (Almost) all of the connections are different (i mean the order). I was also considering changing middle tone control to bridge but the switch is a bit strange. I'm afraid of losing my baby ;D My main problem is.. I don't know a lot (nothing lol) about this and I don't know how to apply the mods in this case. Any help? EDIT: In my next post you have the wiring diagram
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guitaristz
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Post by guitaristz on Jul 19, 2007 13:34:19 GMT -5
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guitaristz
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Post by guitaristz on Jul 19, 2007 13:36:21 GMT -5
also check out www.guitarfetish.com They have some really awesome pickups for great prices that are just perfect for upgrading squier strats, etc. I have bought over 3 sets from them, and also a bunch of other stuff, and am very very pleased. The wiring isnt hard at all...if I were you, check out the diagrams on www.seymourduncan.com click support and then wiring diagrams I think. Those diagrams are easy to read and easy to relate to what you see under your pickguard.
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Jul 19, 2007 14:32:53 GMT -5
That's not the same switch lol. In mine, you have 7 connections in-line plus one in the side but i don't know if it's something related. Also, there is nothing similar in the way pickups and pots are connected to the switch. My switch is wired like this: Middle, Neck, Volume (+ 1 connection soldered), Middle tone, Neck Tone and then Bridge pickup. Probably it's only something i don't understand or my guitar is simply def lol. Anyway thanks a lot! EDIT: I've made it! That's my guitar^
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Post by ashcatlt on Jul 19, 2007 23:06:52 GMT -5
so as not to derail the thread i will make the obligatory on-topic statement:
That switch is weird, but appears to be doing the same thing as the one in guitaristz's post. the bridge pickup is wired on the same pole as the tone pots, but since the commons are tied, the effect will be identical. I think either the final lug has been removed or the switch was custom designed to omit it as superfluous. My guess is that the lug on the side of the switch is the ground for the metal case.
Now to the main reason I'm posting. I've always found it amusing when people say things like "over 3 sets..." You mean, like 4? I understand that in this case it might mean 3 sets and some singles or something, but you'll catch them saying these kinds of things on infomercials and home shopping all the time. "Over 5 million" I can dig, we're rounding off, but "Over 17?" Aw well....
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Post by sumgai on Jul 20, 2007 4:53:26 GMT -5
Gotta go with ash on this one, the lower "half" is missing a terminal. One big clue, and one obvious deduction...... The volume pot wire from the hot lead still goes to two terminals in the middle of the line. If you were to number from top to bottom, that would be numbers 4 and 5, and terminal number 8 is missing. But if the guitar had been wired with the tone control wires going to numbers 6 and 7, and the pickup wires going to 2 and 3, then it would all make sense much more quickly. I still say, despite gazillions of these things being extant in the wild, they are nothing more than accidents looking for a place to happen! And you know it will be at a gig where there's serious money involved - we have Mr. Murphy just to make sure of things like this! Both of you, get yourselves to a store of high repute, and demand a good quality switch. Oak or Centralab are about the best, but a few others also exist for under 10 bananas. The web is proliferate with them too, if that's the better avenue for you. HTH sumgai
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hugh
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Post by hugh on Jul 20, 2007 6:25:49 GMT -5
Now to the main reason I'm posting. I've always found it amusing when people say things like "over 3 sets..." You mean, like 4? I understand that in this case it might mean 3 sets and some singles or something, but you'll catch them saying these kinds of things on infomercials and home shopping all the time. "Over 5 million" I can dig, we're rounding off, but "Over 17?" Aw well.... I smiled when I read it, too. Then I thought for a second.. and realized he means some singles and stuff. I've bought from GFS several times, and have read lots of rave reviews of their stuff. Its good quality, great value for your buck, and the customer service is top notch. Word of mouth is how these guys make it... so I'm always happy to open mine. So yeah, that was a funny statement... but I understand. [/ot]
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Jul 21, 2007 20:25:05 GMT -5
Yes.. I live in Portugal, web is a better place lol.
So.. 1º- Am i assuming right that there are no ground loops in my guitar? 2º- To finish applying QTB mod, what do I need to do? I just don't understand what to do with the ground thing! lol
More info: The volume pot is a 500k B and the tones are 500K A. The C1 says "473K 100V". Does it help?
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Post by JohnH on Jul 21, 2007 21:20:55 GMT -5
dsrb - your diagram is unusual, with its 7-lug switch, and also mixing the tone side of the switch with the bridge pup. But it clearly works and functions like any normal Strat. To follow QTB, Id suggest soldering the tone cap, not to the back of R3 but instead to the back of R1, along with the other grounds. Otherwise, it would rely on the pot touching the foil on the pickguard for tone ground.
With that done, and foil over the cavity, lapped a bit over the top, and under the pickguard, it should all work out fine with no further wiring. The foil gets grounded by contact with the volume pot. Doing all that will give you the noise reduction of QTB, but not the extra safety cap, which is an extra feature. Did you intend to do that also?
Theres no ground loops there.
The 500k B pot is linear and the 500kA are log, all good choices IMO. the 473k tone cap is 47,000pF = 47nF = 0.047uF, a normal choice for a Strat tone cap, but many prefer a smaller value such as 0.022uF.
John
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Jul 22, 2007 9:19:50 GMT -5
"but not the extra safety cap, which is an extra feature. Did you intend to do that also? " It's only necessary if I play with old tube amps right? or is it something you can't live without? "0.047uF, a normal choice for a Strat tone cap, but many prefer a smaller value such as 0.022uF." What's the diference in the tone? And in security? (don't play with electricity! ;D) I'll be known in Hollywood by "the guy with the strange switch" lol
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Post by JohnH on Jul 22, 2007 15:42:27 GMT -5
The safety cap, 0.33 in the QTB mod, is intended to reduce a dc jolt if a bad old tube amp fails in a very unexpected way. Im not aware of any commercial guitars that have this, and it doesnt do much against ac. You should read posts by Sumgai and ChrisK to get an experienced perspective on this.
The tone cap has no safety issues. 0.047 and 0.022 sound the same at max treble, while at reduced treble, the 0.047 will start to cut from a lower frequency. Its personal choice
John
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Post by ChrisK on Jul 22, 2007 17:16:04 GMT -5
Squier wiring diagram: www.squierguitars.com/pdf/diagrams/SquierStandardStrat0DE3.pdfWe surmise that this switch must be missing an appendage. If this is indeed the cheap box import switch i37.photobucket.com/albums/e84/cekikta/Wiring/Modules/5wayIMPORTschemMOD.jpgthen some issues arise with the way that it's wired. Assuming that the missing terminal is at the bottom of the switch in the pic for symmetry, based on the linked modified datasheet above, when the neck pickup is selected, so is the bridge. The following combos appear: 5. neck pickup + bridge pickup 4. neck pickup + bridge pickup + middle pickup + middle tone 3. middle pickup + middle tone 2. middle pickup + middle tone + neck tone 1. neck tone Now, if we pretend that this switch is really a StewMac MegaSwitch "E", What pic does the switch look like?
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Jul 22, 2007 18:00:21 GMT -5
MEGASWITCH! It looks like megaswitch.. but from YKE (?) I finaly manage to get photos: and: Is it good? The wiring diagram should be something like this right? Thanks guys! EDIT: I've included the wiring diagram.
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Jul 23, 2007 19:33:35 GMT -5
I will now start the mod. I'll let you know how it turns! Thanks a lot
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Post by ChrisK on Jul 24, 2007 17:48:11 GMT -5
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Jul 24, 2007 18:13:30 GMT -5
hmm.. Strange.. did you notice I can't use my middle pickup alone? And There is a neck + bridge pickup option.. cool lol. In this position I'll not have hum cancelling right? Both pickups will be in positive so there will be no "humbucker simulation" right? If this is correct, is there anything I can do to obtain 3 no-hum positions? Or is it a crazy idea for a newbie? Another cute thing: "Because the Original 'E' Model Megaswitch doesn't allow the middle pickup to be used by itself, you may want a tone control for the neck and bridge pickups. To do this, wire the lower tone pot's lead to lug 7 instead of lug 1." My guitar isn't wired like that... Maybe it's a Squier custom shop!lol I've soldered the tone cap to the back of R1 and I'm waiting new strings to test my wonderfull ultra-rare strange moded squier Thanks again for your patience! EDIT: Added the cute thing
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Jul 25, 2007 10:15:57 GMT -5
update: I've put new strings on my guitar. I hear a difference but I think something went wrong. When I touch the bridge or strings, there's a small (very very small) noise reduction. That's nothing compared to what my guitar was before, but I was expecting when I touch it I would not hear any difference. Should I shield the output jack cavity too? I like to play with gain on 10, can it be a source of the problem? (I'm crazy I know) Anyway, if my guitar remains like that, I've to thank you guys! I'm really happy with the results
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Jul 25, 2007 21:09:25 GMT -5
ok.. more updates. I don't know what have I done. I took off the pickguard an start examining the shield. Found a part without it. bla bla bla.. Sh*t. Then I took off the shield in all the pickguard and put a new one. Installed the pickguard normally and.. no QTB. It seems there isn't a path for the ground or something.. I don't know. I'm really freaking out because I'm only 17 and when my parents hear that I found usefull to throw away my only guitar.. Tell me, what does this mean? In my previous post my guitar sounded good..
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Post by sumgai on Jul 26, 2007 13:52:57 GMT -5
dsrb, I'm not ignoring you, I'm (just) letting the others who have been helping you regularly stay with their program. But since I'm here anyways........... It sounds to me like your biggest mistake is only that you've rushed things, and forgotten to make sure of certain critical details. In such cases, the cure is to go back over everything you did s - l - o - w - l - y. Even better, have a bestest bud come over and go through the process with you. Sometimes a second pair of eyeballs is the best way to find some little nitpicky thing that your eyes just "pass over" - you don't see it, for whatever reason. Details: If you did not use the 0.33µf capacitor in John Atchley's QtB article, then all grounds must meet up. Sounds simple-minded, but you'd be surprised at how many people blow it. Here's where your multimeter can keep you from going bald before you get outta school. (Say what? You don't have such a toy? But when you're a GuitarNut, you have to have one, it's in The Rule Book. If you don't have one now, drop what you're doing, and go get one. They're too cheap (less than a spliff), so just do it - you won't be sorry.) Don't rely on just your eyes to tell you that there's a connection, check it with the meter. If you're unsure as to how to do this, just ask, we can help with that too. But the bottom line to all this is, you need to take your time. At 17, I doubt that you have (yet) the experience of doing this every day. What that means is that you don't (yet) have the work habits of doing X, then Y, then Z, all in proper order. That comes only from the repeatedly doing the same things over and over, driling them into your mindset as you learn from your mistakes. Don't worry, you'll get it soon enough. ;D If you're able, find cheap junkers to practice on. Graduate to working over your bud's guitar(s). Move on to taking in work for other people (beyond your circle of friends), doing simple work for them. Don't forget to charge them a little bit, or they'll think that you're cheap. Don't tell them you're just practicing, they don't wanna hear that! After all that, you can sit down and confidently make any kind of modification without worries about whether or not it'll work. But that's not gonna happen overnight. I'd say, probably by the time you get outta school.... if you're still not bald! ;D ;D And to finish off....... when you touch your strings, you should notice a reduction in the noise/buzzing from your amp. How much? That does depend, but on an unshielded guitar, quite a bit. You already know how much that is, I'm sure. On a properly shielded guitar, the difference should be pretty small. That would mean that not much noise is getting in, in the first place. And that's a good thing - it means that you did the QtB job correctly! HTH sumgai
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Jul 26, 2007 14:42:38 GMT -5
Thanks for your answer sumgai I Think I'm having a bad luck wave or something. Now it's my amp.. when I turn it on, I have the most efficent QTB in the world. With or without guitar it doesn't work. Now to the guitar: I have wired my strat with the diagram I put on a previous post. Only soldering the tone cap to the back of R1. I took a piece of alluminium foil and with 3M glue spray, shield the body cavities. Everything fine. Then the pickguard. I couldn't take the pots off (it seemed they just don't wanted to leave the pickguard). I was afraid of doing something wrong, so nothing was done. Took off the pickups.. then alluminium foil. In controls "corner" of pickguard, I just glued some parts of foil making contacts between them. Installed the pickguard. Turned on the amp and the noise was there. Ok. How can I take knobs and pots off the pickguard? I thing the problem is there. Maybe the foil isn't connected or something. I think my switch is some strange little thing. When I'm on the 3rd position, it seems to me, that only the middle pickup works, like any regular strat. So maybe it isn't a megaswith. More tears: I'm going on vacations tomorrow and I'm not going to finish or try to finish the mod for 20 days. My amp is dead and i'm going to be too really soon. I don't have a multimeter (shame) but I'm going to get one, I promess. Thanks a lot to all
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guitaristz
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Post by guitaristz on Jul 28, 2007 13:01:12 GMT -5
I think I know whats wrong...your guitar is mad at you...
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Post by JohnH on Jul 28, 2007 16:16:13 GMT -5
If the switch is the one that came with the guitar, youd think that it is intended just to do tha usual B, BM, M, NM, N settings.
As to QTB, it gives a good improvement in noise reduction, but it doesnt get rid of all noise, expecially at very high gain. When you touch the strings, the biggest source of noise input (you) gets grounded, and that is why you get less noise.
How are the sounds? is the guitar still sounding OK except for noise issues? (maybe not, if the amp is having a bad day).
If your foil is patchy because it does not get under the pots, then it may explain some intermittently noisier performance. It really should go across the whole pickguard before pots and switches are put back on. The kitchen foil and spray glue makes a very neat job in that case. So to get those pots off, is the problem with the knobs? You have to decide that they are coming off, gently but firmly. It is a straight pull on a Strat knob. I find that I do this by wedging a thumb and two fingers evenly around the knob, trying to get them pressed between the knob edge and pickguard, then its a sort of prying/claw action to wedge the knob smoothly up. It has to be a straight pull, no bending of the pot shaft. The nuts to remove the pot require a correctly sized wrench or careful use of pliers, so as not to burr the nut or scratch the pg.
One thing to be reassured about: A guitar wiring is an inherently fairly simple thing, and its uncommon to break the parts permanently by doing wiring mods. As Sumgai says, its just a matter of working carefully and slowly.
John
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Post by sumgai on Jul 28, 2007 20:28:16 GMT -5
Best tool for this job? Your guitar pick, bar none. Use it as you would a screwdriver, and the knob will give up and slide off the shaft. It does have to be thick enough, yes, and sometimes you may need two of them on opposing sides, but they will not harm anything, no matter how much pressure you exert. If the pick breaks, that's better than a ruined knob or scratching/cracking the pickguard, no? And if you do break a pick or two, with no results from the knob, then it is time for the pliers, and the knob be damned. There are replacements available for sale, if need be. And don't go thinking that a screwdriver can fit under the knob's skirt, and no one will see the marks where you twisted it......... trust me, the marks will show, and a replacement scratchplate is a lot more expensive than a knob or two. Let alone the additional labor of transferring over the wiring harness. Let the picking begin! ;D HTH sumgai
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Aug 18, 2007 13:25:48 GMT -5
Hi all, I'm back. Thanks a lot for your answers.
Here we go.. I think my amp is really dead. I have solutioned parcially the problem by using my digital effects processor linked to an hi-fi. The sound sucks, but you know, it sounds. It seems, that with all the connections I have made between both (a lot believe me), I'm getting extra noise, so I can't fully test the guitar. The guitar.. knobs off and a new foil on the pickguard. It wasn't such a big deal as I though (thanks for the tips!). About the QTB.. now it's better, but not what I have acomplished before this dramatic thriller with my amp. In that time, I could have maximum gain on neck pickup with only a little noise. When I would like to change to other pickup, the QTB just faded away and then I decided to re-do the pickguard shield. Now, I've some noise reduction but not with the same efficience I had. What you guys think? Is it needed to shield the jack cavity too? Can something (like a pot or the switch) touching the foil do any difference? Any tests I can make to the guitar using the multimeter?
Thanks again
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Post by michaelcbell on Aug 18, 2007 14:49:34 GMT -5
I'll let the real experts fill in some of the cracks, but I'll say to use your multimeter to check continuity between all the pieces of your shielding, the trickiest it to make sure that the foil under your pickguard is contacting with the cavity shielding. That, I'll bet, or connectivity of the cavity shield to the jackplate is going to be your problem.
Gotta run.
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Aug 21, 2007 17:47:39 GMT -5
Good news! I prayed to the Gods, opened my amp, changed a fuse and voila! My amp was back to life again. He didn't like the world of death and bizarre things. Not so good news: I have checked and it seems to me that the two pieces of foil are in full contact. However there is no noticiable QTB. I'ld test with the multimeter if I had idea how to make it (shame on me). Is it needed to shield jackplate cavity too? If anything touchs the shield, can it be the cause of the problem? My mom is freaking out because my guitar is always dismantled: "you are gonna make a huge damage on your guitar, and then, no more guitars!" Bahh that's boring thanks a lot for your patience
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Post by sumgai on Aug 21, 2007 20:21:23 GMT -5
dsrb, Start out by reading this thread: Guitar Wiring Diagnosis, by ChrisK. If it doesn't make sense to you, you can ask questions either here or on that thread, you'll get the same high-quality help. ;D Normally the jack cavity can remain unshielded, it's a pretty small area. If you want to be thorough, yes, go ahead and do this area too. And herein lays the crux of our problem. If anything carrying the main signal touchs the shielding, then yes, the signal dies - the shield is grounded, so the signal is shorted to ground, and we all know what that means. And of course we're talking about bare wires touching where they shouldn't - a wire's insulation can touch the shield, that's OK. Parents have that annoying habit of pretending to be correct, don't let it get you down! ;D HTH sumgai
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Sept 7, 2007 15:42:06 GMT -5
Hi all (sorry for the last response, but I took a Conductor intensive masterclass for a week)
I tested the continuity in the shield and the multimeter says there is no problem in that.. Nothing is touching the shield and there is no problem with the signal. Noise? All there. Can my basement be a source of evil electro-magnetic radiation?
I've rechecked (again) the tutorial. There is one thing I haven't done. I didn't cut the wire between the tremolo claw and the volume pot neither attached it to the body. Is the problem here?
Thanks a lot for all the answers and for your patience
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dsrb
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Post by dsrb on Sept 13, 2007 8:34:37 GMT -5
Hi again.. I'm really needing your help. I just can't figure out what to do and Stephen Hawking doesn't teach this in his books. The evil strat is dismatled since June and I'm gonna need it to gig localy really really soon, so if anyone could help me I'ld be terribly pleased. Anyway if it doesn't happen, I'll re-install the pickguard and live with the noise for the rest of my life. Thanks a lot for the time wasted with me. You guys are great
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Post by sumgai on Sept 13, 2007 15:40:19 GMT -5
dsrb, If you are in a real, real, hurry, then skip all else, and put the guitar back together, as it is. Almost everyone here will tell you, if you rush through your job, you will not be happy with the results. As a beginner, there is no way to take a shortcut in things like this - you must take your time and be patient, and search in an orderly manner. By that I mean, you start with the first thing in the line, then the next, then the next, etc. You don't skip around and hope for a miracle, that only works for fools and young children. After your gig, you can attack the problem again, hopefully without another Master's Class to take up your time. HTH sumgai p.s. I'll ask my buddy Stephen to drop you a line, and give you some hints about fixing your guitar. ;D
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