Tele Super Strat Type Wiring

[vg3000]

Hello All!

I have a MIM Nashville tele (3 SC pups, 1 Vol, 1 Tone, 5 way Super Switch).

I hardly ever use the middle pickup, but for certain clean blues stuff I use the neck and the middle together.
I want to build the S-Tastic layout into it but with a push-pull (on the volume) to turn the middle pup on and off. I don't want to add any more controls or mini-toggles to the control plate.

Here's my question, There's just one more feature I would like to add to the switching and I'm a little lost as to how the S-Tastic works it's "out of phase". I would like to have the Neck and the Middle in series "out of phase". If I added another push-pull pot (@ the tone) to cut the bridge pickup (ground) would I get that with the current S-Tastic 5-way switching?

TIA

[ChrisK]

I have a MIM Nashville tele (3 SC pups, 1 Vol, 1 Tone, 5 way Super Switch).

Me too, although mine's gone a little berserk.

guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=1153502513

I hardly ever use the middle pickup, but for certain clean blues stuff I use the neck and the middle together.

Yeah, this is a deficiency of the Strat-O-Tele switching (marketing IS).

I want to build the S-Tastic layout into it but with a push-pull (on the volume) to turn the middle pup on and off.

Generally speaking, this would place the middle on in parallel with whatever is selected on the S-Tastic 5-way switch.

I'm a little lost as to how the S-Tastic works it's "out of phase".

The S-Tastic uses a four-pole switch and switches both leads from the neck pickup. As a result, phasing is simply a matter of connecting the neck leads to opposite points for out of phase.

I would like to have the Neck and the Middle in series "out of phase".

I have found that SOOP using the neck and middle to be the least harmonically interesting compared to using the bridge and middle or (certainly) the bridge and neck. I mostly prefer using the bridge, middle, and neck in series (a' la the Mike Richardson scheme) with either the bridge or neck out of phase with the other two.
guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=1153172741

The reason is that the middle and neck are too close in spacing ratio when compared to the bridge and middle or bridge and neck.

A simple example might be:
Distance from string bridge:
Bridge 1.5"
Middle 3.5"
Neck 6.0"

Ratio:
Bridge to middle 2.333
Bridge to neck 4.000

Middle to neck 1.714


Since OOP causes the signals to subtract/cancel (effectively), the more differences in harmonics between the pickups, the more unique the tone. In essence, OOP is really reversed phase (as in out of phase by 180 degrees).


That being said, if you still want middle SOOP with neck, I'll have to look at it a bit.

With one DPDT push pull, one could select between the following:

S-Tastic
N
N+B
N*B
-N*B
B

AND

M
M+B
M*B
-M*B
B


OR


N
N+B
N*B
-N*B
B

AND

N
N+M
N*M
-N*M
M


With two DPDT push pull switches, I "see" dead spots!

[vg3000]

Chris, I saw your toggle layout. Great stuff!

I guess the only reason way I want the SOOP with the neck and middle is that Brian May used this setting to get that bite on the Bohemian Rhapsody solo and says he really loves it with the amp overdriven, I just wanted to check it out.

I guess I could live with out it...

I really would only be using the tele mods the most and the Strat neck pup by itself and the Tele pup by itself. The middle pup would just be switched in for clean blues stuff (ala Robert Cray, SRV). I'm not really a big fan of that setting either but it's nice to have in a pinch and heck I have this Nashville Tele, why not have that middle pup do something once in a while? LoL

[ChrisK]

Ok!

Heck, this might help out in a number of pinches (don't get carried away unless yer with someone).

Since yer gonna have the "chest open" anyway.......

An S-Tastically Hyperventilated Teletype

(What, I think it's funny.)

[vg3000]

All I can say is if that works you are amazing...!

I mean that's everything you could possibly want out of a Strat/Nashville Tele period. You even have the middle by itself and you have the neck/mid in SOOP. Wow thank you sooooo much!

Now having the middle by itself I might have to upgrade that pup (I'm using that stock MIM white one they give you with it).

Question: Why do you prefer 500k pots over 250k's in there?

Years ago before I was tall enough to do my own soldering (LoL) I had a Jerry Jones Pager (black Dano clone with 2 lipstick pups). I gave it to my local guitar guy to do some mods to it like SOOP/parallel with push pull pots. When I got it back it was like a ice pick in the ear and in SOOP it had a really bad hum which I later found out was do to the guy not soldering the pup cover to ground.
I hated it and sold it... Damn I wish I knew what I know now. I would have never sold that guitar. It turned out that the guy put 500k push pull pots in it and that was why I got the ice pick in the ear tone.

[ChrisK]

Why do you prefer 500k pots over 250k's

!Because, a 500K audio pot is down to 250K at about "8"'ish!

This allows a little more brightness to occur before it's shunted to ground by them there high-cut tone controls. The Fender TBX is just a "normal" high-cut tone control from "5" to "0" and a diminishing resistance load (up to 1 Meg) from "5" to "10".

Low technology IS!

(You did know that the tone pots were adjustable betwixt "0" and "10"?) ;D ;D

For volume you can still use 250K, but 500K is the norm for humbuckers (think of it as being 250K in series with 250K for each coil in the series signal chain). Since we may be putting two AND three coils in series.................

[vg3000]

That's interesting that you say the SC's in series. The Dano clone (Jerry Jones) I had was wired with two in series and when the guy put 500k pots in it, after that it was like an ice pick to the ears.

Maybe it's due to the higher impedances of SC's over HB's (the SC's in HB's are of a lower impedance each than say combining to Strat pups to make a humbucker)?

[ChrisK]

(the SC's in HB's are of a lower impedance each than say combining to Strat pups to make a humbucker)

Yeah, generally.

Also, the single coil's do not share a common magnet structure which may (or may not) help.

I thought that lipstick pickups tended to be bright and "jangly" anyway (there's a definitive term if I ever didn't hear one).


I have the MIM Nash Power Tele(type ;D) and it has a stacked concentric 250K for volume and 500K for tone (or the reverse).

[vg3000]

chrisk said:

(the SC's in HB's are of a lower impedance each than say combining to Strat pups to make a humbucker)

Yeah, generally.

Also, the single coil's do not share a common magnet structure which may (or may not) help.

I thought that lipstick pickups tended to be bright and "jangly" anyway (there's a definitive term if I ever didn't hear one).


I have the MIM Nash Power Tele(type ;D) and it has a stacked concentric 250K for volume and 500K for tone (or the reverse).

Not really jangly, more like a strat pup in tone with an exception, the lipsticks are a little lower output than a strat pup, but higher than say a single coil out of a HB. Two in series (stock Dano wiring) have a higher output than a HB but at two ends of the spectrum (N*B). A really cool tone in and of itself (the basses are way cool).
This mode is like the ultimate "Twang" monster. You could really do away with the 3 way switch as really the only cool tone is the center, but that one tone is well worth the dime believe me.

I think I might use a 250k for the volume and a 500k for the tone. I might wire up the tone with a Fender "grease bucket". I've had some success with this in a P-Bass with an old paper in foil cap. The thing came alive like Frankenstein's monster after that mod.

;D