Wishful thinking Strat Mod

[omni]

Greetings,

I want to do a mod to my strat but I am not sure if it can be done? I am hoping someone from the group can help.

What is the best combination of sounds that I can get on a S-S-S strat with the following restrictions;

Replace the standard 5 position switch with a super-switch.

Replace only the standard middle tone pot with a push/pull pot.

Must have standard pickup combo's

Must have additional B+N and B+N+M combo's

Change middle tone pot to bridge/middle tone pot

Keep the 1 volume and 2 tone pot look.

Add the best sounding Series and OOP combo's

Thanks,
Omni

[ChrisK]

There are 18 possible combinations of three single coil pickups not considering phase.

1. B
2. B+M
3. M
4, M+N
5. N

6. B+N

7. B+M+N

8. B*M
9. B*N
10. M*N
11. B*M*N

12. B+(M*N)
13. M+(B*N)
14. N+(B*M)

15. B*(M+N)
16. M*(B+N)
17. N*(B+M)

18. ALL OFF

What is the best combination of sounds that I can get on a S-S-S strat with the following restrictions;

Replace the standard 5 position switch with a super-switch.

Replace only the standard middle tone pot with a push/pull pot.

Must have standard pickup combo's

Must have additional B+N and B+N+M combo's

This depends on you, "best" is in the ear of the listener.

The limitation of one push pull pot means that there will be a maximum of 10 combinations.

The use of standard pickup combo's (#1 thru #5) means that there are 5 left.

The need for B+N and B+M+N means that there are three left.

It may well be that the combinations that you might specify cannot be realized with a super switch (4P5T) and only a push pull pot (DPDT), especially if phase is involved. This is the reason why Fender's S-1 switch is 4PDT. In some cases, even this won't be enough.

What else do you want it to do? I would recommend series combinations such as B*M, B*N, and M*N. I also like B*M*N, especially with phasing. These realize a stronger drive signal to the amp and approach humbuckers in effect to some degree.


This design, Mike Richardson wiring with phase, I highly recommend (and I didn't even design it). I recommend that the phase switches on the neck and bridge pickup be included as well, since these really come into their own in the series modes.

This design does the following combinations:

1. B
2. B+M
3. B+N
4, M+N
5. N

6. B+M+N
7. B*M
8. B*N
9. M*N
10. B*M*N

It does not do middle only and it does not have one tone pot dedicated to the bridge and middle. Since it only does B+N, this is not an issue.

Note that it also does not do the combined series/parallel structures, but what it does is enough for most.

I have designed some fairly complex wiring, mostly for my own use, but I still keep coming back to using Mike's design. It is a most logical design to use while being "distracted" by playing.

There are other Mike Richardson designs out there, but the ones that do the middle only do not do some of the other desired series modes.

[omni]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your help.

What combinations can be accomplished if I replace the push/pull pot with a 4PDT pushbutton switch instead?

I don't care for push/pull pots or toggle switches but a pushbutton switch could make for a very clean look if done properly.

I would use the following switch with a round cap (black, white or chrome)



Thanks,
Omni

[ChrisK]

Re:

What combinations can be accomplished if I replace the push/pull pot with a 4PDT pushbutton switch instead?

When I posted;

It may well be that the combinations that you might specify cannot be realized with a super switch (4P5T) and only a push pull pot (DPDT), especially if phase is involved. This is the reason why Fender's S-1 switch is 4PDT. In some cases, even this won't be enough.

what I was alluding to is that folk are more likely to do an analysis if you say which combinations you want rather than what are all of the combinations possible with a given set of hardware.

For instance, considering that there are 10 remaining combinations from the list of 18 (assuming that OFF and the 7 already chosen are not in play), there are 120 possible combinations (independent of positional ordering) of three choices out of 10 for the remaining ones. That would be 120 individual designs. Now to be fair, it's likely only 120 variations, but to take this on I'd have to be real interested or really bored......

If it was whittled down to any three out of 5, it's still 10 designs.

While there is a lot possible with this hardware, the "lot" possible remains to be seen.

When one gets into the car, it's nice to have a destination in mind.


For example, with a 5 pole super switch (there is an 8 pole one available in Europe), with one pole for the bridge hot and two each for the middle and neck, one absolutely can realize any 5 of any of the 18 possible combinations in any order, including phase. With the addition of a 25PDT switch (one pole for EACH selection of each pole of the super switch), one absolutely can realize any 10 of any of the 18 possible combinations in any order, including phase.

With a 5 X 4 SPST switch matrix one absolutely can realize any of the 18 possible combinations, including phase.

These are excessive numbers of switches. When one limits the environment to a 4P5T and a DPDT or 4PDT switch, the actual realizable combinations must be individually vetted in the grouping desired to see if they can coexist. No outcome is known until the individual paths are followed.

This design, The HSS All Mode 'Caster realizes all possible combinations of a HSS guitar including phase and parallel/series for the humbucker. I know this because I specifically designed it to do this. With three 5 position rotary switches (5^{^3} or 125 possible combinations), it operates in a most logical manner (to me) and therefore is eminently usable for me.

If phasing and series/parallel on the humbucker are removed, with three 3 position rotary switches (series/off/parallel structure for each pickup, 3^{^3} or 9 possible combinations), it also operates in a most logical manner. I have this design worked up as well.

However, it's not your standard Strat switching, eh?

And both of these development efforts were just slightly more than trivial.

Empirical IS.



BTW, that switch is the one (or very similar thereto) used in the S-1.

[ChrisK]

I was wandering thru the schematics section and "remembered" this addition that I did to a John S. Atchley design.

It may have some interest for this thread.

An S-Tastically Hyperventilated Teletype.

[omni]

Thanks for the help,

I just returned from the Namm show and while there I found that Bourns are making guitar pots again.

I was able to get some samples of their two 250K pots
(PDB241-GTR has rotational life of 15,000 cycles min.)
(Model 95 has rotational life of 100,000 cycles)
and their 250K push/pull pots
(PDB183 has rotational/switch life of 15,000 cycles min.)
For anyone interested in trying these pots Allparts have signed on to carry these parts.

I will use these parts on my mod and I decided to use the S-1 wiring diagram as a starting point. I will post the design as soon as I have it finished.

Omni

[ZiggyZipgun]

What's different about these, especially their Premium 500 series? I was just looking over the technical .pdfs of their non-guitar pots and switches, and they make some odd stuff.

[ChrisK]

Hmmm, well, there seems to be some ambiguity on the PDB183 regarding the switch. The data sheet schematically only shows a SPST one labeled "S-1". It also shown 6 terminals for the switch.

I do love the available tapers (if they are all really available).


PDB241-GTR

[omni]

The ones that I am looking at are the model 95 and 91 series. They use conductive polymer elements which last longer than the carbon element used on most guitar pots.
Here are the specs.
www.bourns.com/pdfs/95.pdf

I ordered these and the PDB241-GTR pots from the Mouser.com website.

These pots have some switch options built in and look promising.
www.bourns.com/pdfs/90sers.pdf

Omni

[ChrisK]

from the Mouser.com website.

I'm impressed. Are you active in the OEM electronics industry?

Thanks for the Bournes links.

[omni]

Hi Chris,

I am not in the OEM business at this point. But I have started work on a personal project that could lead to a strat retrofit product.

That is why I am interested in investigating new switches and pots so that I can incorporate them into my design.

When I finish my schematic I will post it.

Omni