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Post by flateric on Jan 18, 2008 9:25:49 GMT -5
I'm building a replica ric 4003 at the moment. Thinking about the electrics, ric use silly pots, 330k - everything on a ric seems to be non-standard. I'm not so bothered about the pot R as I can't get ric pups anyway, so this will be Seymour Duncan replacement ric pups. Anyway, I'd like to include the push-pull pot option the later rics have on the bridge vol pot which switches in a bright tone via a cap.
My question is, if I install a 3-way DPDT switch instead what would be 2 good cap values to use to get a useful range of tones in the circuit?
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Post by flateric on Jan 21, 2008 6:13:32 GMT -5
OK, I'll start with the 0.047uF cap they (used to) put with the neck pup, maybe go for a 0.022uF switchable option?
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Post by flateric on Jan 24, 2008 15:49:53 GMT -5
No, its a 0.0047uF cap with a shunt. maybe best try a 0.0047 and a 0.0022uF on a three-way dpdt toggle switch.
Now somewhere i came across a really simple little diagram showing how to wire up a couple of cap choices for a pickup to run thru, but I can't remember where...
If anyone wants to join in my conversation, please feel free. I'll go on about it for ages, just jump in any time.
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Post by kuzi16 on Jan 24, 2008 20:26:06 GMT -5
If anyone wants to join in my conversation, please feel free. I'll go on about it for ages, just jump in any time. i woulda a while back but i dont have a ric bass.... all i know about them is that they are expensive and they sound great... |
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Post by ashcatlt on Jan 25, 2008 0:31:53 GMT -5
Well, they feel great too...
I was going to mention that the Rickenbacker website has a fairly extensive library of wiring diagrams, but I guess you found that yourself. I also wanted to mention that you could send it to me and I'll look into it for you. Send it back in a couple years. Probably.
As for the diagram: you're looking to put the cap in series with the pickup. So like with a DPDT to choose between with cap and without you'd put the input from the pickup on one pole, out to switch (or the rest of the circuit) on the other. Cap goes between one of the terminals on one side to the same terminal on the other. A wire jumper goes between the other two terminals. Done. Want two caps and a bypass? Get a 2P3T.
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Post by flateric on Jan 25, 2008 5:43:27 GMT -5
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Post by flateric on Jan 28, 2008 6:18:04 GMT -5
I have a couple of 6PDT on/on/on toggle switches to use up. Could I use one to switch between:
Cap1 in series
bypass (straight thru)
Cap2 in series
before signal gets to the tone pot?
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Post by flateric on Jan 31, 2008 13:27:36 GMT -5
This should do it (Courtesy JoeA on PG forum)  Vintage Ric bass treble boost (read Bass Cut) switch with additional cap in for alternative bass cut level, and running off a dpdt on/on/on switch. |
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Post by andy on Jan 31, 2008 15:36:15 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I'm very little use when it comes to electronics... ...I like the 'lemonbacker' truss rod cover though! Did you make that yourself, or have it done for you somewhere? It looks quite authentic. Well, for want of a better word!  |
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Post by sumgai on Jan 31, 2008 16:28:15 GMT -5
andy,
I was reading that as "Lemonborker"! ;D
♭eric, that's a nice job on the lettering on that coverplate, how'd you do that?
sumgai
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Post by flateric on Jan 31, 2008 17:53:56 GMT -5
Thx, photoshop, a deskjet printer and a can of acrylic lacquer. Thats my secret!
But what about the circuit? That would work wouldn't it, wired up on the way to the tone pot? 3 levels of bass cut ('treble boost'):
1. none
2. a bit
3. a bit more
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Post by sumgai on Feb 1, 2008 13:28:06 GMT -5
♭eric, I was afraid you'd ask that.  In a word, yes, it'll work, after a fashion. But there is a big "but" here....... Capacitors work all by themselves, they have these "properties". But in order for us humans to control them (meaning, their effects on the real world), we pretty much have to combine them with other electronical parts. In the diagram you've shown, there seem to be no other parts. Wrong.  In any circuit, there are parts galore, and they all have an effect. So your circuit's caps are actually interacting with the impedance of the pickups, the value of any variable controls, the cable to the amp, and lots of little "Murphy-quality" unknown quantities. That said, the caps will prevent some low-end frequencies from getting through, but there is so much latitude here, it's not funny. Just the manufacturer's tolerance when making the thing is enough to drive you nuts, trying to find the magic combination of parts that sound just right......  Which is why we nearly always combine them with at least one resistor, usually variable, so that we can control at least some of the aspects of its behavior. A cap and resistor (commonly called an RC filter) can be either in series or parallel, they will have moderately different effect on the signal, as you vary the resistor's value. When you said that you're gonna run this setup to the tone control, did you mean the standard everyday run-of-the-mill treble cut, or did you mean a specific separate control for the bass cut? And before I forget it, most Bass-focused circuitry uses values about a 10th of what the treble side uses. Just seems to be the rule of thumb.  As to your switching diagram itself, that's a horse of different fish. I'm sorry to have to say, I don't see that working at all, let alone in the way you wanted (C1/straight-thru/C2). Depending on the type of 'center-on' switch you're gonna use, it will either give you C1/straight-thru/straight-thru, or C1/open/straight-thru. C2 will never get involved, or at least, that's how I see it. Before you go much further, check out the top-middle diagram in this template - it'll show you how most of the switches found in the guitar world are wired internally, so you can arrange your wiring to suit. If your switch isn't like this, then you need to re-consider your options.  HTH sumgai |
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Post by flateric on Feb 1, 2008 18:54:41 GMT -5
 This is a pretty standard 3-way switch I've used befoere for guitar stuff. I reckon this would do the 2 caps and bypass too but I note your comments on the influence of the rest of the circuit. |
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Post by sumgai on Feb 4, 2008 3:00:27 GMT -5
♭eric; OOOOPS!   My error! I meant to say that C1 will never get any action, not C2. I admit to falling prey to the convention of numbering from the top/left towards the bottom/right. You suckered me! Further, I blew the callout of what's hooked up for this kind of switch. Instead of C2/off/straight-thru, I should have said C2/C1+C2/straight-thru. That's still not up to design spec, is it? But to get to heart of the matter, you can make either kind of switch work for you as C1/straight-thru/C2, if you think 'outside the box'....... think "by-pass the capacitor" and see what you get. ;D HTH sumgai |
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Post by sumgai on Feb 6, 2008 16:03:28 GMT -5
♭eric, I know you're logging in, have you yet considered the answer to my question above? Possibly I should have said "think " shunt the capacitor" and see what you get. In fact, the job can be done with a SP3T (on/on/on), but those are not common puppies. sumgai |
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Post by flateric on Feb 7, 2008 10:36:35 GMT -5
I've been considering the options. Having read the various opinions amongst the ric bass community about the 'treble boost' cap in the older rics most people tended to mod it by shorting it out with a piece of wire, rather than build the cap option back in for the newer rics. reason seems to be that older amps didn't have enough balls to take the bass output from the bridge pup so this cap was used to cut the bass down in the signal. Now amps are so much better, there's no reason to deprive the player of all that lovely bottom end, but the treble cap is still incuded as a switchable option for the purists who want to experience the authentic vintage thin and bass-deficient tone of the older rics. It sounds like an option i can actually live without, so I'm rethinking a simpler strategy now for the wiring.
The modern ric schematics include an asterisk note saying the treble boost cap is now coming with a shunt in the way of a push-pull pot, as you rightly metion, sumgai.
Maybe I'll put it together without the mini swoitch and see how I like the tone first. I can always return to it and remaod the wiring once I've lived with the bass for a bit. I've still got a good few weeks building before she's ready to string up anyway.
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Post by andy on Feb 7, 2008 11:22:09 GMT -5
Yes, I saw a pair of Ric's in a shop just recently with a standard/vintage push/pull pot. I didn't bother to try them as they were in one of those security chain loop systems, which always take ages for the shop assistant to un-hook. And I couldn't afford either of them anyway... |
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Which is why we nearly always combine them with at least one resistor, usually variable, so that we can control at least some of the aspects of its behavior.
My error! I meant to say that C1 will never get any action, not C2. I admit to falling prey to the convention of numbering from the top/left towards the bottom/right. You suckered me!