Nut Files

[n7188u]

Hi guys,

I'm probably going to get burned for asking this question but is there a low(er) cost alternative to the Nut Slotting Files at S-McD which are about $13 ea? What are the file widths required for an electric guitar? How critical is it that the bottom of the slot be a perfect radius match to the string? Is it possible to manufacture my own set? (I have access to machine shop tools such as a surface grinder). By now you have correctly guessed I can't afford the $80 for a set

A problem I'm having is that when using the tremolo (or vibrato) I hear a click toward the headstock and then my 3rd string is out of tune. I suspect that the string is sticking either in the nut or the butterfly string tree. Is the butterfly plate supposed to be snug on its post or have a little clearance to float around?

Another question I had was why do some pickups have all poles at the same level and others seem to have them at different heights?

Sorry for all the questions,
Chris

[darguitar]

I can't think of any cheap way of replacing the valuable nut file set that stewmac provide. They are indespensible in my opinion if you are a guitar repairer. However, depending on how low your nut is cut, you may be able to use a 3 corner needle file to fix your problem.
I'm imagining your nut is not cut so low( the overall height of the nut that is!!) If the G string is sitting in a mighty trench, then you must 1st use a flat file to lower the overall height of the nut. Once the top of the G string is almost flat with the top of the nut, you can take a 3 corner needle file to improve the nut slot. Gently filing, with a backward angle (towards the tuning heads), you can roll the file from side to side very gently, widening the G string nut slot. If this makes no sense, sometimes Stewmac have more explicit details on their website regarding Nut Making!! It doesnt take a lot of work (5 seconds or less sometimes) to make a big difference. Good Luck

[n7188u]

Thanks darguitar,

I have done a bit of reading on replacing a guitar nut and I can tell that the stock nut in my guitar is horrid. 1st string height is OK but low E is very high, the slots are very deep, no relief in the slots, and I suspect the strings are sticking in the slots resulting tuning and vibrato problems.

But, I probably need a set of files if I want to do anything "proper" to my nut Another alternative is to give it to a Luthier but working on my guitar is becoming as much of a hobby as playing it. I am very crafty, have a well stocked shop and I always get huge satisfaction out of working on my own stuff.

Chris

[n7188u]

Thanks ChrisK. I'll keep that reference in case I decide to buy them. They sure are fairly priced.

I have to report that I found a low cost alternative. BTW, I don't condone this method and I'm certainly not a luthier but it worked for a hobbyist like me.

I have an oxyacetylene torch tip cleaning file set. For those who have never seen them, they are a wire gage file and a set costs about $3-$4. My set has 13 files from .013" to .064" and they happen to almost match the guitar file sets. I checked them using digital calipers and they are quite consistent.

I cut the files to about 1.25" long and bonded them to the edge of a corresponding feeler gage for support. They produced beautifully finished round ended slots in a cheap plastic nut. I can't tell what it would do to other more exotic materials.

I can also report that now that I fixed the nut and the sound, action, tunning and vibrato are now GRRREAT!

Thanks,
Chris

[crazymanandy]

n7188u said:

Thanks ChrisK. I'll keep that reference in case I decide to buy them. They sure are fairly priced.

I have to report that I found a low cost alternative. BTW, I don't condone this method and I'm certainly not a luthier but it worked for a hobbyist like me.

I have an oxyacetylene torch tip cleaning file set. For those who have never seen them, they are a wire gage file and a set costs about $3-$4. My set has 13 files from .013" to .064" and they happen to almost match the guitar file sets. I checked them using digital calipers and they are quite consistent.

I cut the files to about 1.25" long and bonded them to the edge of a corresponding feeler gage for support. They produced beautifully finished round ended slots in a cheap plastic nut. I can't tell what it would do to other more exotic materials.

I can also report that now that I fixed the nut and the sound, action, tunning and vibrato are now GRRREAT!

Thanks,
Chris

I've read of that method a few times. Thought about trying it for my first build, to cut costs. Where would you get such a file set? Would someplace like Home Depot or Lowes have them? Nevermind, I found a place.

CMA

[sumgai]

Chris(3),

This is exactly the reason why this Forum exists - the passing along of tips that might help another attain his/her goal.

And while you may not "condone" the home-made route (and just who died and made you the judge of such things? ;D), the rest of us are tickled pink to learn that there are indeed less expensive alternatives that work just as well as the high-priced spread. If I were in the business full-time, I'd seriously consider a couple of sets of these things. I'd just as soon keep my money, if you please...... Stew-Mac can go find someone else to fund their condo in the Bahamas!

A big +1 for you!


sumgai

[pollyshero]

And how! - I've been choosing food, shelter, and clothing over a nut file set for ages. Silly me. Thanks n7188u!

[ChrisK]

Nut File Sets:
www.guitarpartsusa.com/item--Guitar-Nut-Files--PROD428

www.alliedlutherie.com/files.htm

Someone actually has been selling a set of torch files as nut files for some time now for about $10. They also sell a "kit" of "stuff" where one can build an Earvana style nut. I saw this about 3 years ago and I don't remember the name or link.


While these may be great (as in OK and low cost), to properly cut the fall-back angle on a nut slot toward the tuners, it's much easier with a proper nut file. Since virtually all of my slot work involves making new nuts, I use the files.

[n7188u]

Sumgai, I think I am judging myself for reason of inexperience I really don't know if using the torch files results in a proper job. I'll let real luthiers be the final judges. I don't want to come across as an expert recommending a particular way of doing something. But, I think that if you are careful, a combination of a thin saw and these files works for a hobbyist.

ChrisK is correct in the difficulty to cut the downward relief toward the tuners with the torch files. They bend easily, making cutting a good relief hard. If you bond the files to something like the edge of a feeler gage of the same thickness as the file (or a little smaller for relief) then the file will be rigid and straight.

One last thing, you can only use these files to dress slots for guitars like my Strat copy since the strings follow a straight line (laterally) to the tuners on both sides of the nut. If you have to cut lateral reliefs on the tuner side of the nut, you are out of luck with the torch files since they don't have flat cutting sides.

Regards,
Chris

[crazymanandy]

n7188u said:

Sumgai, I think I am judging myself for reason of inexperience I really don't know if using the torch files results in a proper job. I'll let real luthiers be the final judges. I don't want to come across as an expert recommending a particular way of doing something. But, I think that if you are careful, a combination of a thin saw and these files works for a hobbyist.

I believe that all of the luthiers I have run across who know of this method agree that it can do a fine job cutting nut slots, especially for the hobbyist. So, I think you're good to go in that regard.

But anyway, thanks for reminding of this method. I really didn't want to blow a bunch of money on nut files for the amount of work I do.

ChrisK is correct in the difficulty to cut the downward relief toward the tuners with the torch files. They bend easily, making cutting a good relief hard. If you bond the files to something like the edge of a feeler gage of the same thickness as the file (or a little smaller for relief) then the file will be rigid and straight.

You know, I had in mind some sort of small coping saw style wooden frame. I like your feeler gauge idea though.

I am curious, what is the range of sizes on torch tip cleaners?

CMA

[reeced]

I've used "Norman Nut files" (search on Ebay) which are essentially feeler gauges with teeth. They are cheaper than standard nut files, with the added advantage that it's quick and simple to set the correct depth. I've cut at least 6 nuts (bone) with them so far, and each one was perfect.

[n7188u]

crazymanandy, the file sizes in my set are as follows (in inches):

.0165, .020, .023, .026, .030, .033, .036, .040, .042, .045, .050, .058, .065.

This is what I wrote on a piece of paper a few days back and the smallest file is indeed a little big but I can check it again Monday (I have my calipers at work). I believe the first file was actually about .014 instead of .016.

I have heard that on the small solid strings you can get away with a square bottomed slot so a cut made with a thin saw is sufficient. Maybe an experienced member can confirm this.

Chris

[crazymanandy]

You are correct about the square slots for the first two strings. They are plain steel and won't get caught like the other four strings.

CMA