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Post by StratLover on Apr 28, 2005 18:21:42 GMT -5
I have replaced almost all of the pickup's in my guitars and I have been nothing but satisfide with LACE(tm) products. I had a really HOT Tele and the noise was enough to cause some real problems. I used QTB'sC thanks to BLINDLY STUMBLING onto GN1 and replaced the standard Fender(tm) pup's for a T-150 at the bridge and a TN-100 in the neck. CRANKED and 0% HMMMMMM orBuBuBuBZZZZZZ. The Lace Sensors are a marvel of technology. I have only used the single coils thus far, but I have a "DUALLY" as Lace(tm) defines them.....BUCKER to all the rest of us, on the way. New info when I get my current project finished. I am also going to try their real Bucker's called "HEMI'S" in my explorer. Lets see what happens there. If they are anything like the single coils then I will be complete satisfied again.
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dinis64
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
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Post by dinis64 on May 3, 2005 21:39:36 GMT -5
I'm going to have to try those. Buddy guy was using them and he is a tone monster in my book.
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Post by bam on May 5, 2005 6:41:44 GMT -5
.. So does Eric Clapton, too ..
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marmora
Rookie Solder Flinger
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Post by marmora on May 7, 2005 13:37:51 GMT -5
Have you heard of APCs? They are made by the original designer of Lace Sensors.
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Post by StratLover on May 8, 2005 0:25:10 GMT -5
I had no idea that Don Lace was producing another brand of pickup. I am sure that the royalties from Lace Sensors(tm) is a pretty nice chunk of change. Enough to probably live a really comfortable lifestyle. OK, "marmora" you have gotten my curiousity aroused. TELL US MORE or POST A LINK for us to check out the web-site. I'll bite, because I use only Lace Sensors(tm) on ALL my guitars except my Explorer(tm) and my StratoCoustic(tm). ;D
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marmora
Rookie Solder Flinger
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Post by marmora on May 8, 2005 16:13:48 GMT -5
Actually, it's Don's brother Mel (Melvin) who makes them (Don passed away, I believe). From what I've read on other boards, Mel is an electronics genius (you can google his name and find several patents), and before he could finish the final design for the pickups, his brother stole the idea/schematics/prototypes and sold them to Fender. I guess there was a big lawsuit, which I think Mel won and was able to start APC (Adder Plus Corporation). So accordingly, Lace is not his final design, but APCs are. There is a pickup shootout in the Guitar Player April 1994 issue that includes APCs and Lace. There is hardly anything on the web about them. Here are a few useful links: www.adderplus.com Not much here. Don’t bother e-mailing, it won’t get answered. www.harmony-central.com A couple of reviews in the pickup section. www.jcfonline.com The Jackson-Charvel forum. I don’t own a Jackson, but I joined when I found out they talk about APCs here. They actually did a huge group order. I originally stumbled upon them when looking through Harmony-Central for some new pups. Adder Plus was the first entry, I saw a good review, found their site and saw that they were actually located about 20 minutes away from me. I decided I wanted to check out a local company, called Mel (he personally answers the phone) and the rest is history. The pickups are handmade, and are more expensive than mass-produced brands, but still worth it to me. Mel does most of the work himself, so about a year ago when I first started ordering them, they took about 2 or 3 months to finally arrive. Thankfully, Mel has help now. I placed my last order about two weeks ago and Mel had them shipped last Wednesday.
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Post by StratLover on May 9, 2005 2:43:30 GMT -5
Very Cool, I did know of Don's death in October 1992 and could'nt quite understand the mew APC line. Thanks for clearing that up. Now I am curious of the brother thing and APC's themself. It always seems that a family will rob, cheat and steal more often than not does'nt it? I will check out their site and possibly order a few for review and study purposes. I would really like to open them up side by side for the all important patent comparisons. I had the same wait period with Lace(tm) until I met the electronics guru from Actodyne General, now I can usually get an order within two weeks as opposed to a month and sometimes longer. But.................I have found out that the more pup's you order the faster they arrive? Strange huh. Thanks for the links and the info ! Rock on "marmora
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Post by GuyaGuy on May 12, 2005 5:05:45 GMT -5
so, StratLover, what do you say to the familiar criticism that LACE pups are a bit "clinical" sounding? (the phrase is even from a fender representative, who said you can get an 80% of a vintage tone but they are a bit more clinical-sounding.) i've heard the criticism and i've heard praise for the pups but i don't think i've heard response to the criticism from those who praise them.
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Post by erikh on May 12, 2005 8:35:16 GMT -5
I tried the Lace Sensors a few times. Just couldn't get used to them. Maybe I'm too accustomed to Seymour Duncan pickups but I just didn't like the sound as much.
I have a Red Lace Sensor (single) that I'm trying to sell. I used it very little some time ago and it's just been sitting in it's case. I'd probably be happier with the Blue but right now I'm sticking with Duncans.
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Post by StratLover on May 12, 2005 16:15:20 GMT -5
If by clinical you mean CLEAN then yes I do feel they are clean. If by clinical you mean artificial then no I don't. Lace(tm) makes a line of pup's called Holy Grails(tm) and they are the ONLY Lace(tm) pup designed to have a VINTAGE sound and I have only one trio of them myself. I use Origional Lace Sensors(tm) in all but 5 of my guitars. These are not designed to have a vintage sound and they are not wired up stock either. There are a lot of things you can do to tweak them just a little bit, and that seems to be a concensus to those I have spoken with. There are those of us that prefer a Strat(tm) over a Les Paul(tm) and it is a well known fact that origional Fender(tm) pup's have a tendency to be a little more noisy than Lace Sensors(tm) or a Les Paul(tm). Of the many Strat's(tm) that I have, Lace(tm) pup's soud different in just about every one. The real consistancy in overall sound though tends to be models made between 1978 and 1989 in the US. I feel that the density of materials used during this era is the key contributing factor. Origionally they were developed for FenderCorp.(tm) by Don Lace to put in their now much saught after StratPlus(tm) and StratUltra(tm) models. I have just recently purchased a Dually(tm) model from Lace(tm) and I am planning to put it in the bridge position of a Strat(tm) with a split and phase option. There are also Humbuckers available from Lace(tm) called Hemi's that are designed to directly replace a Humbucker, but I have no intent to take the Humbuckers out of my two Explorer's(tm) at this time. I might give them a try in the future though, just to say I did it. Overall I have been really happy with the performance I have gotten and the reliability as well.
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Post by erikh on May 12, 2005 16:59:28 GMT -5
StratLover, maybe you can help me out here with my Lace Sensor. Who knows, maybe I'll decide to keep it. Anyway, when I put it in my strat, it just didn't seem alive enough, not crisp enough. Could that be because I was using the stock 250k volume pot? Would it be better to use a 500k volume with the Lace Sensors? If I do that, well, then the other stock single coils may get TOO bright. Ideas?
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Post by StratLover on May 12, 2005 20:42:19 GMT -5
First I have a couple of questions for you.
Did you install the pup with the wires on the High E side of the pickguard?
Did you replace the neck pup or bridge pup?
Did you use both ground wires?
I have found out that the capacitor value sometimes makes all the difference in the world. I have used .040mdf all the way to.010mdf, depending solely on the guitar. I know this sounds ubsurd, but it's true.
Lace(tm) recommends 250K pots and I have in my guitars a 250K TBX pot with a 1meg resistor and the capicitor that makes the most audible difference. As opposed to a 250K standard pot which sometimes seems to make no diference at all audible wise. The TBX pot has a detent in the middle for a standard bright tone. Roll it on and it gets a whole lot brighter. Roll it off and the tone gets smoothe, creamy and dreamy.
I might also mention that I have gotten two pup's from Lace(tm) that did'nt test out properly and all I had to do was send them back and they were replaced in a week. Just a little F.Y.I. I thought you needed to know.
I guess that this is all experimental and conducive of the actual sound we are trying to achieve. I will say this as well, a 500K pot WILL effect the rest of your guitar unless it is ulilized with just the one pup, but that option is not a real good solve for the situation. I would almost think that the pup was not testing out right or was installed 180 degreees out.
Please check it out and get back with me, because you have a really good pup. If it is bad send it back as soon as you can.
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Post by erikh on May 12, 2005 22:07:56 GMT -5
It's a little late to send it back, it's over ten years old. ;D I know the pickup is good. When I measured the DC resistance it measured at 16.?k (can't remember the exact number).
When it was installed, I had the wires at the high E string. It was oriented so you could read "Fender -Lace Sensor" when the guitar was on a stand. Everything else in the guitar is bone-stock as the day I bought it.
It was placed in the bridge position and it has only two wires, one white and one orange (orange being hot, white being ground). This model is from the 2000 FLS Series.
My TBX makes a difference all right. I have a Seymour Duncan SSL-6 in the bridge now and it definitely changes things when I turn it. I usually leave it wide open anyway.
What I am thinking about doing is putting a Little 59 that I have in the bridge, Red Lace Sensor in the middle and the SSL-6 in the neck. I've had the Little 59 and SSL-6 in those positions before but changed things around. Right now the mid and neck are Fender stock. If I throw the Little 59 in there, being that it's a humbucker, a 500k volume should go in place of the 250k shouldn't it?
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Post by StratLover on May 13, 2005 11:01:06 GMT -5
I personally have not mixed a 500K pot in with any of the Lace(tm) set-ups I currently have. In all the applications I have, it has called for 250K pot's. I have just messed around with the cap value to get the tone I was looking for.
In my Explorers, now thats a different story.
What do the other pup's test out at?
Somewhere close to the RED?
If yes then I would try it. You could always mess around with the cap on the RED to help you match more evenly.
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Post by erikh on May 13, 2005 12:14:27 GMT -5
Oh gosh. The stock Fender single coils measure between 7-8k. The Little 59 is 11.78k and the SSL-6 measure 13k.
In theory, the Red Lace Sensor should be in the bridge since it is the hottest but I like the Little 59 there better. When I get some free time I'll mess with it. I know if the Little 59 goes back in it, it's going in the bridge position. The SSL-6 has the visible poles so being that the Lace Sensor doesn't, appearance wise, it would look better with the Lace Sensor in the middle.
If I don't like the tones, I can always trade the Lace Sensor for something else.
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Post by StratLover on May 14, 2005 14:48:29 GMT -5
With those readings you should'nt have a problem at all, with a 500K pot since they are all fairly close to the same. A RED in the bridge sounds especially funky with a lot of highs and mids. In the middle it gives a savory blues tone usually obtained by bridge pups alone. I have a Strat(tm) with 3-REDS and it has a MEAN NASTY tone in all 5 positions, but it is crystal clear and devoid of choppy lows which one might expect.
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Post by erikh on May 14, 2005 20:45:33 GMT -5
I was thinking along the same lines. Heck, if I have to, I can always see what a resistor in series with the single coil hot leads to the switch will do if they are too bright. The Lace Sensor should sound ok with it being opened up more, it's the SSL-6 that I'm most concerned about. I'll pick up some 500k pots and "tinker" with it.
Oh, I'm assuming "yes" is the answer to this but should I replace the tone pots with 500k too if I am going to change the volume to 500k?
I might also wire it the "old" way with no tone on the bridge pickup so the Little 59 really comes through.
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Post by StratLover on May 14, 2005 21:28:22 GMT -5
It's definitely something to try. A resistor I would think would only enhance the tone, sort of purify and add some honey, I guess is what I'm trying to say. Sweeten and clarify as well as soften. MAN that sounds like a pitch-line for some feminine slather product or something. Remember what the TBX does to your tone on the SSL-6(tm) and I would only think you would get the same effect with the Little-59(tm). Please let me know what the 500's do as I might be cracking open some pickguards myself.
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Post by StratLover on May 20, 2005 1:10:43 GMT -5
New report on the Lace Sensor(tm) Hot Gold Dually. Just completed another pickguard and used this pickup in the bridge position. It first of all tested at 26.6K and I have it split(tapped), phased and paralleled in series. I am shocked at the power of this pup. It has the clarity and edge of a single coil and it is not loopy in the low end like a lot of passive humbuckers out there. In combination with the TBX there is more range tonally than any other pup I have tried. I am still in shock over this new pup and I feel I have finally found that ALL-ELUSIVE vibe, tone and energy I have chased for far too long. All I can say is WOW.........;D.........I highly recommend this pup for a humbucker guy who feels the need for a little change. Who knows, you might just fall in love as I did. [glow=red,2,300]AMAZZZING ! ! ![/glow]
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Post by GuyaGuy on May 20, 2005 1:59:19 GMT -5
so, i couldn't tell from yr last post, StratLover. you DO like the dually then? isn't 26.6K just ridiculous? i don't know how that's even possible, esp if it sounds cleaner than most HBs, as you said. granted, my strat-style pu's are weak at 5.5K and even my hottest HB was 11...but 26.6K?!
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Post by StratLover on May 20, 2005 17:36:43 GMT -5
OH believe ! ! ! [glow=red,2,300]26.6K[/glow] Honestly I was freaked out to the MAXXXX when I tested it. Even split the readings I got were 13.5K in the front and 13.1K in the back, and that is greater than some passive buckers all togather. All I can say is just try one, you too will feel as I do !
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Post by GuyaGuy on May 21, 2005 1:29:35 GMT -5
and does the DC resistance actually indicate how hot it is? in other words, would it actually be almost 5 TIMES as hot as my 5.5Ks? that may be too hot for me to handle!
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Post by StratLover on May 21, 2005 17:08:44 GMT -5
After I almost jumped out of my skin, I had to check my meter to make sure it was reading properly. I checked a pup that I use for just that prupose on a weekly basis..........and yes it is ! ;D
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Post by GuyaGuy on May 22, 2005 3:48:27 GMT -5
hey, do you happen to know what the lace pickup is that is a "dual single?" it looks like a HB and fits in a HB slot but is actually 2 SCs w/ separate wires. the one i saw had chrome covers. i got a similar no-name PU for a project guitar that i tenderly call my "rock 'n' roll fantasy guitar." got the PU off ebay and when i put it in only one coil was working. oh, well, i think i only paid 10 bucks or so for it. anyhow, that lace double-single might be a good replacement...
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xStonr
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 34
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Post by xStonr on May 22, 2005 12:30:45 GMT -5
I'm probably one of the few people who didn't have any luck with Lace Sensors. First I had a set of golds installed and they sounded kind of weak and limpy to me. Next I went with a complete set of reds and they sounded muddy to me. I've gone through 2 different sets of off brand pickups since and have finally settled on a set of CS Fat 50's.
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Post by StratLover on May 22, 2005 12:32:27 GMT -5
It is called a dually Chrome Dome. It is basiclly the same one as I have described above, but with a silver cover. It is actually a little lower on the range too, at about 19.1K-20.2K. The highs are a little more clear and the lows do not thump and get out of hand either. Here is a link to the Lace(tm) site directly to the Chrome Dome page. ;D www.lacemusic.com/store/product.asp?id=33&catid=1They are a little more costly than a reguler dually, but they would be well worth your investment. Especially for a R&R fantasy axe. Use this page for information only as ordering directly from Lace(tm) is very costly. Here is the cheapest place I have found, I order from them weekly. Great service and fast response times as well. This page also goes directly to your item. cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=22670&item=7322945925
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Post by GuyaGuy on May 23, 2005 1:59:53 GMT -5
i guess the info i was given was wrong. i was told it was 2 single coil pickups stuck together to fit in a HB slot. guess i could wire em that way if i wanted. anyhow thanks for the info! i'll have to look into 'em!
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Post by erikh on May 23, 2005 9:45:38 GMT -5
I'm probably one of the few people who didn't have any luck with Lace Sensors. First I had a set of golds installed and they sounded kind of weak and limpy to me. Next I went with a complete set of reds and they sounded muddy to me. I've gone through 2 different sets of off brand pickups since and have finally settled on a set of CS Fat 50's. Me too. I didn't really like the red when I installed it. To muddy. I just tried it again in the mid position and don't like it there either. I think I'll be sticking with Seymour Duncan's for my guitars. Anybody need a Red Lace Sensor?
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Post by StratLover on May 23, 2005 13:04:09 GMT -5
Hey "xStoner" put your Lace Sensor(tm) in the "Hock Shop" and have respondents PM you with their intrest. ;D Sorry you did'nt like it. The Red is not for everyone, and they are a lot better when mixed instead of played through as a single. Their muddieness is far too chunky.........if the high limits were a little more bright they would be a really good pup for the bridge.
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phvdv
Rookie Solder Flinger
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Post by phvdv on Jun 8, 2005 10:10:26 GMT -5
StratLover,
I've finally got the LACE SENSORS Red/Silver/Blue combination... and what a combination it is !! I play positions on that Strat that I would play almost never on my other strat (equiped with the Hot Golds), like neck only-clean, bridge only-clean (yep, I almost don't believe it myself), bridge only-full gain (amazing). And as you said, position 2 and 4 are still recognizable strats sound. Anyway, bottom line, those pickups are just as you described them - and I really like them a lot. Thanks. After I've done the changes on my Tele, you can count me in that group of players that use exclusively Lace Sensor pickups.
Cheers, Philippe
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