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Post by UnklMickey on Dec 7, 2005 15:44:56 GMT -5
lots of options here.
nothing stands out as obvious "best" choice, but some are non-starters, thats for sure.
used on ebay is unpredictable, and if i had the slightest suspicion that it was fenced merchandise, not just no but % no.
maybe GFS will start selling stacks by the time i get off the fence on this one. at their prices mistakes aren't catastrophic.
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Revjtode:
welcome aboard!
i'm sure we'll all be interested in seeing you start a thread on that diagram in Electronics and Wiring, when you're ready. some of the other guys get a bit critical there (.:lol:. as if i ain't the pickiest!) but that's a good way to iron out the fine details.
one of the reasons i was interested in the stacks was since they're hum-canceling, they can be treated as a two wire unit. that means i wouldn't have to concern myself with what phase combos are in (or even the need for a combo) to get hum cancellation. that makes the switching simpler so more can be done with series-parallel, phase, etc.
but i do have some thoughts about using a single stack and treating the bottom as a separate entity. that way it could be added as needed to any single, to achieve hum-canceling or to a non-hum-canceling combo to achieve hum-reduction.
on the HS-3, is the "dummy coil" above the magnet, and below the main coil?, or is it below the magnet?
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jester700
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Post by jester700 on Dec 7, 2005 21:09:05 GMT -5
On the HS line, the dummy coil is below the main coil, and has no magnets or slugs in it. A thin sheild seperates the two coils, and the top coil has alnico5 polepieces.
You're right about the simplicity of stacks, but the HS line is an older design in which the top & bottom coils are identical. This loads the pickup. If you disconnect the dummy coil it actually sounds brighter & louder. For this reason I never use my HS-2s as buckers - I use the top coils only, and they're good sounding single coil pickups.
The newer designs - Virtual Vintages, Kinmans, etc. use different coils - the dummy coil has less resistance and doesn't load the pickup as much, so they supposedly sound more natural. I dunno; they're too pricey for me ;-)
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Post by UnklMickey on Dec 7, 2005 21:20:04 GMT -5
On the HS line, the dummy coil is below the main coil, and has no magnets or slugs in it. A thin sheild seperates the two coils, and the top coil has alnico5 polepieces.... hmmmm? so maybe if i got a cheap SC with a "cold" winding, took off the magnet, punched out the slugs, and mounted it under the stock pickup, i might be able to achieve a reasonable amount of hum reduction without too much affect on the tone?
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jester700
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Post by jester700 on Dec 7, 2005 22:57:20 GMT -5
so maybe if i got a cheap SC with a "cold" winding, took off the magnet, punched out the slugs, and mounted it under the stock pickup, i might be able to achieve a reasonable amount of hum reduction without too much affect on the tone? That's the basic idea, but the coils they use are thin, like a bucker; I assume they use thinner 43AWG wire instead of the 42AWG usually used in single coils. If you stacked 2 normal singles that would be one TALL pickup! But people have put dummy coils other places than below the active coil. It'd work to some extent no matter where you put it. How much it'll load the active pickup is a good question - depends on the coils.
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Post by erikh on Dec 13, 2005 15:57:58 GMT -5
Hey unk, if you're still looking, Seymour Duncan has some brand new noiseless single coils out. They are stacks but they are different than any other stack because they actually sound like a true single coil. Guys I know that tried them before release (beta testers) have gone nuts over them because they sound so good. Check them out.
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Post by UnklMickey on Dec 13, 2005 16:30:21 GMT -5
Hey unk, if you're still looking, Seymour Duncan has some brand new noiseless single coils out. They are stacks but they are different than any other stack because they actually sound like a true single coil. Guys I know that tried them before release (beta testers) have gone nuts over them because they sound so good. Check them out. do you know the name or model # of the ones those guys tried? thanks, unk
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Post by erikh on Dec 13, 2005 17:39:14 GMT -5
Hey unk, if you're still looking, Seymour Duncan has some brand new noiseless single coils out. They are stacks but they are different than any other stack because they actually sound like a true single coil. Guys I know that tried them before release (beta testers) have gone nuts over them because they sound so good. Check them out. do you know the name or model # of the ones those guys tried? thanks, unk They're the new Classic Stack Plus model. You can read all sorts of stuff here. There's even links to the patent info. www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58316. I'm over there a lot. Another reason why I haven't been here much...lol.
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Post by Runewalker on Dec 14, 2005 20:51:40 GMT -5
12/7/05 at 8:20pm, unklmickey wrote: so maybe if i got a cheap SC with a "cold" winding, took off the magnet, punched out the slugs, and mounted it under the stock pickup, i might be able to achieve a reasonable amount of hum reduction without too much affect on the tone?
That's the basic idea, but the coils they use are thin, like a bucker; I assume they use thinner 43AWG wire instead of the 42AWG usually used in single coils. If you stacked 2 normal singles that would be one TALL pickup! But people have put dummy coils other places than below the active coil. It'd work to some extent no matter where you put it. How much it'll load the active pickup is a good question - depends on the coils.
I saw an oddball Kramer-strat once that was routed underneath the pickgaurd directly below the pups. In that cavity a dummy RWRP coil was installed that humcancelled any of the individual pups. Don't know what it did with the combos. I guess you could put 2 that were opposite polarity/windings then combine them in as many complicated configs as possible to assure -hum in all positions. A little whacky but that's what all of this is for.
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Post by UnklMickey on Dec 14, 2005 21:40:58 GMT -5
I saw an oddball Kramer-strat once that was routed underneath the pickgaurd directly below the pups. In that cavity a dummy RWRP coil was installed that humcancelled any of the individual pups. Don't know what it did with the combos. I guess you could put 2 that were opposite polarity/windings then combine them in as many complicated configs as possible to assure -hum in all positions. A little whacky but that's what all of this is for. well among other things, i'm thinking it wouldn't matter on the magnet polarity, since wouldn't be sensing the strings. the key here would be to have the correct phase on the coil to cancel the hum on the other coil. i have considered using one coil to be switched in whenever i'm using a single. i'd of course have to change the phase if i pair it up with the rwrp in the middle. that's where things get complicated again. the reason i started down this path was to be able to ignore phasing issues from a hum standpoint, and be able to use a single pup without hum. so i guess if i want to do all that, i either need to come up with a nice sounding stacked set that won't break the bank, or have a canceling coil for EACH pup. i keep vacillating on what would be the better direction to go. i haven't been able to even find a price on those SDs. i KNOW they won't be cheap.
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Post by erikh on Dec 15, 2005 13:58:57 GMT -5
The new Duncan stacks will be priced about $10 more than the previous stack model. That's what I've read.
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Post by mlrpa on Dec 16, 2005 22:16:00 GMT -5
Carvin used to make a stacked humbucker, that had the same ping as a good single without the noise. DiMarzio still does, and the ones they used for Ibanez (IBZUSA) are outragious! Also check out some of the Bill Lawrance xl250's. Yes, I've done the Series/Parallel on a stacked, and achieved some very nice results. I've also wired a Kramer Dual Rail (Sc sized humbucker) as parallel for use with some Ibanez's that use a 4 pole 5 way switch, and combined with the tapped hums, gave a really nice 2 + 4 fenderish tone. But for me, I prefer the side by side single coil sized hums.
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jester700
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Post by jester700 on Dec 17, 2005 7:50:17 GMT -5
Most of my experience with stacks are the IBZUSA ones, which are the same as the DiMarzio HS ones (C2=HS2, etc.). I like them, but they are definitely better without the dummy coil in the circuit. Top coil only, they're a high quality, sparkly single. Humbucking (in series), they're a bit weaker & thinner, but hum free. I never use them as buckers (so why use them, you ask? Because my fave guitars are those early 90's Ibanez adius & Sabre models, so I've used a lot of these).
Kinmans are too pricey and I don't buy DiMarzio anymore, so I'm interested in those Duncans.
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Post by Ripper on Jan 29, 2006 13:06:09 GMT -5
How about the DiMarzio HS-3 ? I tried one at the music store and it seemed to be quite powerful. I didnt have the gain up too high and already it was pleasing to the ear.
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jester700
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Post by jester700 on Jan 29, 2006 19:32:27 GMT -5
It's wound a bit hotter than the HS-2, but not that much. It's not really a high output pickup, especially in normal humbucking mode. But it's a good pickup; if you like it, there ya go.
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Post by ChrisK on Feb 4, 2006 0:32:47 GMT -5
FWIW,
Fender are now offering their SCN PU's in sets as aftermarket items (and not just as defective part replacement items).
These are stacked SC's. They have a P-90-like'ish magnet structure. There are pole pieces (slugs) that go thru both coils. Between the coils are four (two per side) samarian colbalt bar magnets w/ their north poles touching the pole pieces, and the south sides facing outward.
I first discovered this when I took my Am Dlx Strat apart back in Feb04 (and didn't quite believe it) since both the top (string) end AND the other end of the slugs were north.
Hopefully the S-1 switch/pot/knobs will also find their way to (after)market.
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