Squire '51 at my house!

[ux4484]

I stopped by GC because they're having a relocation sale (actually moving closer to me!). I wasn't really looking for anything, but they had a small stable of '51's and all of them for $99 bucks (I had played one a couple weeks back as well). most were dented or scratched in some way, but one was pristine. After spending about 20 minutes with it in a Vox AD50VT, I walked out with it. What an incredible neck for a $100 guitar! I can't say the same for the fit of the pickgard which seems to be mounted just a tad too high (it's center on the body, but not perfectly lined up with the contour of it).The guard is cheap looking (think old white frisbee material).

I had passed on my Squire Strat to my brother last week (sorry unk for not originally giving you the real story on the MM body) and found myself wanting. The Tele is great, but there are just some sounds it doesn't do right.

This thing begs to be tinkered with, gobs of room on the pickgard, and some switchy-ness already. Stock, it sounds and plays pretty good. the fret ends were a tad blunt, but some quick work with a jewelers file fixed that right up. I think Fender expects only 009's to be put on this puppy, but .010's is what I've got...Intonation was wayyyy off. by the time I was done, the saddles were so retracted that they were well beyond the small grooves that were put into the bridge....making me think that the bridge was installed too far up the body (like the pickgard). There is still some adjustment, but not much. But tuning and intonation is very solid. Goofy thing....Fender decided to provide different length screws for each saddle, but they don't seem to be IN the right saddle. You would expect the shortest screws to be the low E and G positions, but they are not. I'm thinking this isn't watched too closely on what is almost a give away guitar. Anyways, the screws are going to be all replaced or cut down, because once intonation was set, they interfere with the strings. Other than that, I like the bridge. it has sideways g shape saddles (think of a lower case g lying on it's back with the circle to the left). This makes it very similar to playing a tele if you ride the (ashtray) bridge (nothing catches on your hand).

My first though when I played it a while back was to replace the neck pup, but now I like it. The humbucker looks like the same one from my Squire fat strat, but is not quite as rich sounding, it will be replaced. Wiring is odd, no caps, just the three position rotator and the push-pull/split volume/switch. The most interesting of the sounds is both pups together with the bridge split. I have another old DM Dual Sound, I'm thinking of putting it in and adding a few switches (room on the control plate for 2 mini's in between the knobs). I'm thinking phase and or series/parallel switching.
I really enjoy playing this wanna-be, the neck is very smooth maple, and action is able to be set very low with no buzzing anywhere. I may have to go pick up a slide!
I know it looks like left-overs....but ya know. I LIKE left-overs. Some things are better the second time around.

[ux4484]

After having it for a couple months, I have tinkered on it a bit. I popped that DM Dual Sound in it, though I just wired it in as a replacement for the original HB pup (split not S/P).
This gave it a better range of sounds. It's great for surf music and I did pop for a slide for the first time (much buzzing ensued )
But it is missing something.....a soul, it seems very sterile to play compared to my other guitars. It is fun to play and a good value, but I have to say, this guitar screams for a tone control to give it what (I think) it is missing. I have a mini three way I'll be popping in to replace the rotator selector and put in a tone control in it's place. I'm also thinking of popping a Lil Puncher in the neck position....all this should still keep it in the bargin bin investment wise, but make it much more lively.

[eljib]

sounds like you've got a real bargain. Good luck with the project, and Happy new year

EDIT:
Whoa! I just followed up on the links in your original post. That'd better have been one DAAAMN good Squire to get in return for a '68 Gibson

[ux4484]

Thanks for taking the time to read the back story eljib.

At that point the Gibson was just a hunk of wood with a serial number; stripped clean, no hardware, no parts, cracked neck joint, oil stains on the head, and very worn frets, Much time and money would have been required to make it playable. He's very happy with the Squire (a Black/Chrome fat Strat). The "happily ever after" part is that now, my Bro is playing again ;D!

[ux4484]

Well, the '51 has been a bit neglected since the Epi LP showed up, but I pulled it out last week because I'm taking some classes and 9+ pounds of wood on my lap/neck for 2.5 hours is taking it's toll on me. I can stand for hours playing the LP, but sitting for more than an hour is quite uncomfortable.

I was thisclose to ordering that Peavy Custom EX, but I think I've reached the Mrs' limit for number of guitars in our closet (another would have to go on HER side....and well....that just ain't happenin').

I've toyed with the '51 a bit. I had a DM Dual Sound in it for a while, but I then missed the "bluesier" sound of the original HB in SC mode, so I put the original back in. I then rewired the switch on the volume control for switching series/parallel as opposed to splitting the coils (which unk said a while back, I would (and did) like a bit better), but the hum from the neck pup when both pups were selected (in series mode) was increased, so it's time for me to finally QTB on the '51.

I stopped by Guitar fetish, and I noticed that they have now have pickguards for the '51! as well as a almost drop in replacement bridge for it. Also it's time for a real nut on the thing (though I may have to get a blank and cut it manually, as the string spacing is a bit tighter than either a Strat or Tele). The stock one is a Delrin-like substance, but is just a bit short on sustain.
I'm going to pop the original volume control/switch out and pop in a concentric with one pot wired as a tone control (and then use a mini-toggle for S/P switching on the HB). I had considered putting in one of These , but at that point, I would have put in more than I originally paid for the guitar (and the cheapskate in me won't allow that ) . Total cost for copper tape/kit, nut, pot, pickguard, and bridge will be around $60.
Still can't decide on the pups, as there is something endearing about the sound of the stock ones.

[ChrisK]

Re: Guitar Fetish and the Squier '51.

These are HAND-CUT from plywood bucks..

Huh?

The Squier 51's are made by native peoples using crude implements

?Peoples?

these are made from old loaves of bread and toilet tissue, so a sharp Awl or Icepick is fine

Otherwise known as basswood.

They make these guitars at night with no light bulbs-

Remember these guitars are made from Pound Cake and recycled underpants, so they're easy to cut

Aren't they talking about the same kind of "peoples" (and possibly materials) that make/up their pickups?

[ux4484]

May 12, 2008 16:12:35 GMT -5 ChrisK said:

Aren't they talking about the same kind of "peoples" (and possibly materials) that make/up their pickups?

heh...I was thinking that as well.

That's why all the '51 pickguards require trimming .

[ChrisK]

Do' ya think?


And they spel rael gode on they're web site to.

[lpf3]

ux-

uh-oh ya got me started on the '51.....
I bought mine cuz I loved the way it played ( isn't that a great neck ? ) but thought it was the cheeziest thing I' d seen . I was gonna turn it into a " normal " strat & paint it seafoam green ( which I love ) or vintage white......

Then ChrisK linked me to this modders forum for Squier 51's
www.instituteofnoise.com/Squier51/forum/default.asp
and I was treated to 90+ pages of pic's of modded 51's- started thinking "ok they got a certain vibe to 'em " , then " ok , they're so cheezy they're hip "......
Now I just plain love it . Have you seen these ?
shop.seeker.co.nz
I want one for mine , also a tortoise 'guard .
Oh - here's my '51 , ( the previous owner painted the pickguard gray )

My only complaint about this guitar is the nut is awful........
I'm planning shielding , & a middle pup too . ( budget permitting )


enjoy
-lpf3

[ChrisK]

The custom control plates are kind of neat.

I don't know aboot their Tele control plate with a DPDT slide switch between the pots. Some how them 1/4" round holes (that fit SPDT, SPST, DPDT, DPST, SP3T (ON-ON-ON), 3PDT, 3PST 4PDT, 4PST, 2P3T, etc.) are just slightly easier to drill than them rectangular ones (that also require two mounting holes).

And, they can be expanded to fit a third pot.

Thanks for the links, add them to the links page!

[ux4484]

I got the pickguard last week, it was trimmed fairly well and did fit nicely on the '51, though only two of the holes lined up with the originals (expected). You'd think they would have made the replacements with the same number of screws as the original guard/control plate (13 screws), but of course you need just ONE extra (not a problem as I have them laying around, but most first time modders will be irked). The humbucker opening could have been just a few cents narrower, but after using smaller diameter springs and making a tab adjustment, I was able to align it nicely in the cavity (which is now a smidgen tighter due to my QTB on it).
I routed a path between the pups and to the control cavity to allow the guard to be removed without unsoldering the pups. The concentric pot I bought from GC (shipping was less than MF?) had smaller diameter shafts than the knobs I bought from G-fetish, but a quick application of Stewie-mac's copper shielding tape to the shafts made them the correct size. I tried both the original HB (split only) and my DM Dual Sound in the bridge position, and decided on the DiMarzio with S/P switching. I only made one flub, The kids distracted me when I was working and I scorched the bottom edge of the guard near the control cavity with my trusty Unger iron, but you can't really see it . The G-Fetish bridge lined up perfectly with the original's holes and placement (though two additional holes had to be added), The back lip of the bridge sits about 1/16" back from the original and the saddle screws are not countersunk into the plate, so the low E won't looked jacked back so far compared to the original. The Stewie-Mac Tusq Nut needed some trimming/adjustment to fit. I took some pic's that I'll try to post later once I'm all done (still have to do final assembly and setup).

[ux4484]

Got off my butt and finished up, and even took pics (sorry about the camera phone shots). The Wiring is John H's modified McCarty drawing sans 1 HB, push/pull changed to a mini toggle wired S/P instead of split coil.

Here's the inside:


Here's the stock Squier '51 shot:


Here's the concentric pot and switches and new bridge:


Here's the final product:


Rear rotating selector switch (original) is as stock: 1N 2N+B 3B
Mini Toggle is Parallel front, Series back.
Concentric pot (500K), volume (inside) is CW, tone is CCW (cap is .047uf, the treble rolls off a bit steeply the last 30% of rotation).

The last shot is with intonation set, there is much more leeway on this bridge than the stock one. You can see the full size images here.

I think it looks gobs better than before, and the range of sound is much more distinct than originally. This baby REALLY needed a tone control. Hum on the neck pup is non-existent for the first 3/4 of volume wipe, but does kick in a little above that, I may have to pop the cover off the SC and line it with foil tape it as well.

Another successful G-Nutz project completed!!!!

....I'm gonna go play it for a few hours now.....see YA!

[lpf3]

hey ux ,

Great job on the '51 ! I really like the pickguard & the switches ( gives me an idea for mine ) .
I'm curious about your "take" on series/parallel vs. coil tap ....... I don't have a "mental" tone to compare the two .
Nice bridge too , I have the opposite situation with mine ; the bridge is almost too far away to intonate . ' Been messin around a little with mine , not at all as far along as yours tho'

Anyway , real nice job , looks like ya got a keeper

enjoy ,

-lpf3

[ux4484]

Thanks lpf3,

The biggest advantage (especially in the '51) with S/P over split is that both modes give you hum canceling. You don't notice too it much on the stock pups, because the pups are well matched and the HB in SC mode has the effect of canceling the hum on the neck pup in the N+B position. When I tried the Dual Sound in split mode (before QTB), the amount of hum was VERY significant in N+B position (SC mode) because DM is not balanced with the stock neck pup.
Putting the Dual sound in S/P mode solved that problem, and gives you more volume than in split mode, the sound is very similar, but with a higher output than SC mode.

Very soft body on the '51, used my rotozip to make the slots, it was like butter. That made me notice something else....
Both strap buttons were loose in their holes. I pulled them out, cleaned out the holes, and put Gorilla Wood glue on both button's screws and reinstalled. Much better.

[lpf3]

ux-

Thanks for the info about the series / parallel switching , I think I'm gonna go that route myself . Luckily , all 4 of the pup conductors are easy to expose (access ) so hooking up the switch should be easy enough .... For now I'm taking my time , ( procrastinating ) & still deciding how I want it to look etc.

As for the soft wood , yeah , I noticed that - even my pickguard screws are loose .

I'll post updates later .


-lpf3

[ux4484]

Update: While the Guitar Fetish bridge is much cooler looking and has a bit more span of adjustment, it just wasn't as stable as the stock bridge. The string path was almost completely straight (the bridge string holes are at the height of where the bridge saddles need to be, causing some tuning instability). The stock bridge has the holes at the base of the bridge, providing a string-through the body type angle.
I popped the stock bridge back in, and all is well now.

One observation on the new setup, the neck pup is now so hot compared to how it was, I've lowered it significantly from the strings (about 1/8 above the pickguard). for it to have a more matched level of output with the Bridge pup.

While all these changes hasn't made me switch back to it exclusively, it is certainly stealing some time back from the Epi LP.

[lpf3]

Hey guys .......

ChrisK states ,( in Hanging Cold )

P.S. Ash, that sound like the same type of idea as affixing a metal bar to the bottom of a tele's pickup. Supposedly gives a bit more "growl" (a magical tone term used by


Affixing the ferrous (hint) plate to the bottom of the Tele pickup dos two things; it better couples the individual bar magnets together allowing their individual fields to better interact for a higher output level, and it adds ferrous material to the core of the inductor, increasing the inductance resulting in a shifted lower frequency response (overall range) for the signal.

So, it heads for the mud in a middy kind of way, growling as it goes.

AND ux writes re: his Squier '51

One observation on the new setup, the neck pup is now so hot compared to how it was, I've lowered it significantly from the strings (about 1/8 above the pickguard). for it to have a more matched level of output with the Bridge pup.

This is interesting ...... Anybody remember back when Stew-Mac used to include Guitar Wiring 101 articles in their catalogs ? Well good ol' Mike Lindskold ( from Stew-Mac ) suggested affixing a metal bar to the bottom of a Strat pup to give it extra " sizzle " & it was always on my list to try .....

Well when I took apart my Squier '51 , the neck pup had just that , a metal plate like a Tele , & that pup definitely sizzles .

Mine only showed 3.6K on the ol' geiger counter but it more than holds it's own with a 10.6 HB at the bridge .

Am I to understand that the metal plate on the pup is responsible for this ? ( Kinda makes me wanna rush right out & buy a bunch o' metal plates )

thanks

-lpf3

[ux4484]

No Longer.

[Deleted]

Its some kind of epidemic! But its good to get rid of gear we no longer like.

[ux4484]

Nov 10, 2013 11:26:38 GMT -5 @pyrros said:

Its some kind of epidemic! But its good to get rid of gear we no longer like.

Not a question of "like" GD, a question of emotion VS. practicality. If this was my Aria Diamonds hollobody bass from back in the day... sentiment would win, I would keep it, even if it was falling apart. My '51 is an excellent guitar for what it was, and other than making it into a string through body, I don't think it cold have been improved much more.

Back in the day, I had done a couple guitar projects for friends and bandmates (electronic tech being my trade since high school), I installed some pups, repaired and rebuilt some tube amps (one was a Vox AC30 that caught on fire at my first live show, it became my Jr year class project), and replaced more than a few oil filled multi-wound capacitors with discrete ones. I even effectively "start grounded" a few guitars without even realizing it. Once I got out of school, I stopped working on musical equipment because I wasn't playing anymore (and it's hard to make much $ doing it solo)... but I wasn't a Guitar Nut, just a tech.

Decades later when I started playing again, I had now years of mechanical and electro-mechanical experience in other fields, so when I started looking at guitars again, my attitude had changed. I would overcome this magical befuddlement known as "intonation", and I would eventually learn to properly set up a trem-leo (Chris K), and dare to adjust a truss rod (successfully)!

The dangerous day for me was the day I found John A's site, here's a guy just like me going through the same thing. A Squier Strat shielding and hardtail conversion followed, as did My Mrs Cortez Tele shielding, pup replace/rewire/6 saddle bridge/tuning gear project (also included some refinishing). I was hooked (a NUT).

The '51 was the first guitar I bought with the intention to mod, even then, it underwent incremental updates up until a year ago. I've had a few offers on the '51, but they were usually from guys I was in adult guitar classes in, or from kids (BTW, anyone under 25 is a kid ). I'm happy to know it went to a player who will consider it his Fender "Arsenal", and I can visit it whenever.

I have to move on, my skills are at a level I'm content I can keep my "real" guitars in working order and improve my playing to their level of quality. 

[Deleted]

Interesting story ux!