harv
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Post by harv on Apr 27, 2012 13:18:36 GMT -5
I tried wiring the split humbucker last night and it sounds awesome... in full humbucker mode, it really thickens the mid-low end of my Vox AC 15, and in the split mode, it almost sounds like a Tele; the combination of the neck SC with the full HB is everything I was hoping for and more... thanks to everyone that helped and I look forward to reading the hum-cancelling thread
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Post by newey on Apr 27, 2012 15:42:20 GMT -5
Glad you got it working, harv!
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ryb
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Post by ryb on Apr 29, 2012 13:19:51 GMT -5
Cannot believe it. I singed up on this forum to test out the very same ''introducing a humbucker that can split" into this schematic and the conversation has already started on it. Some timing! My draft has the lower coil of the HB still able to reverse phase regardless if the other coil is on, so I can still get the tele-esque/tele-esque out of phase tone without adding any switches other than the push pulls on the three pots. It's on the wiring page, if anyone would like to check it, but I may as well post the isolated wiring here: (note there should be a connection between the two centre lugs on the left most push pull switch. And the box on the bottom left is the five way switch set to 'bridge' and the two commons) (EDITed by sumgai to make the image show up correctly.)
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ryb
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Post by ryb on Apr 29, 2012 13:22:40 GMT -5
I should say "coil tap" instead of split.
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Post by dannyhill on May 23, 2012 15:21:07 GMT -5
Never did get a reply for someone to check my truth table. Boo-hoo, sob sob. Incidentally, why the 0.033uF cap? Shouldn't it be a 0.047uF for single coils, so when it is rolled off it keeps its scooped sound? 0.033 and smaller let high mids through which means with a single coil - mud, right? Mind you I read someone considered 0.022 on a tele, stock. What a honk! D
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Post by newey on May 23, 2012 20:32:01 GMT -5
DH- I did respond to your table. I can't check it when it is posted without a wiring diagram. I know you said you wired it according to D2o's version, but that diagram isn't in this thread. It's around somewhere, for sure, but I don't know where it is off the top of my head.
Without that, it's tough to vet your table.
I also can't quite decipher your table, it's pretty confusing. You should just list the pickup settings and leave the tone controls out of the table or list them separately.
As far as tone caps go, the conventional wisdom is .022µf for SCs and .047µf for HBs. But "conventional wisdom" doesn't mean it's right for you.
I like .033µf for Strat SCs, not "muddy" at all to my ears. For a HSS guitar with a single "master" tone, .033 sort of "splits the difference" between an .022 and a .047.
Of course, this only matters as you turn the tone control down- the different cap gives (what we might call) a different "sweet spot".
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Post by dannyhill on May 25, 2012 15:51:36 GMT -5
Hi Newey,
Its the same as the wiring scheme on page 2 of this thread, except I have fixed caps for parallel and series positions and not a spdt to choose between two for each. For the table, I will see if I can upload another later but: V=series switch in/out =off/on Neck T = Bridge phase switch in/out=in/out Middle T = Neck in parallel in/out=out of/in the circuit
Copy that about the tone and sweet spots. But I was referring to a regular strat with two tones and three single coils. A 0.033 will not remain scooped when you roll of the tone as highs drop, as per usual, but some high mids creep in thr futher you roll off leaving no 'gap' between the two bands. IMHO. I think when I add the neck phase I will add a strangle switch and change the cap for a 0.047
Thanks anyways! Incidentally, talking about HBs. In an 'ideal world', if I could switch between caps, wouuld this be useful for switching between HB and HB coils in parallel or a single HB coil? Or do single HB coils still have some mid range hump? Thanks as ever!
D
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Post by dannyhill on May 29, 2012 7:43:47 GMT -5
Hi all,
Here's a crazy idea in order to get NXM, -NxM, -N+M....:
Can I add two DPDTs: One to switch between bridge and neck inputs to the series and phase circuits? Another to switch between neck and bridge inputs on lug one of stage 2 and lug one of stage 1. I don't know if its possible two switch both switches at once in a 4PDT??? Don't think it makes sense to have just or the other switched. When both are switched, you can change the phase of the neck pup (wrt to either of the other two) using the p/p on the neck tone pot and/or add any pup combination (as done before for the bridge) in series with the p/p on the neck pup. You would also be able to add the bridge in parallel (as done before for the neck) with any pup combination.
The only (?) weird thing would be that pup selection from the 5 way would be reversed, going from n/n+m/m/b+n/b to b/b+m/m/m+n/n.
Without the resistor switching that would result in 5 switches. Plus one for a strangle switch on the + output. Or have I lost it? Cheers,
DH
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Post by reTrEaD on May 29, 2012 10:06:25 GMT -5
I don't know if its possible two switch both switches at once in a 4PDT??? Don't think it makes sense to have just or the other switched. This seems a reasonable approach to me. Basically you're swapping the neck for bridge (and vice versa) in all aspects of their use. It gets even more necessary to have a roadmap when doing this. But it eliminates any possibility of "collisions" in the switching. Whatever worked before, will work now but with different pickups.
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Post by sbgodofmetal on Jun 6, 2012 1:33:08 GMT -5
Or...... You could do this ;D ;D ;D Saw this and thought of newey
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Post by reTrEaD on Jun 6, 2012 8:14:30 GMT -5
Saw this and thought of newey Saw this and thought of someone else
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 25, 2012 5:38:09 GMT -5
Well, I did it! Managed to fit in two 4PDTs along with the 3 p/ps and 4 way. What a TIGHT fit! Now have the Strat Lovers Strat: Bridge in series on volume p/p Bridge out of phase on neck tone p/p Add neck in parallel on middle tone p/p
One 4PDT swaps the bridge pup wires for the neck pup wires thereby reversing the 'direction' of the 5 way to allow NXM, -NxM, NXM+B, -NxM+B etc
The other 4PDT is an overkill (just used one side), 0.001uF cap between middle lug of volume pot and hot on jack as a strangle switch. I swapped the 0.033 for the archtypical sounding 0.047uF cap.
Took advantage to swap the nasty plastic stock nut for a bone one.
Just need to sort out why centre of pickguard is slightly raised, cuts out or becmes noisy when I push it down. Probably some electrics around the volume pot or less likely the spring under the treble side of the middle pickup as it is flush with the pickguard.
Check setup, new strings and noodle off into the sunset! Thanks all for your advice.
DH
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jun 25, 2012 17:55:08 GMT -5
Well, I did it![...] Check setup, new strings and noodle off into the sunset! Thanks all for your advice. Umm, no. Now comes the part where you post sound samples and pics of your creation ;D
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 28, 2012 3:50:17 GMT -5
Spoke too soon! Grrr. Where is the bridge hot touching the ground leaving the poles hot and the B+M position non-hum cancelling. It also does this when I pull the 4PDT (for N+M), which suggests that its either on the 4PDT (bridge pup wire side) OR on the neck tone p/p. Might be worth checking no shorting on the middle tone p/p too. I swapped out the volume and neck tone p/p last night and replaced some wires. Still there! Grrrr. Time for the multimeter! If only one probe wasn't broken I could be more certain of its readings.
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Post by newey on Jun 28, 2012 5:22:10 GMT -5
If the bridge hot were touching ground, you would have no bridge pickup output in any selection including the bridge.
If this is going to turn into an exercise in trouble-shooting, please start a new thread in Guitar Wiring for that discussion.
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 28, 2012 7:45:11 GMT -5
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Post by dannyhill on Jun 29, 2012 3:19:01 GMT -5
Doh! I had the tamer cap in the wrong place. 16 hours of my life never to be seen again All is great, and quieter than before, I separated shielding from ground up to the jack. Thanks all!
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Post by jimmynitro64 on Jul 31, 2013 22:28:09 GMT -5
John, I'm confused. Isn't the 'plus' sign supposed to mean "parallel'? To denote series, we usually see something like 'x', '*', or even '>' (my personal favorite). I'm sure there are others, but in all my ramblings so far, the plus sign has always meant 'parallel'. Any chance this can be changed so that we GuitarNuts don't end up proving that we are Guitar Nuts as we try to read your otherwise nifty setup? Pretty please? ;D sumgai
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Post by jimmynitro64 on Jul 31, 2013 23:18:16 GMT -5
Hello GuitarNutz. I just wired my strat Like your "StratLovers other Strat". Everything is working just as described. However in position 4 on the 5 way switch, in parallel mode,I'm getting the neck and middle pickup out phase no matter which way I flip the phase switch which shouldn't matter anyway, it should be for the bridge pup only. I'm using on/on mini switches which should not make a difference. Double checked my wiring for bad solder joints,etc. Don't have neck or mid pups hot and grounds reversed,so what the heck do think is going on? Very cool wiring scheme other than that. thank you.
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Post by JohnH on Aug 1, 2013 8:07:46 GMT -5
Hello GuitarNutz. I just wired my strat Like your "StratLovers other Strat". Everything is working just as described. However in position 4 on the 5 way switch, in parallel mode,I'm getting the neck and middle pickup out phase no matter which way I flip the phase switch which shouldn't matter anyway, it should be for the bridge pup only. I'm using on/on mini switches which should not make a difference. Double checked my wiring for bad solder joints,etc. Don't have neck or mid pups hot and grounds reversed,so what the heck do think is going on? Very cool wiring scheme other than that. thank you. It should work out, but maybe yours needs the leads of one pup reversed. If you test each combo, are all the others in phase, with phase switch in? If one pup is out of phase, it should affect two combos. See reference section for the screwdriver pull off test if in doubt
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Post by jimmynitro64 on Aug 1, 2013 23:43:32 GMT -5
Hello John. Thanks for the info. Yes, the 3 pups are in phase with the screwdriver/ volt meter test. all jump up some. Not the same everytime. Could this be an indication of something? Bear in mind that this is a "64 strat that has always worked just fine. I think there is a short either in the phase switch or there is a bad solder joint between the phase switch and the series/parallel switch,what do you think? But even this does not make a lot of since because everything is working great except the 4 position on the 5 way selector(neck/bridge) which is out of phase. But only when switched to Parallel.
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Post by JohnH on Aug 2, 2013 15:47:20 GMT -5
Hello John. Thanks for the info. Yes, the 3 pups are in phase with the screwdriver/ volt meter test. all jump up some. Not the same everytime. Could this be an indication of something? Bear in mind that this is a "64 strat that has always worked just fine. I think there is a short either in the phase switch or there is a bad solder joint between the phase switch and the series/parallel switch,what do you think? But even this does not make a lot of since because everything is working great except the 4 position on the 5 way selector(neck/bridge) which is out of phase. But only when switched to Parallel. Im a bit unclear there. You said they are all in phase, but then they are out of phase in position 4, which is neck/bridge (it should be neck middle?). I suggest you step through each and every switch setting/comination checking: by tapping the poles, that all coils are active or not active as they should be. Checking phase for every coil in each switch position. Lets say you have your meter connected, and generally when you do the pull off test, you are getting a positive pulse. THen when you go to position 4, you reckon it maybe out of phase, so one coil will give a positive pulse and the other a negative, but which one got reversed? Also, careful doing pull off tests. Its not a 'tap' action as for hearing if the coil is active at all. You lay the scredriver on the pole, let everything settle, and lift it up quickly but smoothly,to make either a + or a - pulse.
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Post by dannyhill on Aug 17, 2013 16:45:47 GMT -5
Sorry to pull you away from trouble shooting but I wondered if this scheme could be made up using a superswitch in order to get combinations and avoid some of the deadspots instead of adding toggles left right and centre? E.g. as well as the bridge in phase toggle, neck in parallel toggle and bridge phase toggle I add neck phase to get both N+M and B+M out of phase, plus neck in series to get BXM and NXM etc. Actually I use one switch to swap N and B pickups on 5 way switch poles to get this, but later I get other restrictions which means that I have to add another switch for neck phase. So anyway we can get 10 different positions from one toggle pull with a superswitch, or 15 from an 2P3T and superswitch? Sonething like we did for the Dano? Many thanks in advance,
Danny
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Post by JohnH on Aug 17, 2013 23:47:42 GMT -5
Sorry to pull you away from trouble shooting but I wondered if this scheme could be made up using a superswitch in order to get combinations and avoid some of the deadspots instead of adding toggles left right and centre? E.g. as well as the bridge in phase toggle, neck in parallel toggle and bridge phase toggle I add neck phase to get both N+M and B+M out of phase, plus neck in series to get BXM and NXM etc. Actually I use one switch to swap N and B pickups on 5 way switch poles to get this, but later I get other restrictions which means that I have to add another switch for neck phase. So anyway we can get 10 different positions from one toggle pull with a superswitch, or 15 from an 2P3T and superswitch? Sonething like we did for the Dano? Many thanks in advance, Danny Well you could, but, as the Irishman said when asked the way to Dublin, "This is the wrong place to start from". This Stratlovers strat is just a simple scheme using a standard switch. Based on a Superswitch, there are heaps of ways to get options. Here are my best two attempts for SSS arrangements: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/4461/strat-5and especially this one: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/5380/strat-spHappy to discuss them, or others, further on their own threads. John
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Post by newey on Aug 18, 2013 7:01:27 GMT -5
Or, better yet, start a new thread in the general "Guitar Wiring" section to discuss projects that use a design or seek to alter or extend it.
While I try not to be too heavy-handed with moderating things, we want to keep the "Schematics" section free of more general questions. If the question or comment is specific to the particular design posted, that's fine. If it's more along the lines of a modification, best to start a new thread.
The main reason for this is that someone looking at the Schematics section should find a diagram in the very first post, then any commentary after that. The person shouldn't have to find another diagram on page 5, or wherever.
That said, I won't move posts that ask pertinent questions about a particular scheme. Just that I'd prefer they start afresh.
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boctok
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Post by boctok on May 1, 2018 19:47:45 GMT -5
So, I decided to give this a go with the new version CTS pots. This is going to take a while. I haven't decided if the new design is easier to wire or not. Just a question for John H., I was wondering about the capacitor values. Why go with 10nF and 33nF instead of a 22 and a 47? Does this circuit darken the tone, thus making lower values necessary? Just curious, because I don't have those values lying around. Just the 22s and 47s.
Okay, nevermind. I was using my phone and my eyes are not great with small text. I'll try to stick with the PC screen from now on.
But since I'm already here, would a 22nF and a 47nF end up being too dark and muddy? I guess I can find out and report back.
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Post by JohnH on May 1, 2018 21:51:48 GMT -5
So, I decided to give this a go with the new version CTS pots. This is going to take a while. I haven't decided if the new design is easier to wire or not. Just a question for John H., I was wondering about the capacitor values. Why go with 10nF and 33nF instead of a 22 and a 47? Does this circuit darken the tone, thus making lower values necessary? Just curious, because I don't have those values lying around. Just the 22s and 47s. Okay, nevermind. I was using my phone and my eyes are not great with small text. I'll try to stick with the PC screen from now on. But since I'm already here, would a 22nF and a 47nF end up being too dark and muddy? I guess I can find out and report back. Hi boctoc I reckon try with the caps you have. Cap value plays no part in setting the brightest tone, and its all about your own opinion of the tone when the pot is rolled down to max treble cut. Weve learnt a few things since 2006. On the diagram, there is a 1nF treble-bleed cap. I advise putting a 150k resistor in parallel with it, if you use it - it is better at keeping consistent tone as you roll down, and makes no difference at full volume. Good luck!
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boctok
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Post by boctok on May 7, 2018 8:39:29 GMT -5
Well, the strat mod is done. There was a slight learning curve with the new style CTS push-pull pots. The jury is still out on whether they are easier to work with than the old standard push-pulls. In a circuit like this, they get a bit crowded, so some thought was required on which connections to solder first in order to leave room to solder the later connections. Everything works, so I guess the end result is what's important.
A couple things to note, specifically with the new CTS push-pulls.
1. You have to use a solder lug washer, because there's nowhere to solder the grounds to the pot chassis. It took a while to find washers that are the correct size.
2. Since the pads are much closer to the three main lugs, it gets pretty crowded. I think the chassis of these is wider than the old ones, so they take up a bit more real estate in a strat cavity.
I went ahead and went with the suggested caps instead of the traditional ones and it sounds pretty good. I'm using Texas Specials and there's a slight difference in the tone from the stock wiring, but not that noticeable. A tiny bit mellower on the highs is how I'd describe it, but with a strat, that's not always a bad thing. This was also while running it through a small practice amp to test the functions. I have yet to run it through anything with valves, which will be the defining tone test for me.
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Post by fatmonkey85 on Jun 5, 2018 10:35:22 GMT -5
I have wired this up but the 4th and 5th positions on the the switch do not work? in the the other positions everything works? can anybody help?
thanks
Luke
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Post by JohnH on Jun 5, 2018 15:09:32 GMT -5
I have wired this up but the 4th and 5th positions on the the switch do not work? in the the other positions everything works? can anybody help? thanks Luke Hi Luke, welcome to GN2 We need some diagnostic evidence to advise here. the best thing is to get a multimeter (a $15 one is fine if you don't have one), and set it to a 20k Ohms range. Then set all knobs to max and measure across tip and barrel of a guitar cord plugged into the guitar. In normal parallel mode, standard strat, say you had 6k pickups you would read 6, 3, 6, 3, 6 k across the 5 switch positions. In the problem positions, you may read very low or very high. Series settings should be x2 ie like 12k for example. Now set to a 200k range and sweep the volume pot, in each switch setting. It should start as above at max, then as you turn the know down, it will rise to about 130k (for a 250k pot, or double for a 500k - you may need the 2M ohm setting), then fall to zero. Post a picture of the wiring if you like. Its often hard to tell much that way, but we might spot something.
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