THE WRITTEN SOUNDS-(how do you do it?)

[StratLover]

I am curious; amongst us, what is the preferred means and overall concensus of writing, reading and arranging a musical piece. Is it strictly by the books with five lines four spaces beats to a measure, chords and changes from paper to actual audible sound.

Or is it with guitar Tableture, something I really know very little to nothing about. Please help me along here as I am under the impression that TAB is a sort of shorthand for guitarists. I have seen the TAB and the actual music in the back of ALL the Guitar Rags, but I never pay any attention at all to the TAB.

Tell me is this something that will benefit me in the long run or is it something that really makes no sence for me to learn at this point in the game with my broad range of writing in the traditional manner.

I am always seeking ways to improve on everything and I got to thinking today as I was using the weed eater. I love it.....it's loud and for gosh sake IT has a STRING! ;D Anyway this overwhelming urge to look into Tableture has stuck in my head every since.

I got envolved in music really early at age 9 first a new SELMER(tm) Alto Sax and piano lessons then a jump in size to a Tenor Sax. Then that first guitar. Today it appears to be completely used up...........NO WAY. My 72 Strat(tm) is stronger and sounds better today than the day it came from the OLD-SCHOOL factory. But that still does'nt do anything about my new intrest of Tableture.

Having never used anything but the traditional means of writing and composing, I now seek an alternative that could be mixed in to make a minimalist effort.

All whom have composed or written know of my somewhat drawn out dilemma. 26 pages to produce 1 really good concise 2-3 page lead sheet that can be taped togather and viewed from a music stand.

All the people I play with read as well and the question of Tableture has strangely never ever come up, in 4 years.

I know there is someone out there amongst us that can give me a quick rundown on this. Heck I encourage everyone whom knows anything at ALL about Tableture to PLEASE leave a post.

[GuyaGuy]

hey, alto sax was my first instrument, too!

basically, TAB is only useful if you
a) already know the song, as there is no indication of time, rests, etc. and
b) can't read music notation.

what TAB basically does is show where to physically put your fingers on which string and on which fret. each line represents a string and the numbers indicate at which fret a string should be pressed. it does NOT tell you what note you're playing (E flat or C or whatever), how long to play it, or how to play it (i.e. piano, gliss, etc.), which is why you need to know the song already.
its one advantage is, besides allegedly being easier to read, that it always shows you where to play a note or chord, which isn't always shown in notation for guitar. so, sometimes its useful to me if i'm reading notation to refer to the TAB to see what position to play something in.

basically, if you're looking for a short-cut for noting ideas or passing them on to band members, TAB probably ain't it.

[R]

i agree tab has its ups and downs its very usefull for a beginner so they can can learn how to imitate their guitar heros by seeing where they play the notes not just what notes are played, but you will still need the cd or to know the song to play it right, then again there are some tabs that include the beats above the actual tab so you can use a metronome to help you play. while standard notation tells what to play and to what lenght it doesn't really tell you what key so you could be playing it higher or lower than intended well thats my opinion i tend to have trouble reading standard since i am self taught i found tabs to easier to understand but i may be making an easy thing look hard ;D

[Trey]

R said:

i agree tab has its ups and downs its very usefull for a beginner so they can can learn how to imitate their guitar heros by seeing where they play the notes not just what notes are played, but you will still need the cd or to know the song to play it right, then again there are some tabs that include the beats above the actual tab so you can use a metronome to help you play. while standard notation tells what to play and to what lenght it doesn't really tell you what key so you could be playing it higher or lower than intended well thats my opinion i tend to have trouble reading standard since i am self taught i found tabs to easier to understand but i may be making an easy thing look hard ;D

Wha?? The key signiture is the first thing written on the staff... If you know your order of Sharps and Flats you can figure out the key in seconds...

[RJB]

S-Lover

Basic TAB has some limitations. I've used PowerTab for a while. Both as a way of writing and downloading from the online archive to learn songs.

Free from www.power-tab.net/.

PT combines standard notation and Tab together, and hooks to the MIDI synth in your PC. Write your rhythm, hit play, and play along .

[erikh]

In every book and magazine I ever bought with songs transcribed or simple licks written out, there has always been the standard notation staff and the tab below it. I use both staffs but for quick reference, tab is easier for me. I can read music, it's just been while since I really wrote using the standard notation manner so I'm a bit rusty. Most of the time I'm playing by ear.

[R]

same here i tend to play by ear like i said im entirely self taught so the standard notation is hard for me tab seems easier but has limits

[StratLover]

So I am seeing by your posts that I am really doing the best that I can in my position. I'd love to be able to jot down 50 characters rather quickly and pass it on rather than several hundred, which is not very quick at ALL. A lot of music I do see in the music stores and in the Rag's has the chord configuration on the top or on the bottom of the piece for reference, as well as TAB in the Rag'.

There is a little more time involved for me at this point to write TAB since I had not tried it before now or needed it really until my curiousity got the best of me.

Now how about composition programs. I am using the newest version of Cakewalk(TM) HOME STUDIO. Within this program there is a fairly user friendly standard notation writing page. It is highly accurate as long as your key signature and tempo are right plus it carries over to the next measure if time is not available in the measure you are currently writing in. I thought that was a pretty cool feature. It does'nt change the notation because you deviate from it's capabilities as two others I have tried.

Does anyone have another that they are currently using, or if you have heard of a program out there that has gotten good reviews and want to share your find, I am ALL EARS.

[RJB]

For a more manual way of writing, I've seem some guys write TAB as a hybrid, where the number is the note head. Adding lines, Flags, circles, etc. to denote the timing. This was done on standard TAB 'staff' paper. Good LoTech solution.

[StratLover]

Pretty good idea, but that would be for a more personal way of writing. I like the idea though...........you could really develop a form of short-hand (only you) would understand and then transpose to Standard Notation.

Hmmmm could get confusing.

[emerlin]

Of course if the players you work with don't read TAB, the point is moot!

[StratLover]

Check That! ;D

[bam]

Second that ! ;D

[GuyaGuy]

you can show em your cryptic notation and quote miles davis:
"play the notes that AREN'T there."

[StratLover]

In my days as a Tenor Sax and guitar player in a jazz fusion group that was the way to go. But it is difficult for a lot of people to see those notes unless you have a really strong background in music theory.

The people I play with now are good musicians, but their inherent influence is to see it as it is, rather than what it could be.

It is fairly difficult for them to see the extra potential ANY piece of music has or they are capable of adding to it. This is another problem for a writer, because you are more or less compelled to write for them instead of the whole band.

I would love nothing more than to scrip out a pile of LEAD SHEETS and say lets play it....... and remember, there are notes there that are missing, but you should be able to see, hear and play all of them. ;D

[GuyaGuy]

know whatchya mean.
sometimes if you're playing your own music, you have an idea of what another instrument should be playing. so, sometimes it's nice to say, "ok, can you play THIS?"
but the excitement in making music is the collective element--4 people or so coming together and creating something together. i used to play in a band where i had to pretty much tell the keyboardist and bassist what to play, but i always find it more exciting when we play my song and someone plays the exact opposite of what i expected or intended.
anyhow, i hope someone pipes in w/ other notation program suggestions. i've gotten out of the habit of writing things down and so i'm a bit rusty. maybe a program would be a big help. even classical composers use em!

[StratLover]

Would'nt it be AWESOME to be able to play into a program and see the wave form translated into notation.

Why has'nt anyone come up with this yet considering the technology base??

If I had the Scientific knowhow, I would try to emplement such a program structure.

[GuyaGuy]

seems like it should work. in fact, i think i've actually seen such a thing, but a midi keyboard is needed. presumably it's be more difficult w/ guitar or wind instruments due to pitch bends, glissandi, etc. (that's right, i just used the plural form of glissando. you can't stop me! ;D)

[StratLover]

Ha Ha Haaaaaaaa!!!

I have Cakewalk Pro Ptudio(tm) which is "supposed to be" -----the top-o-tha-lyne----- when it comes to midi.

The ONLY thing it does'nt do is write for you. The wave pattern is displayed in the two forms, but when it comes to papering the wave pattern it is all up to you. There is a virtual piano that you can use to ASSIST in writing, but that's ALL it does and not very well at all.

Have you ever tried to play a keyboard instrument on YOUR KEYBOARD??--- ---Yea right------

I was totally AGLOW when I got it, but soon realized that I would be let down.

Bwahhh---haa---haaaaaa--- ---

I am still on the lookout though and hopefully if there is such an animal out there someone will put me onto it or I will stumble onto it like I seem to do everything else. ;D

[GuyaGuy]

it seems like i saw a documentary on either philip glass or steve reich where they showed the composer using a program like that. he'd determine the time signature and bpm and then the computer would record his midi keys and translate the notes into notation. seems like it would be simpler to display a note as notation than as waveforms, which fluctuate and change and give a detailed graphic depiction of the timbre, volume, etc.
i could be wrong. i'll ask my friend tomorrow. he's pretty computer/midi/tech-fluent.

[StratLover]

Oh so TRUE..........If you have ever studied the wave patterns in a studio setting, the first thing that is noticable in each track is the missing waves, or dead air.------This is Soooooooo helpful when recording.

It enables you to fill-in, if you will, and literally SEE where you either missed 2 beats or you need to augment the written form so there is a constant flow.

If you find out that the program in question does exist and is available on the market, I for one will be the HAPPIEST camper on the forum.---;D---

Like I said I have LOOKED high and low for something like this, but to no avail.