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Post by FireBall on Mar 18, 2009 17:08:27 GMT -5
Hey guys, I'm not very good at giving advice or tips. I feel that my playing and skills as a guitarist are not on a level to give advice, but I am going to share my thoughts anyway...
How much do you guys practice on vibrato and bending your strings from one note into another (phrasing) and while using vibrato? Vibrato is to me what makes a guitarist stand out. Also when you phrase one note to another by bending the string into a note. This takes some hand strength and practice of coarse. Another thing about vibrato is I try (but don't always succeed) to adjust my vibrato according to how the song tempo may be. A slower song, a slower vibrato (this rule applies to a singer IMO also). If you are into a part during a solo and you are feeling it, maybe you want to get aggressive with your vibrato.. this gives feeling. I really try to put time in vibrato and string bends. I still over shoot string bends from time to time, but I found the more I play consistently, the more accurate I am. You should also experiment, I have played with 2 1/2 and 3 note up bends, depending on the next chords, just depends on how aggressive your style is and what you are looking for. Practice your vibrato with each finger, even the pinky (its there, use it!). My way of doing a vibrato is from neutral position to slightly below / neutral / slightly above and back. I have seen guitarist go side to side like a violinist...but this sounds weak to me. On my string bends, I have always bent up, not down... but some guitarist go down, I feel my control is better going up (except the bass strings, then of coarse you go down). At any rate... this is my thought for tonight.
FireBall
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Post by sumgai on Mar 18, 2009 17:54:27 GMT -5
fireball,
I've got one word for you.... well, OK, two words, but they're one name: Jerry Donahue. While Hellecasters bandmate Will Ray has been called "The Man With A Bionic Hand", Jerry has been described as having seven fingers on his hand - ain't no other way he can bend not one, not even two, but three out of six strings at the same time, and all in tune!!
Google him, you won't be disappointed!
Me? You wanna know what I do? Oh, I use a floating bridge, sans the whammy arm. I can go either way with just a tiny effort, and at any speed to suit the song/my mood. My left hand technique is actually very lacking, hence the floater.....
sumgai
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Post by cynical1 on Mar 18, 2009 18:35:42 GMT -5
I've got one word for you.... well, OK, two words, but they're one name: Jerry Donahue. Well, I checked him out. Here's the video I found: Bass players don't know about stuff like string bends and whammy bars...we just stand behind the guitarist looking for the girls in the tight leather pants...but this looks impressive. Once I get my projects built I can learn just how impressive. I have no whammy bar on either guitar, so for me this is useful information. Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by lpf3 on Mar 18, 2009 22:01:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the video . Ok , I'm not as good as Jerry Donohue  but I'm workin ' on it . I love that sound & have been using the pick & fingers technique ( the claw ) for years . I find the double stop bends not as tricky as they seem - what strikes me is his choice of notes . To me that's sweet . Anyway , if yer interested , Arlen Roth has a great book " Masters of the Telecaster " which teaches that style in detail , covering country , blues , R & B , & rock . Comes with 2 CD ' s . Sure has influenced my style .  Dang , that Jerry Donohue even has a better beard than I do .  -lpf3 |
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Post by newey on Mar 19, 2009 0:24:58 GMT -5
I thought up and down was the way a violinist would do vibrato, and that side-to-side was more of a guitar technique.
I'm no good at any of this. Trying to bend a note and apply vibrato at the same time is one of the most difficult things to do on a guitar, at least to do it well, IMHO.
And I might be able to do a 3-note bend if I was using .008s- but maybe not even then.
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Post by sumgai on Mar 19, 2009 11:52:44 GMT -5
For those of you following along at home.... What I forgot to mention is that J.D. doesn't just bend three strings in tune, he bends one or two strings on each side of a string that stays put. More to the point, he doesn't bend them all to the same step above, they all move to a different position, i.e. one string moves up a half-step, one moves up a whole step, and the third might move up one or one-and-a-half steps. All while leaving the in-the-middle string unbent. IOW, he's making like a pedal steel player, and changing whole chords without moving to other frets. Don't try that at home, boys and girls, Jerry is a highly trained professional!  Oh yeah..... Arlen Roth is not only a good teacher, he's funny as all get-out. Plus, you can hear some of his work on Crossroads. Steve Vai gets the popular credit, because he appears as the Devil's henchman (in the finale), but in point of fact, it's Arlen who was brought in to teach Ralph the finger movements so that he'd at least look like he was playing corectly. But Arlen's guitar is what you actually hear on the soundtrack.... seems that there was a slight difference between what a student playing for only a few weeks sounded like, compared to someone who'd been playing for nigh on to 30 years. Check him out too, if you've got the time. HTH sumgai |
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 19, 2009 12:10:11 GMT -5
newey, I guess that depends from which angle you're looking at the instrument. Complicated by the fact that the two instruments are held in a completely different manner. When I'm holding my guitar in normal playing position, my vibrato tends to go up (toward the ceiling) and down (toward the floor). A violinst might say his vibrato goes in (toward himself) and out (away from himself).
I think we all understand the difference, but in case anybody's scratching their heads...
A violinist's vibrato usually comes from tiny little slides, I guess a little rocking motion along the length of the string. Since guitars have frets, this doesn't work as well, so we have to accomplish vibrato with tiny bends, perpendicular to the string.
My "style" doesn't use a lot of bends. When I do bend strings, I usually bend away from the nearest edge of the neck, unless that happens to be toward an unbent string that I'd like to sound simultaneously. I tend to favor using my ring finger for this, sometimes with another finger or two behind for a little help.
My vibrato is not anything I've ever consciously thought about. I just shake my hand around in a dramatic fashion when I feel it's required. I personally think that this is how the real greats accomplish it.
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Post by FireBall on Mar 19, 2009 15:29:53 GMT -5
I think vibrato is a important was of expressing what you are playing, especially in a solo. If the mood is slow in a song, then you wouldn't want to use an aggressive approach, you would use a more subtle type of vibrato, soft. If the song is building and you are building up your lead progression, then you would want to get into your vibrato's more. Find some of your favorite guitarist, especially the virtuoso type players and check them out. I had always admired Jon Sykes that played for Whitesnake, he had a unique vibrato IMO.
Newey, bending strings and using vibrato takes practice and hand strength for control, something I don't think I will ever master! The over bends I was talking about, I have seen Stevie Ray Vaughn use this from time to time.
As I said before, I think vibrato on guitar and a singers vibrator go hand in hand. If a singer uses a over fast vibrato in their voice on a slow song for instance, they will sound amateur. The good singers have that control over there voice, and they control the vibrato for expression. I like to compare singers from when they first started to after they been singing a few years, you can usually see the difference. I'm not much a country person, but Faith Hill comes to mind, you can tell how much better she got as a singer over the years, and its really apparent in her vibrato. Pick your singer you like and listen to them.
Nice discussion!
FireBall
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Post by lpf3 on Mar 19, 2009 16:56:09 GMT -5
I did just try that at home ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Maybe I'll stick with learning the right hand for awhile longer . I've been a fan of Arlen's lessons since he had the Hot Licks VHS tapes . I knew that about Crossroads , but I didn't know he was funny-do you know him or somethin' ? BTW - nice to see you comin 'round again . -lpf3 |
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Post by newey on Mar 19, 2009 19:40:53 GMT -5
Ash-
I was speaking from the point of view of a guitar neck. And your're right, the up-and-down the neck style vibrato is much more subtle.
My guitar instructor is trained as a jazz player, and he is continually trying to get me to use that style, as opposed to side-to-side, which is how I had always done it. Maybe it's a jazz vs. rock thing . . .
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Post by ChrisK on Mar 19, 2009 20:27:49 GMT -5
WOW! Youse guys ARE calling that there Frequency Moduation effect VIBRATO. I'm so happy. Why is it when one bends the strings on the neck to change the pitch it's called vibrato, and when it's done on the bridge with the tremo'Leo to change the pitch, it's called tremolo? After all, Amplitude Modulation (AM) and Frequency Modulation (FM) are the same thing, er, ain't they? Vibrato is done with the tremo'Leo and tremolo'o is done with the pinky and the volume pot. |
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Post by lpf3 on Mar 19, 2009 21:14:25 GMT -5
.........And then there's B.B. King .
-lpf3
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 19, 2009 21:45:34 GMT -5
Amplitude Modulation is adjusted by turning the Vibrato knobs on the amp, also mislabeled by our friend Leo.
The chick from Rasputina has the deepest (actual) Tremolo in her voice that I've ever heard. I often wonder if it isn't somehow faked or enhanced by way of technology.
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Post by sumgai on Mar 20, 2009 1:54:39 GMT -5
ash, None of the videos I could find showed her stage setup, so we may never know..... However, if one has the time, geld and inclination, one can use a TC Electronics pedal, or even better, a DigiTech Vocalist Live 4 (I have one of the latter). They do both AM and FM, and you can adjust almost every parameter you might imagine. But if you really wanna swing for the fences, then you'll go for one of them there vocoder thingies. I've got a Warp Factory (by Electrix) that'll let you input any waveform, and superimpose whatever on top of it. Needn't be a guitar, any source will do.... they even suggest trying it with a percussion trigger for gating effects. That'll imitate a square wave pretty well, doncha think? sumgai |
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Post by FireBall on Mar 20, 2009 5:58:24 GMT -5
I thought the tremolo was for dive bombs, airplane crashes, and incoming missile explosions... you know "electric reflections of war"....LOL ;D
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Post by sumgai on Mar 20, 2009 12:44:16 GMT -5
I thought the tremolo was for dive bombs, airplane crashes, and incoming missile explosions... you know "electric reflections of war"....LOL ;D It is, in Leo's world. (Can't say "was" just 'cause he's passed on, his world still exists, in a what promises to be a never-ending fashion.) 'Course, the unfortunate fact that no one could talk him out of mis-naming the effect on both his guitars and amplifiers has kicked off a mind-numbing amount of discussion ever since.  So far as I've ever heard, he never renounced his decision, nor expressed regrets, wished for a "do over", or anything like that. But then again, I wasn't in his inner circle, so I don't know the whole story. sumgai |
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Post by ChrisK on Mar 20, 2009 19:59:00 GMT -5
Which is vibrato. Since I use 6105 frets on most of my builds, a B. B.-like vibrato is easy to do just with modulated finger pressure (Fibrato/Fingolo).
......he wasn't a musician either.
That would be the Vammy Bar, or ok, the Wammy Bar. It could be just an issue of mixing our Wee's with our Vouble-U's.
It sure as hydrogenated heck ain't the Tammy Bar. (I was in one once, it was scary, especially when I realized that they all were wearing comfortable shoes....)
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Aug 19, 2009 13:57:06 GMT -5
I know I personally only vibrato while holding a note during a solo, at least a quarter note or longer. Normally I play with my thumb over the top of the neck, muting my E-A-D strings while not in use, but for vibrato the only thing touching the neck is the finger fretting... I can get a faster, more violin vibrato that way.
I was hearing about SRV using a circle vibrato, basicly doing circles on the fret-board (up-down and left-right). I have never seen a video with a close enough shot of his fingers to confirm this, so lets just leave it at that.
On a side note, country guitarists kick rock/metal guitarists butt any day. (Excluding that aussie that pretends to be a cowboy)
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but I'm workin ' on it . I love that sound & have been using the pick & fingers technique ( the claw ) for years . I find the double stop bends not as tricky as they seem - what strikes me is his choice of notes . To me that's sweet . 
