Old Framus wiring HELP!

[rbkxiiowe]

Hi. I'm struggling with this wiring for a 1960s Framus archtop. It should have individual switches for each pickup on/off and a switch for each pickup to whack a capacitor in for different tone (I think). It has one volume and two tone pots too.

The wiring has been messed with and needs redoing, but I just can't work it out. I know it's not on to straight out ask someone to work it out for me, but ... can someone work it out for me?

Here's some photos of the wiring in its current state:









Many thanks.

[newey]

rbxkiiowe-

Hard to tell much from your photos. Was it working at all when you took it out of the guitar? What, exactly, was messed up?

This sounds like a nice vintage piece, BTW. To the extent it may be of vintage value, you'd want to replicate the original wiring exactly. Have you searched about for a schematic?

[rbkxiiowe]

Hi newey. Thanks for that. Yeah it is a nice guitar - a '63 Framus Fret Jet, model number 5-114/52.

It's www.framus-vintage.de/modules/modells/instruments.php?katID=4627&instrumentID=3533&modellID=459&cl=EN but with two pickups.

I would like to replicate the original wiring but I'm not that good on this stuff yet. Hence the ask for help.

It should have the two switches for pickups on/off and two switches for different tone, then a tone control for each pickup and a master volume.

I scribbled this diagram



(which probably has many errors) for that arrangement, but it doesn't look the same as the original wiring as all the caps are connected to the console in the photos. (the console sits on the bass side shoulder of the guitar).

[ChrisK]

as all the caps are connected to the console in the photos.

What does "connected to the console" mean?


Both tone pots are connected to the volume pot in your drawing. As a result, both operate in parallel, with no respect to which pickup is selected, and are not related to any particular pickup. In essence, one is redundant.

It would appear that each should be connected to the pickup signal output wire at each pickup's ON-OFF switch such that it is out of the circuit when the respective pickup is out of the circuit.

[rbkxiiowe]

By "Connected to the console" I meant that the capacitors are all on the elephant-ear shape thing with switches, not connected to the tone pots as I had drawn in my (wrong) diagram.




Based on the photos of the wiring as it is now and on the fact that I know it should have the switching/control arrangement I described previously, can anyone provide me with a diagram showing how it should be wired? I know it's lazy, but I'm in England and the sun is shining consistently for the first time in years so I think I'm entitled to be lazy

[ashcatlt]

I'm, getting very little out of the pictures you've posted so far. I'm sure we can make it do what you want. Whether that will be the same as stock is another question.

Any chance you could give us some readings off those caps? That might help us figure out what they're supposed to be doing.

[rbkxiiowe]

OK sorry, it's not clear is it. I'll do a sketch tomorrow that should show better how it's all connected.

The caps are, as you look at them in the photo:

top left = 10.000 pF
top right = 10.000 pF
bottom left = 22.000 pF
bottom right (the fat one) = 100.000 pF

The red lead is to one pickup, the black to another. The braided cable goes to the pots.

[ChrisK]

rbkxiiowe is English, I'll translate;

top left = 10,000 pF/10 nF or 0.01 uF
top right = 10,000 pF/10 nF or 0.01 uF
bottom left = 22,000 pF/22 nF or 0.022 uF
bottom right (the fat one) = 100,000 pF/100 nF or 0.1 uF




While it will likely take some hystorical info to ascertain the correct wiring, things will last longer if you don't "whack [the] capacitors in".


newey posted this link in another "fishing session", it might be of help.

VintAxe.com Forums.

[rbkxiiowe]

Hey ChrisK! That's how they're labelled (labeled )! They're Italian I think - 'Ducati' 125V.

[rbkxiiowe]

Drawing:



There's also a blob of solder where it looks like there was a wire connected to it on the case of the pot with the green wire going to it.

[rbkxiiowe]

OK, I've found out what the switches are definitely for. There should be, for each pickup, an on/off switch, and a switch to either send the signal through a fixed tone cap, or to the tone pots.

[rbkxiiowe]

I'm not giving up on this! Here's what I've got so far ...



It's not right though is it? When both pickups are on, they still go through both tone controls. Can anyone help me? I'm losing patience with it!

[ChrisK]

It looks fine. When both pickups are selected, both tone switches/controls will have effect. Same thing happens in a Strat. When either pickup is selected, only its respective one will be active.

If you want just one or the other to be active in "both", let me know which one.

If you are stumped at this point, just collect your question (mark)s and make them into one.

[rbkxiiowe]

Ha! Brilliant thanks ChrisK. I'll wire it up like that then (with the question marks joined).

Are you saying there is a way to do it so that with all switches on (neck pup on, bridge pup on, neck tone pot on, bridge tone pot on) each tone pot will only control its respective pickup?

I couldn't work out how to do that with the given switches. I looked at the diagram on www.guitarelectronics.com/product/WDUHH3T1201 and it appears that on that one the tone controls will control both pickups when the 3-way switch is in the centre.

[ChrisK]

Are you saying there is a way to do it so that with all switches on (neck pup on, bridge pup on, neck tone pot on, bridge tone pot on) each tone pot will only control its respective pickup?

No.

What I'm saying is that we can use the unused pole/side of a pickup selection switch to enable a tone control section for the other pickup.

For example, we could have the bridge tone section operational in "bridge" as well as "both", and only have the neck tone section operational in "neck".

Or the converse.

Or whatever.

[rbkxiiowe]

I see. Well I wired it all up yesterday and it all works just like it should. I'm well chuffed

[cynical1]

And for everyone not living on an island in the North Sea:

Adjective: chuffed chúft
Usage: Brit

1. Very pleased
"I'm chuffed to have won"

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[ChrisK]

And for everyone not living on an island in the North Sea:

I used to wonder about their national propensity to holiday in Florida, but then I realized that they're only able to completely relax when there's a proper moat in place...... ;D ;D

[rbkxiiowe]

Thought I'd slip in a colloquialism for you seppos

[cynical1]

Noun: seppo
Usage: Austral, NZ

1. An American (especially to non-Americans)
- Yankee, Yank, Yankee-Doodle. As septic tank rhymes with yank.

Derived forms: seppos

Slippin' in the Aussie slang...aren't we the diverse group here... I just love learning new words...and I love the way the rest of the world sneers at us...until their overdrawn...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[ChrisK]

Ya, you betcha! Everyone elsewhere a'planet hates us.....because they can. We act obnoxious and self-centered.....because we can.


I love the bumper sticker that sez,

"If you can read this, thank a teacher."

"If it's in English, thank a veteran."


In the end, it's just all of us folk a'planet. Don't think for a minute that most folks in the U.S. actually believe or do most of the stuff that most of the planet thinks that we do (or believe).


I actually really like England and visiting there. My mother's grandfather (Chapman) was from Yorkshire, East Riding, Seaton Ross. I've stayed in Horsham (we have a company there), Slinfold, and Brighton. I've ruined shoes trying to walk on those fields of bowling balls that you folks call cobblestones. And, I know what a dual carriageway is, in a roundabout kind of way....