Series Wiring Question

[closeyetfar]

Hey, I have a Strat with two humbuckers. I want to wire them in series, but I have one question. Which pickup goes first? Right now I have the neck pickup feeding the bridge pickups former ground. So the neck pickup is the only one connected to ground and the bridge pickup is the only one going to the switch. Is this the right order or does the order not matter?

To be honest all i have done is drawn up a diagram, but that's how I have the diagram setup. I still cant wire stuff right from my head.

Thanks

[sumgai]

cyf,

In the words of James Hetfield - "Diagram goooood. Work from head baaaad."

Can you post an image of that diagram for us, please?

Long story short, it makes no difference which pickup is going to ground, and which one ends up heading towards the output jack. The only question I have just now is, what do you mean by 'the bridge pickup is going to the switch'? Don't you have both pickups going to some kind of switching, so as to have control over your tone? (Hint: diagram goooood. )




sumgai

[closeyetfar]

It seems to be working, when I put it in series I get a volume jump and the tone is the same but it sounds thicker. I now have a guitar with 9 sounds.

Thanks for the help.

To give you a better understanding here is a diagram I draw up:

[sumgai]

cyf,

OK, here's my take.....

Not bad, it'll work as you've shown it. But......

From the standpoint of building this circuit, I must point out that you've used two switches where one will do. You can get all the listed combinations by adding only one 4P2T switch to a standard Strat's circuit. There are several threads here discussing how to do this with various kinds of switches, check 'em out.

(BTW, Position #9 is actually Bridge and Middle in parallel, those in series with the Neck. Not much of a difference when dealing with three identical pickups, but that's not the case here. I'm sure there will be a very noticible tonal difference between having the Middle pup in parallel with both humbuckers in series, as versus in parallel with only one of them. )

From the standpoint of operating this hummer, I see an omission that might irk the user. Your list of combos notes nothing about what happens when both switches are pushed down. Believe me, on stage this will happen, no matter how much you (or anyone else) may deny it. As I see it, the Bridge pup will have it's ground going to the Neck's positive, and thence straight to the output. But then Bridge's positive will also be going to the output, via the 5-way switch...... uh oh. I don't think we're gonna get any tone in Kansas anymore, Toto.


While your solution is easy to design and build, it requires a lot of 'memory training' on the part of the user before he/she stops hitting the wrong combination(s) - those that are double down, so to speak. That's why we advocate using as few switches as possible to get the job done. Besides, it's usually cheaper that way.

Sorry to pee in your Cheerios, man, just tryin' to help here.




sumgai

[newey]

SG said:

From the standpoint of building this circuit, I must point out that you've used two switches where one will do. You can get all the listed combinations by adding only one 4P2T switch to a standard Strat's circuit. There are several threads here discussing how to do this with various kinds of switches, check 'em out.

True, but from the standpoint of building the guitar, I must point out that closeyetfar's design uses 2 push/pull pots to avoid having to drill a hole for a switch. There are also plenty of designs hereabouts that split switch functions between 2 push/pulls for just that reason- because it looks stock and can be returned to stock if desired.

But I agree, you'll eventually hit both knobs down, you should probably rethink that . . .

[closeyetfar]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies.

I wanted to add switches while still keeping its look the same, not to mention having to drill extra holes. I setup the push/pulls to make the guitar act as a normal Stratocaster with both push/pulls down. So the majority of the sounds (1 -5) are accessed with both push/pulls down. Raising the push/pulls gives you the extra functionality of of the (neck on) and series wiring. So if you did not know the push/pulls were there, the guitar would look and act as a normal Stratocaster with a 5-way switch.

As far as the knocking down the push/pulls problem is concerned. I have noticed I am more likely to smack the 5-way switch into a different position then to knock down the push/pulls. Also the push/pulls are installed in the two tone knobs so the volume knob almost blocks my hand from hitting them. Lastly if you run a Stratocaster you have to just learn to be careful of the switches, mostly the stock 5-way.

What happens when both push/pulls are up?
The bridge pickup shorts out and only the neck pickup runs. The 5-way needs to be in the bridge position for this to happen. With the 5-way in a different location the bridge is disabled as it needs a path through the 5-way to short. Normally shorts are a real bad thing, but in this case I'm only pushing like a 10th of a volt around with passive electronics.

Yes, all the combos can get confusing. But if I wanted music to be easy I would just give up guitar and play guitar hero, only 5 buttons to worry about. lol

[sumgai]

newey,

Points taken.


cyf,

I'd somehow reversed in my mind how those switches would work, up versus down. My point was, you'll be riffing along with perhaps the Neck On, and suddenly decide you want to do a Bridge*Neck tone. That means that you pound one knob down, then pull the other up, right? Well, in the heat of the moment, you may forget Step 1, in which case you'll frantically try to drop the first switch, while trying to not miss a note during your solo. Makes for some sweaty moments, to be sure.

As for a switch that can do both jobs, I was thinking along the lines of replacing one of the redundant tone controls with a multi-position switch that would give you three distinct combinations - neck on series, neck on parallel, and of course, neck not on (IOW, normal operation)

But that's just me, YMMV! ;D

HTH


sumgai

[yaux0005]

Love the hand-drawn schematic/layout. I'd collect that art to frame and hang on my wall if I could.

FWIW I personally don't find lurking "kill" switch settings to be much of a bogey man, and perhaps you don't either closeyetfar. I find the ease of manipulation more a factor and therefore try not to use push pulls for anything that I want to use frequently. I just don't think they are that user friendly when compared to a toggle. Additionally if you are like me you may have controls that you never use, such as two tone pots. Perhaps it would be more useful to replace a pot with a toggle. Just a thought

[closeyetfar]

Hey, well even though everything worked out it seems that a learning experience does have its bumps. I have a new problem that just came out of no where. It seems that for some reason both tone controls stopped working, and at the same time the guitar now has no treble either, it sounds very bassy and muddy.

When I first setup this wiring everything was pretty good. I tested everything including the tone controls, I didn't play it for about 3 days and now i have issues. The only thing I can think of is that one of the settings shorts the bridge out and that damaged something. When I pull both push/pulls up it electrically shorts the bridge out. But I don't see how that can damage anything being that its only milli-volts. I did pop the pickguard and everything seems fine.

Any suggestions on how to fix this or how to trouble shoot this?
Thanks

yaux0005: I guess im just experimenting with what I like and don't like. I have already decided that if I don't like the push/pulls, I will just drill a new hole and put a mini toggle switch in. That's why I want to learn to do this stuff myself, so if I have issues I can just make the changes myself. I don't want to be running back to a music shop every other day spending all kinds of money because I changed my mind about something.

[newey]

cyf-

You are correct that shorting the bridge coil won't damage anything. If the guitar was working and now it's not, you've either jostled loose a marginal connection, or a component has failed. The odds strongly favor the first.

First, I assume that you have ascertained that both pickups are still operating, by tapping each with a screwdriver while plugged into your amp?

For any meaningful troubleshooting, you'll need a multimeter. If you have the guitar all wired up and together, you can use ChrisK's brain scan procedure, found here:

ChrisK's Discerning Parallel Rsistances

This is found in our "Resources" section, and there is a parallel article on series resistances as well. You will have to modify the techniques a bit to account for the dual HB setup and the push/pull pots.

Post the results of your measurements in a tabular form.

If the guitar is apart already, you might want to direct your attention to the 5-way switch, on the pole where the 2 tone controls are attached. Check both those connections carefully. Is it possible that they are shorting together? Also, if both tone controls are grounded to a common point, check that ground.

That's my only thought, in the absence of more information. My thinking is that it is unlikely that you had 2 simultaneous tone control failures.

[sumgai]

far-far,

I'd suspect a short alright. Since you say that only the treble is affected, not the overall volume, then the first suspect is the tone circuit. Your tone capacitor seems to be always fully engaged, which in turn makes me think that the controls are, more or less, out of business. Use your multimeter to check for a short circuit across the tone control(s).

Did you perhaps install a 'treble-bleed' capacitor on the volume control? Incorrectly?


BTW, a normal pickup can easily produce more than 1vAC (RMS), across several octaves of the audible frequency spectrum. But you're correct, this won't hurt any of the other components in a standard guitar set-up.

HTH


sumgai

[yaux0005]

If you have the time and are so inclined, I would suggest opening it up and tracing your circuit from the actual wiring in the guitar--and copying it on to paper. Then compare. Mistakes are pretty easy to make when assembling, and double checking your work could show what is going wrong here. In my experience, it takes a lot of heat and soldering iron exposure to burn out anything. Especially potentiometers. Also, the less soldering, desoldering, and soldering--only to find out the fix didn't work, the better. Ben

[closeyetfar]

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