Super Duper Strat

[yaux0005]

I hope y'all find this worthy of the truly nutzoid schemes... My first contribution to the group:

Super Duper Strat (aka thanks DA)

This wiring scheme is designed for a three pup guitar. Inspired by Dan Armstrong's Super Strat wiring and challenged by the single PPS selection available in that setup, this scheme allows *all* possible 3-pup combos including all six PPS and SSP combos. Although there are "dead" selections, switching is relatively logical to players familiar with mini toggles, specifically DA's Super Strat (down = series, up = parallel). Volume, tone, and phasing not shown; add to taste.

Each pickup gets it's own 4P3T on-on-on switch, $15 @ through mouser. Mid position for each 4P3T is "off" for that pickup. An additional 3PDT "mode" switch (S1 in the spreadsheet) alternates between SSP and SPP, with minor reprecussions on other selections. There are no hanging coils in this scheme.

I am keen on Borsanova's Broadbucker sound; I chose to incorporate a ~223 bypass cap from the neck pup to ground using the tone pot p/p. I also included a neck phase p/p on the volume pot in my prototype. The 3PDT was placed where the neck tone usually goes on a strat. Kid tested, mother approved.

Feedback and corrections appreciated!
Ben




(Edited by Newey to show diagrams 2009427)

[newey]

Yaux-

I took the liberty of editing your post to show the diagrams. You should probably re-draw the diagram as it's pretty tough on the eyes!

Your post indicates you have already implemented this scheme- any thoughts on your results?

[yaux0005]

My thoughts:
The real added value in this scheme is the six SSP/PPS selections. Other simpler and cheaper schemes cover all the other pup selections.
SSP selections: similar to three pups in parallel, but more output, lower resonant peaks. Nice jangly rhythm sounds.
PPS selections: clear and bright, not muddy but more substantial than SSP's. The output is similar to a single coil but with higher resonant peak and less nasal.

The differences within each type (SSP or PPS) are subtle but discernible. I think that players who like plunky strat sounds will like this modification. You get all the plunky you expect from a strat with more options. It's like a whole bunch of "2" and "4" positions that have mated with series combos to cover a wider range of tone and volume.

I had been looking at the "94 Sound Wiring Option" on this page:
www.1728.com/guitar3.htm
The 94 scheme allows the so-called "compound" selections (SSP, PPS) and phasing but the wiring requires 9 switches (yikes!). My goal was to develop a way to get to all combinations with less knobs, switches, etc. I noted the convention of "up" for parallel and "down" for series in the Dan Armstrong Super Strat wiring and so I tried to combine these ideas. I discovered that 4P3T on-on-on switches, while expensive, are complex enough to accomplish all the compound and simple coil arrangements. Center positions are convenient "off" positions for each pickup and completely remove pickups (no hanging coils). I incorporated a 3PDT on-on to rearrange the circuit from SSP to PPS and vice versa. Viola, four switches, all strat possibilities.
Dead spots. I know that many players loath dead spots, in my experience they are manageable and not a problem. The switching follows a logical, visual order and avoiding dead spots is not difficult.

Here's a picture of my Silver Lotus with the wiring installed. The guitar is shown with (Neck parallel Middle) series Bridge.

[newey]

Thanks for redoing the diagram, looks good now!

Did you have any fitment problems with all the switches?

[yaux0005]

Only one small, avoidable problem. The Neck 4P3T is a hair to far towards the lower horn, perhaps 1 mm or ~1/16 inch. It touches the control rout wall and pushes the pickguard away from the neck / towards the bridge but not so much as to hide the pickguard screw holes. I was able to screw down the pickguard without any noticeable affect. I believe this could be entirely avoided by better planning.

[ChrisK]

Good post. It's nice to see further work on what had once been coined the "Side Slap Strat" herein.

It follows the thread of all mode selection in the most intuitive way possible.

A recent thread addressed this in the vein of a proper Brian May guitar. This was the the Brian May "Trilogy".

While unk had implemented it with the 4P3T center-ON switch (the 4PDT ON-ON-ON), it suffered from missing PSS modes. To add those modes, one could either use a mode switch as I had done in the SSS ToggleCaster, or use 8 pole switches for operational simplicity as I had done with the extrapolation of unk's initial cell design to 8P3T rotary switches for series/off/parallel and 8P5T rotary switches for -series/+series/off/+parallel/-parallel. The HSS All Mode 'Caster was only HSS due to a specific convenient implementation. It, of course, is fully usable for SSS as well.

sumgai, using the mode switch will enable the "Side Slap Strat" to be realized inclusive of phasing.


Bear in mind, if one wants to realize this with only three switches, I can get the 8P3T MilSpec rotary switch (normally $87 each new) for $12 surplus. This eliminates the need for the mode switch.

[yaux0005]

The more I use this setup the more I like it. I guess that's only natural.

It is possible to single-toggle between SS and PP with the mode switch. I understand that is a feature of the Tonemonster2.
To go between SSS and PPP requires two switch-flips. Without some serious case-specific wiring this seems like it will always be a difficult selection change. I don't know how often I would want to make that jump anyway.
There are obvious, straight-forward ways to go from selection to selection. There are some other, not so obvious routes also. For instance, one pup "up" and one "down" give those pickups SS or PP (depending on mode). Flip the remaining pup switch up or down and you get three pickups either SSP/SSS or PPS/PPP. Now flip mode switch... etc.

I wonder if three rotary switches would be easier or more difficult to manipulate... I suppose it's really three rotaries with extra poles versus four maxxed-out toggles. Also rotaries gracefully result in only one all-off position. Either way I may take you up on the $12 8P3T, those could come in very handy... I have inkling thoughts of HH switching using just such a switch. Where did you get the 8P5T switches/how much $$$?

[newey]

yaux-

Where did you get the 8P5T switches/how much $$$?

I suspect that information is on a need-to-know basis . . . ;D

[ChrisK]

Selection changes are always difficult in real time. This is why I added the 3/16" aluminum bar handle over the row of selection switches. It gives the operator a reference for the OFF position on each switch. I can easily use my right hand to quickly change selections (this does infer that one is going "pick-less).


In many ways, these types of designs are more studio-friendly than (real-time) operator friendly.

One is always better of using a 4P5T superswitch for the 5 or 10 "best" settings for real-time operation.

One of my favorite designs is similar to Atchley's "Double-Barrel Switching" where one switch selects one of 4 selections and the "special switch", which, in my usage is a 12 position multi-pole rotary. This gives 16 selections (12 + 4).

Where did you get the 8P5T switches/how much $$$?

Same same.

There aren't a lot of either of them available. The 8P5T one is actually an 8P4T one with a mechanical stop that has to be carefully removed. Its rotation is thence not limited. This takes significant skill since the deck spacers are tiny, ceramic, and quite brittle (the switches were produced in the '70s) and the wafer wiper sections are epoxied onto the shaft (adjustable is not). They cannot be disassembled.

I modified four of them, but am considering buying more and modifying them in a different manner.

[ChrisK]

You mention the importance of having both the PSS and PPS modes. I agree as I had posted;


This was evaluated as per the attached test table in all switch combinations and found to have some issues (ChrisK) with B+(M*N), M+(B*N), AND N+(B*M).

The combo’s returned B*M*N in all three cases, which result in a structure that has three times the nominal inductance and output level compared to one pickup alone. The alternate B+(M*N), M+(B*N), and N+(B*M) combinations result in a structure that has 2/3 times the nominal inductance and maybe 1 ½ times output level compared to one pickup alone.

The difference in output level is 2:1, and the difference in inductance is 4.5:1. I think that these alternate combinations are needed.


This gives a nice spate of realized pickup inductances (L_eff). Note that each number is unity-based, with each pickup assumed to have a nominal value of 1. If each pickup is actually 3 Henries, well, multiply.

3 in parallel 1/3
2 in parallel 1/2
1 in parallel with 2 in series 2/3
1 in parallel 1
----------------------------------
1 in series 1
1 in series with 2 in parallel 1 1/2
2 in series 2
3 in series 3

Note that these combinations are reciprocals of each other!

[yaux0005]

I suspect that information is on a need-to-know basis.

Ok then how about the 8P3T? Surely that is less critical to distribute to the unwashed heathens.

In many ways, these types of designs are more studio-friendly than (real-time) operator friendly.

That was what I quickly learned after building the DA super strat, my first modification. Actually, my first mod was accidentally replacing my neck pickup in reverse phase, and loving the phased N+M sound. That DA super strat though, definitely not a beginner mod... but it worked out alright.

One is always better of using a 4P5T superswitch for the 5 or 10 "best" settings for real-time operation.

After the DA super strat I also quickly realized that a superswitch was the way to go for a "live" guitar. That would be my second build, my five faves. I thought I was the only one.

One of my favorite designs is similar to Atchley's "Double-Barrel Switching" where one switch selects one of 4 selections and the "special switch", which, in my usage is a 12 position multi-pole rotary. This gives 16 selections (12 + 4).

My other latest design is a 4P6T rotary and a 3PDT in an HH PRS-ish copy. I call it the "Twelve Speed" (6X2=12)

This gives a nice spate of realized pickup inductances (Leff). Note that each number is unity-based, with each pickup assumed to have a nominal value of 1. If each pickup is actually 3 Henries, well, multiply.

Merely minutes ago I was looking at this and figured Leff must be "effective inductance." Great minds my friend, great minds.

The next thing I'm thinking of is using this scheme (Super Duper) with different pickups. I was thinking N Prails, M lipstick, and B StagMag with coil tapping and such. Then again I think strat coils exclusively is a pretty powerful thing, using 3 different coils is just a different beast altogether and should be evaluated on its own merits. In that sense, I guess getting any and all coil combos ought to complement any set of pickups.

[newey]

Yaux-

I fixed 'em up for you. Got your back!

You were using "blockquote" instead of just "quote". Simply highlight the text and click on the second icon from the right, lower row. It looks like a page with an arrow coming out of it. This inserts {quote}{/quote} tags at either end of your selection, except with "[" instead of "{" .

[yaux0005]

I fixed 'em up for you. Got your back!

cool i suppose we can delete these ridiculous replies then?

edit "superfluous replies"

[newey]

In that sense, I guess getting any and all coil combos ought to complement any set of pickups.

Not all possible combos will give unique, distintive sounds. Several will be quite similar to one another. So choosing 5 or 10 favorites, as ChrisK suggests, makes a lot of sense to me.

Of course, "all possible combos" can be a challenging build, and thus satisfying to do, and the whiz-bang factor counts for something, too. But for real-world use, less can be more.

[yaux0005]

agreed

[ChrisK]

The 8P3T Rotary. Note that the shaft is 1/8".

www.surplussales.com/Switches/SWSealed-1.html

(SWR) M3786/13-0045


The 8P4T Rotary. It can be carefully modified to 8P5T carefully.

www.surplussales.com/Switches/SWRoMisc-1.html

(SWR) K253

[yaux0005]

Super awesome fun time, and Thanks!!!

Designing is my sudoku / tetris / scrabble / chess / etc.
Pose a challenge then attempt to solve using a limited set of elements.
And now, one, two, possibly three more tools in the arsenal.
Lookout inexpensive Asian guitars, surgery happens.

[yaux0005]

Oh and I ought to relate a small but significant addition to the design. This relates only to modification for individual, non-master volume pot(s). An unused lug on each on-on-on pickup switch can be used to tie lug 3 (I think three, I can't keep 'em straight) of the pup volume pot to the hot side of the pickup when in SERIES mode. This allows blending without introducing series resistance to the chain. It also introduces a false master volume in some 2 pickup parallel combinations, namely one pup switch "up", one pup switch "down" and mode switch "down". A fair trade off in my opinion. Mode "up", parallel, 2 pickup combinations work as usual.

[ChrisK]

...when in SERIES mode. This allows blending without introducing series resistance to the chain.

Yep! Series series resistance can be a serious issue.
Series_Parallel Blend Pot w/ DPDT switch

[yaux0005]

Yeah I checked out that and the tonemonster2. I forget if that is your work. Most impressive. After buying a couple of Stew-mac "blend" (read: not blend) pots I became very disheartened and gave up on blend designs. I have come to realize I tend to prefer three pickups anyway so master or individual volumes are now my M.O.
Ben

[ChrisK]

...the tonemonster2

No, the Tonemonster2 is not mine, but I take full blame for My "Proper" Telecopy.

I do like the ability to blend in pickups.

[yaux0005]

Yes yes. I am already working on a second guitar with this S.D.S. wiring. Here's the break down:

* HSH: 5 strat copy single coils NS-S-SN
* internal and external neck and bridge HB phasing using toggles or slides not sure (two 3T switches)
* two 4P5T blade switches to allow HB parallel, S coil, shunt off, N coil, HB series for each neck and bridge
* 3 dual concentric volume/tone pots, 1 @ pup
* this so-called "super duper strat" wiring
* a global circuit phase to go from ground-PPS-hot to ground-SPP-hot, etc. (for broadbucking purposes)

I think that's everything. I know it probably sounds like overkill and excessively complex but I get modular with it and layout the controls in a visually logically manner. I need to satisfy my curiosity. For instance broadbucking with ground-bridge-(neck and mid parallel)-out. Twist that bridge tone down and see what happens. Try another similar selection with say mid to ground, with low tone in series with the others. Compare and contrast.

Also I happen to have a Lotus Strat copy with extra routing (no additional routing required for the above) that plays well but is made out of the cheapest plywood I've ever seen... this stuff flakes off like well done fish. (Makes me extremely skeptical of oak guitar nay-sayers). The pickguard real estate is already available so why not use it I figure? I like the idea of having at least one guitar setup as a prototype / testbed to find the really personalized pickup selections that I can work into a stock appearance strat.

Being able to blend bridge HB internally phased and parallel, out of phase broadbucking neck HB internally series, in compound arrangement with the mid pickup is something I want to be among the first to hear. And hey, it really isn't that complicated with a proper planning and a good set of drawings.