Tremolo Newb

[razbo]

Hi. To get to the point, I am looking for recommendations for a tremolo system. I am turtle-ing along to actually laying tool to wood on a (hybrid Strat HSS style thing) and plan to have a tremolo system. I understand recommendations are greatly subjective, however, I am a listening sponge on ideas right now, so please indulge me.

Thing is, I've been reading some nasty stories about Floyd Rose and other systems being hard to get into tune and keep in tune... almost sounds like it's not worth it!

For the record, I would be happier with less sustain and greater tuning stability. I'd rather the honkin' biggest, ugliest unit than the most elite FR if I it meant I had to mess with it less.

Does anyone have any ideas?

[ChrisK]

Yeah, use a vibrato.

The tremo'Leo is a misnomer.

While difficult to change strings thereon, the FR are thought to have the better stability, or so I've heard. The vintage 6 screw tremo'Leo is a bit of an abomination or at least wishful thinking.

I used the 6 string vibrato on some of my Strat copy builds, but fix them so they do not operate (much). The 2 screw Fender American vibratos on my Strats seem to work well.

I had an Ibanez S2020X with the FR vibrato; it was excellent for tuning stability.

[razbo]

Couple of days and no nay-sayers or detractors. From what I've seen on this board, that's pretty rare, so FR must be da bomb!!

Guess I'll go for the Schaller unit just 'cause it has a cleaner look. I trust the 14" radius is not going to be a driving force behind my fret radius? I'd been planning on 10 inch.

[ChrisK]

Hmmm, a 14" fixed saddle radius may be an issue with a 10" cylindrical neck radius. The saddles will be higher on the outside strings as the inner two strings will need to be high enough to eliminate fretting out.

[razbo]

Hmmm, I dunno what to say. I can find no variation on the 14" radius on the FR bridge anywhere. Another FR version (Pro) quite specifically states all are 12" radius and goes on to list a variety of nut radius to be sold with it from 9.5 to 17", same as the FR Original (12") or Schaller FR; they all come in only one radius but with a variety of nut options.

Plus, these are advertised as Strat retrofits, which are 9.75" radius necks, if I am not mistaken. Weird.

From reading around, there is discussion that indicates there is an included shim, but nothing mentioned on FR, Warmoth or StewMac sites about it. (That I could find.) Guess I'll just have to see when it gets here.

p.s. I only just now noticed I said I wanted 10" radius in my last post, not 12" as I'd intended. Proofread FTL as some folks say.

[ChrisK]

Plus, these are advertised as Strat retrofits, which are 9.75" radius necks, if I am not mistaken.

Yes, except for those that are 7.25".

[razbo]

May 2, 2009 21:40:40 GMT -5 ChrisK said:

Yes, except for those that are 7.25".

Wow, even more to the point! Well, my box of future toy should be on an airplane Monday morning, so I soon shall see.

[murrayatuptown]

OK, so I'm not crazy (no more than before).

I couldn't seem to make a wooden wedge the right size to fit underneath a Frankenstrat when tuning new strings, so I stick a piece of 1/8" aluminum plate between the tremelo and the body, get some tension on all 6 strings (normally I guess you don't take them all off, but this was a first-time build instance), tune low E, Tune A, repeat low E and A and so on, adjusting the previous string(s) if needed to compensate for the interaction between the tremelo springs and each successive string's tension change.

By the time I get to B, there's very little interaction. When they are all tuned, the 1/8" plate slips out. I think this worked out because I must have somehow got it initially set up OK ... I think I have blocked that trauma from my mind.

So this process seems normal to me since it's the first such guitar I have hacked together., and I didn't know any better!

Others who played it were fine until they tried retuning...my tremelo
is 'floating' - it will go about 1/2 step + and -.

Is the wedge or plate method essential or a crutch? I guess most people aren't going to have either in their case (or hand) while playing.

I >think< it's obvious to me that if you have a Strat-style 6-screw tremelo and set it up to work up and down, then you better be prepared to have a methodical tuning procedure.

Two guys at work said you don't set up these up to do anything but lower pitch, but I have a friend who is a luthier, and he said I set it up right and to ignore the other guys.



Thanks

Murray

[sumgai]

Murray,

You're spot on, kiss off your non-luthier workmates.

The wedge is not a crutch, it's a short-cut approved by yours truly. Of course, it does depend on the s(p|t)rings being already set up in the desired working order. If you break a string, you just replace it, tune up and continue to march. If you change the whole set at once, as I do, then you insert the wedge, hold it in place as you detune the E-string, and it will sit right there until you've gotten all six new strings on, and are very nearly in tune again. When it drops out of it's own accord, a few minor tweaks should be all that's necessary to restore you to harmonic bliss. ;D

BTW, I use a wedge made of a soft-wood so the tone-block can get a bite into it and hold it in place. A metal wedge would not hold nearly as well. In fact, I can conceive where the spring pressure behind the tone-block would actually squeeze the metal wedge out of place.

HTH



sumgai

[murrayatuptown]

Yes, the metal piece does 'react' to the bridge...but so far repeatedly the same. The 1/8"x 1.5" x 2" plate does angle upward away from the body, but at the end the bridge-body distance is closer to the 5 mm others mentioned.

I can stop thinking about this now. Thanks for the help!

Murray

[axekicker]

Check out Super-Vee as an option. It gives you double locking stability like a floyd, but only requires standard strat routing and no modification to your neck. Having said that, I've never played one, I only have Floyds which are extremely stable systems but require more wood loss which can affect tone. You can compensate for this with a big brass tone block from Floydupgrages.com, which makes a huge tone difference and will compensate for the loss of wood. Avoid Kahler. Maybe they've changed since the early 90s, but when I flirted with Kahler, it was a disaster. The bridge isn't locking, and the string has to travel over too much metal which is a major tone sucker. And pulling up on the bar busts strings like crazy. Frankly, if you're not playing hard rock or metal, a good Fender bridge with some Bends Nut Sauce will keep you in tune for the occasional dive bomb and pull up to a third.