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Post by angelodp on Jun 7, 2009 23:45:05 GMT -5
It's late sunday but I though I would see if any of the astute minds here would give this a shot. Project idea - Bridge - P90, Middle - rwrp standard pup ( that is to the P90 ), Neck- Silver Lace. Standard 5 way switch, and 1- DPDT ( on, on, on type ) Objective - all the standard sounds in 12345 - including hum canceling in 2 & 4 - and by using the DPDT switch be able to get Series for the Bridge and Middle pups with one side of the switch, and normal in the middle and finally bridge on for the other position, Deaf Eddy has this solution, its pretty close to great for me, bu I would prefer to use a DPDT switch to the push pull.  ange |
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Post by newey on Jun 8, 2009 5:52:04 GMT -5
Ange-
That's a bit unclear. Do you mean you want this DPDT switch to give you B*M/normal 5-way/B+5-way selection?
Or, do you mean you want the one side of the switch to "get series" for either the B or M with the neck? Or in series with whatever the 5-way selects?
I ask because you reference the DE diagram which features several series options, not just B*M.
If it's the first one, you could achieve this by thinking of the switch as just a "bridge on" switch, with one side as "bridge on parallel" and the other as "bridge on series", with normal 5 way in the middle. With the switch to either side, it would give you the bridge pup either in parallel, or in series, with whatever the 5-way switch is selecting. With the 5-way at position 3, you'd have B*M/M/B+M on the DPDT.
I think that would be doable, although I don't have a diagram. But if you want series options for the middle pup as well, that's another story.
If it's the first, I believe something pretty close is possible. If it's the second, I think you'd need at least another pole on the switch.
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Post by angelodp on Jun 8, 2009 8:15:25 GMT -5
I will try to clarify. How can I achieve the same combos as DE but not use a push pull, I prefer a single toggle if possible.
I am going ( as does DE ) with a master tone and a master volume.
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Post by newey on Jun 8, 2009 12:50:16 GMT -5
Oh, well that's an easy one.
A push pull pot is simply a pot with a DPDT switch on its hiney. If you'd rather have a toggle DPDT, you can use DE's diagram as is- the portion of the diagram showing the wiring to the push/pull pot will be exactly as he shows it. The switch is just not physically attached to the pot; wiring-wise, it's identical.
Note that this is not a center on switch ("on-on-on") but just a regular DPDT on-on switch.
Before you start wiring this up, however, you might want to see if this design could be "fine-tuned" a bit. I, for one, would not like the redundant "neck" setting at both positions "1" and "2"* with the push/pull (or switch, in your case) up. There may be some other option if you allow others to weigh in.
*Isn't the convention with the 5-way to call the bridge position as "1"?
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Post by angelodp on Jun 8, 2009 14:42:12 GMT -5
Sure, weigh in by all means. But, I intend to only have a master vol and a master tone, so I will not have that additional pot that DE shows?? Can I simply eliminate that? Where do those wires go. I agree that it would be nice to have some other connections going so there is not a redundant position with the DPDT activated.... ideas?? I shall have a graphic shortly. ange Ok here is a new version with that pot removed and just DPDT switch, will this fly. Have yet to think about any possible additions to the neck, neck situation. See P/P out 1&2  |
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 8, 2009 16:54:42 GMT -5
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Post by angelodp on Jun 8, 2009 17:57:11 GMT -5
very kind, but too many combos for me. how does my re-vamped drawing hold up??
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 8, 2009 19:00:28 GMT -5
Not well.
In both your version and the DE version, the DPDT switch switches two separate circuits, but both to the same place, either time. The bridge green goes to either the signal ground or the neck white. The middle ?blue goes to either the signal ground or the neck white. Unless this is an error in this design, the DPDT switch can be replaced with a SPDT (you only need to use 1/2 of it).
This frees up one pole/section.
When you removed the one tone pot, you felt compelled to hook that switch terminal somewhere. You connected it to the cap directly. That terminal needs to go nowhere. In all positions except the bridge only, the tone will always be turned down to "0" always. In the bridge position, there will be no tone control at all.
The orange wire on the tone pot should go to the red wire on the volume pot, it's a master (as in the only) tone control.
Only the lever switch section with the pickup wires is needed. The other section can be freed up for other things. The red wire on the volume pot should only go to the lower right-most terminal (in your drawing) on the switch, and to the master tone pot.
I have not vetted the switching logic. Do you believe/see that it works?
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Post by angelodp on Jun 8, 2009 20:03:27 GMT -5
Oh Dear, are you saying that the DE version in its original form does not work. Then i should abandon it and start from scratch.... back to the drawing board.
I think I might be chasing a phantom here. I cannot find any other diagrams on the net that show a Strat with Master Tone and Master Volume, a 5 way switch and any other switch that will allow a series parallel setup. Except for DE which seems to be in errror??
ange
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Post by angelodp on Jun 8, 2009 21:08:53 GMT -5
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Post by ashcatlt on Jun 8, 2009 21:36:40 GMT -5
Oh Dear, are you saying that the DE version in its original form does not work. Then i should abandon it and start from scratch.... back to the drawing board. I think I might be chasing a phantom here. I cannot find any other diagrams on the net that show a Strat with Master Tone and Master Volume, a 5 way switch and any other switch that will allow a series parallel setup. Except for DE which seems to be in errror?? ange Oh, it works fine. He used all the lugs on the push/pull because they were there. ChrisK was just pointing out that it's not necessary to use both sides of that switch. This might allow you to do something fun with the other side. The answer to your question re: ChrisK's pic is the same as his answer to the tone pot in your altered design. |
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Post by angelodp on Jun 8, 2009 22:44:04 GMT -5
In Chris K's version, The push pull pot is a Tone pot with a DPDT on it - correct? So If I were to use his diagram with a separate tone pot and a DPDT switch would it function in the same way. I just don't want to use a push pull pot. I would love to get rid of the extra tone pot but I can live with that and a DPDT switch. What is the value of the cap in Chris's diagram on the PP - .022? Ok, I had a go at modifying Chris's drawing ( hope that is ok as a way of moving forward ), I removed the Pot and the jumper on the 5 way switch. Will this then fly.... achieve all the described settings in Chris's drawing ( minus th extra tone pot ). thanks for your patience ange  |
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Post by newey on Jun 9, 2009 5:56:02 GMT -5
Ange-
Go back and reread what ChrisK said in #7 above regarding wiring the tone control to be a master tone. You didn't change the wiring to the tone pot. Since you want a master tone control, you don't want it to be switched on and off- so get it off of the switch.
In std Strat control pot wiring, there is a tone control for the neck and one for the middle pup. You have just eliminated the middle pup tone control, leaving yourself with a tone pot for the neck pup only.
If you really insist on wiring the tone pot to the switch, it needs to be connected to one of the common lugs (the 2 end lugs that are jumpered together in your diagram). But as ChrisK noted, there is no need or reason to do so. Just wire it to the volume pot as instructed. The volume pot is wired to one of the common switch lugs, and the tone pot is wired off the volume pot. Both will thus always be operational.
The cap values are not specified in Chris's diagram (nor are the pot values, for that matter) since those are a matter of individual preference.
In his original "S-None" post, Chris said:
This is in reference to the cap wired to the DPDT switch, not the tone pot cap, which is likewise a matter of (a different) preference.
So you can season to taste.
BTW, the title "S-none" is a reference to the Fender "S-1" switch, which is a hard-to-find 4PDT. Chris's idea here is to obtain many of the same options using the simpler, and easily available, DPDT switch. Since it's less than an "S-1", it's an "S-zero", in effect. But "S-none" rhymes.
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Post by gumbo on Jun 9, 2009 7:48:59 GMT -5
I know ;D it's possibly a little off topic, but why does everyone seem to say that the S-1 switch is hard-to-find? Even in the remotest deep dark corners of Oz (where it's winter now, folks!) I can call up good ol' Evilbay, and find two-or-three sellers with both Tele and Strat versions on their sites...and these sellers are in North Am....your backyard, not mine... ....perhaps I'm missing something, or are you saying you want an ALTERNATIVE 4p switch to the S-1 because you don't like it? ....just curious.......perhaps it's the weather...  |
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Post by newey on Jun 9, 2009 10:29:13 GMT -5
gumbo-
You're right, they can be had on Ebay. But these are either used ones or ones someone has "parted out" from a guitar. Fender does not, to my knowledge, sell them, and I know of only one parts seller on the net who regularly has them.
When one buys parts such as this off Ebay, there is always the risk that they won't work, and often can't be easily returned.
Also, the S-1 tends to be a bit pricey.
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Post by angelodp on Jun 9, 2009 10:59:31 GMT -5
Once again thanks for hanging in there with me. I have changed the tone pot to be correct.... I see that now. I also have another layout that includes my actual elements. I wonder if the shield from the P90 pup is ok like I have it going to the common ground. I have DE layout also updated. i understand that the DPDT switch is redundant, but it does not harm. I am not sure I understand if Chris' layout is producing series connections? ange    |
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 9, 2009 11:46:44 GMT -5
Yes, N * M is neck in series with middle.
(N + CAP) * M is neck in parallel with a cap, both in series with middle.
CAP * Middle is middle in series with the cap.
This cap bypasses one pickup in the "humbucker" made from two pickups, and gives a more vintage, softer tone than both pickups in series, but a better (and somewhat humless) sound than just one pickup.
Note that this is with the standard 3/5-way lever switch.
If you use the MegaSwitch "E", different combinations occur; there is no middle or middle * CAP, these are replaced by B + N in the middle position and (B + N) * M in the alternate middle position.
This is my favorite use of this design concept as it gives the alternate combinations of a SSS S-1 Am Dlx Strat. It doesn't do the middle only, but I prefer B + N to that anyway.
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Post by angelodp on Jun 9, 2009 11:51:34 GMT -5
Chris, great.... so is the cap used to brighten things up? On my modded version of your drawing does it look like a "go". BTW is a N+B in series possible within this same scheme. Not using the mega-switch.
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 9, 2009 17:46:46 GMT -5
It should work.
Maybe, probably not. It is a symmetrical scheme where the middle is replaced with a cap, and then drives the bridge/cap/neck parallel structure when in series.
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Post by angelodp on Jun 10, 2009 0:38:40 GMT -5
Thanks again for all the assistance on this project. On the bench top all the positions seems to be working fine. I will string this up tomorrow and see how its sounds. I went with the DE version for the B+N in series. I will report as to how well it works tomorrow. Its a work in progress and there are some little details to attend to, but I think its gonna be a fun guitar to play. best regards ange   |
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Post by gumbo on Jun 10, 2009 7:31:18 GMT -5
As we say here..."Fair Enough!" Bought one fairly recently (new in bag) from electricguitarparts on eBay...the "Genuine Fender Replacement Parts" tag on the top of the bag lists it as P.N. 0061256000 ...this one was for a Strat (knurled shaft) ...yes it wasn't cheap when you compare it with a Radio Shack toggle, but.....at least you can buy them new...at the time, I did find at least one other seller who was regularly selling them, although from memory his major stocks seemed to be solid shaft Tele versions...however that seller did inform me that he was getting the knurled ones in shortly. FWIW, this all happened about a month ago, and was found through a simple "Fender S-1 switch" search on the 'Bay.... ...and I did choose at the time to ignore the often-offered parted out ones from the major seller we all know ...I guess it's also partly because we (down here) are so used to getting scr*$#d on parts pricing in this country that we just ;D and bear it .... (sigh!) |
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Post by angelodp on Jun 11, 2009 1:23:56 GMT -5
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