|
Post by morbe on Aug 20, 2009 14:40:06 GMT -5
Some one should change the name of this thread becuase it's become my own personal Q&A. You guys ready for the next one? LOL "Passive Direct Boxes" Background: I record in my shed, all outlets are up to code and grounded. My set up is simple. I have a Behringer 1002 FX mixer that is connected to muy computer via the Microphone in on the computer sound card. This picks up a mic signal that is recorded to very old but very efficient software (Acid 3.0). My guitar in connected one of two ways. 1. Guitar connected to amp/ amp connected to mixer via the Amps Line out jack. 2. Guitar connected to pedals/ last pedal connects to the mixer. My bass is always plugged into a chorus pedal and into the mixer. Now I get all signals into the mixer fine with out cliping in the mixer. How ever by the time the signal gets into the computer the signal always clips out and in order to get it to record in the software with out clipping out in "Acid 3.0" the volume from the mixer has to be like super low that I can't even hear what Im doing with out using the head phone jack on the mixer which has its own volume level. I used to jam with a country band where the sound guy ised to make me plug my old bass amp's line out to this box's input and the boxes output when to the mixer. I asked him what it was and he said it's used to take the signal to line volume. Now from what I have researched and compared with what I remembered. This is a direct box. Also reading some of the manual thi guy was wrong. I plugged my amps line out to the box's input and the 1/4 output went to mixer. From what I read the box needs to go in between the guitar and amp. and there is a separate balanced out (XLR) that goes to the mixer. That confused me a bit on how to properly use them. But will a Passive Direct box bring a week signal up to line level? or will it take a strong signal and bring back down to line level? and will it even keep my software from clipping out to begin with??
|
|
|
Post by sydsbluesky on Aug 20, 2009 15:21:46 GMT -5
It's not a perfect solution, but I fixed the same problem by running my monitor lines out of my mixer and through an 80 watt Kustom PA head before it hits the speakers. This lets me record at a low level, asmy mixer clips at a ridiculously low level, and still be able to hear what I'm doing.
Do you have an upgraded sound card, btw? Most sound cards record below CD quality. There are some nice USB/firewire interfaces out there for around 100 bucks.
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Aug 20, 2009 22:25:47 GMT -5
A passive direct box is meant to help interface a passive high Z instrument - like a guitar or bass - to low Z microphone input.
It performs 3 important functions: 1) Presents a much higher input Z to the pickups than connecting directly to the mic pre. This helps preserve treble in the signal.
2) Converts the unbalanced output of the instrument to a balanced signal. This helps to reject the noise which would otherwise be picked up during a long run from stage to mixer.
3) Affords a bit of attenuation. Guitars tend to have a bit more output voltage than a microphone would - in general and on average - and this helps to keep from overdriving the mic pre.
Some folks use a DI for line level sources. In this case the best thing it does is balance the signal for noise purposes. It also makes it easier to get the signal from stage to mixer, since you can either plug right into the XLR snake or chain XLR mic cables together. The "impedance matching" might help a little, but line level sources usually have plenty low output Z. It also will attenuate some, but not usually quite enough when used alone.
In your case, I think you need to use the line level input on your computer. Most soundcards have 3 jacks. One is the mic in, one is the headphone out, the 3rd is a line level input. It's not always labeled with anything much intelligible. It's usually something that looks kind of like this: (()) with an arrow point in toward the center.
This will be a stereo line level input on an 1/8" TRS jack. Tip is usually left, ring is right. To get both sides from your mixer into this input, you'll need a cable that goes from 2 x 1/4" TS to 1/8" TRS. Radio Shaft or your local music store should have one of these for cheap, or you could hack one together if you've got some spare cables around.
|
|
|
Post by morbe on Sept 24, 2009 8:02:47 GMT -5
You know I have been on a really small budget when it comes getting studio equipment. But I found the ion pro session electric drum kit. To be fair its a mix between a toy and intrument but actually acts as a very low budget drum kit. Comes with a bass pedal, high hat symbol, one other symbol, three toms. And a snare pad. With the option to add another symbol. I have mine configured to not use the high tom and made it a ride symbol. The foot pedals are a bit flimsy and get double hits sometimes, but the kit actually does not sound half bad. - got it at costco for $250
|
|
shredbare
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
|
Post by shredbare on Feb 17, 2011 15:44:20 GMT -5
Hi y'all; I just joined and am new to boards and forums, etc. I have a problem I was hoping someone could help me with. There is an electric fence within 200 ft. of the room I jam in. It creates noise in my amp. Clean it is a steady tick like a metronome, but when I use high gain or distortion the tick becomes an ubearable whoomp. Is there an easy, 'cheap' fix for this that won't compromise my tone? I was thinking along the lines of a pre-plug that plugs into the outlet before I plug in the amp. It seems I have seen or heard of such a device in the past but can't remember what it is called or where to get one.
|
|
|
Post by Yew on Feb 17, 2011 17:49:58 GMT -5
A surge protector could do something towards, it? there will probably be one around your house you can test with. (often built into a 1=> 4/5/6/7 adaptor, a chocolate box as my dad would say)
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Feb 17, 2011 18:35:58 GMT -5
shreddy, Hi, and to the NutzHouse! If the noise increases when you use effects between the guitar and the amp, then it's not coming from the outlet (meaning, not coming through your house wiring). Sadly, there's no way any kind of device between your amp and the wall socket could protect you against this kind of thing. Remembering that an electric fence is nothing more than a giant radiating antenna of 60Hz RF, it becomes even more important to shield your axe. If you haven't already done so, take a look at this article: "Quieting the Beast"Most likely, that'll work the miracle you're looking for. If you have any questions about that procedure, this is the place to ask 'em - that's what we're here for. HTH sumgai
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Feb 17, 2011 19:14:34 GMT -5
cynical1 may be able to tell us a bit more, but I'm pretty sure that most electric fences shoot big pulses of DC current down the line at regular intervals. Thus the ticking. In the end, the solution is the same. Shield the guitar. If that don't help, you'll have to shield the room.
|
|
|
Post by cynical1 on Feb 17, 2011 19:42:28 GMT -5
I can tell you that if you back into an electric fence in the dark it acts much like a surprise defibrillator... And yes, most are a pulse DC current fence with an escalating charge to progressively convince the animal in question as to the error of their ways in challenging the fence.
Depending on whether the fence is for cattle, horses or goats the amount of current varies. Also, solar differs from hard wired. Depending on the quality of the grounding on the system that can have an effect on the current flow and stray voltage. If the transformer is old or defective (which is all too common) it'll take everything from car radios and two way radios to guitars out with the noise.
If I was to hazard a guess I'd say you have a hard wired system for cattle with a grounding problem...or...like most electric fence installations...there's some other weird problem left over from the contracted installers...or farmer who read half the directions...or bought the system used or at an auction...with the carbon streaks still in place from where it shorted out with the last guy...
Installing an electric livestock fence isn't difficult, but of all the ones I've seen over the years I've only seen one that was done right. And when the snow piles up against an improperly grounded installation it pops the breaker and kills itself...so there's an option for you...
If it's a prison electrified fence you're even more screwed, as it's an act of Congress getting a vendor back out to fix a bad install for a State agency.
Shielding the guitar is probably your best option. If you're on the same circuit as the fence then get used to it.
Happy Trails -
Cynical One
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Feb 17, 2011 20:55:32 GMT -5
Ask me how I know about the DC pulse thing. OK, I'll tell you.
Way back when i was short went to visit some friend-of-a-friend's farm. We were way out in the fields, and I came across this really flimsy looking fence. It was just one wire! I took it in hand and had just enough time to say "How's this gonna keep the cows i-WOOOAAAHHH!!!"
Another time, was helping my grandpa get this other farm ready for the owners 4th of July celebration. He had much better fireworks than the local municipality! We built a restroom and were digging a runoff ditch. There was this wire running close by, kind of in our way. Grandpa grabbed the wire to move it... I can't repeat here what he said.
If the fence shares your circuit, you'll still want to shield your guitar. A normal "powerstrip" type surge protector probably won't help. A good power conditioner (furmans are best known, but there are cheaper models which work fine) might.
|
|
|
Post by newey on Feb 17, 2011 22:38:59 GMT -5
|
|
shredbare
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
|
Post by shredbare on Feb 17, 2011 22:50:53 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input, guys. I really didn't expect any responses so quickly. It IS and old cattle fence. The house isn't on the same circuit, but it is so close it some times causes static on any and all other electronic devices in the house. Every recepticle in the room is filled with surge protectors. I did this to protect my toys and to up the availability of places to plug things in. I never seem to have enough outlets. Judging from what you have all told me, I suppose I should've ordered that copper tape I saw at Musician's Friend. At that time, I was thinking, 'My guitar doesn't hum', and it doesn't any place else but here. I suppose this solution is fine for my axes, but what about when friends come by to jam with me? I just can't see myself buying and installing the tape for each and every one of them. I'll try it though, then, if they begin to complain I'll have a sure fire remedy and can tell them about this site to learn how to install it themselves. Again, I really appreciate the quick responses from all of you. You all seem like a great bunch of brains with humor people. I'm glad I joined and will be back frequently.
|
|
|
Post by cynical1 on Feb 17, 2011 23:10:24 GMT -5
Well, the first question is this. Is it your fence? If so, then run through this little primer: 21 Mistakes to Avoid With Electric FencingIf it's not your's...well...then it depends on how much you like the guy that owns the fence... If you're getting static discharge and that much noise from 200 feet away then this fence must be a real piece of work. The charger is either way too big for the pasture, or he's got it ramped up enough to stop rhinos... There are ways to short it out and kill it, but I'll wait for your next reply before I go into the gory details... Yee Ha Cynical One
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Feb 18, 2011 12:15:30 GMT -5
Your friends should shield their guitars, too. It'll help when they come to your place, and when they get on stage at the bar with all the neon beer signs!
I'm not so sure we should condone sabotaging your neighbors stuff, though it sounds like fun. Perhaps you could talk to them?
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Feb 18, 2011 13:04:28 GMT -5
Actually, if it's not your fence, then Mr. John Law™ is on your side. The sad fact is, no one really knows about things like this, but any, and let me repeat that for those of you who came in late, ANY material device which emanates a signal which can be detected by another device, whether similar or not, is subject to all restrictions as promulgated by the FCC.
Need I go into it further? If the fence owner is unwilling to straighten up and fly right, then you can bring the full force of the Law down upon his little pointy head. After the law is done with him, he will have learned to jump every time you say "frog" - he won't want to suffer through a repeat performance, trust me.
HTH
sumgai
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Feb 18, 2011 15:22:09 GMT -5
We've been installing a few electric fences round here recently, and I have not picked any up on my amp although the nearest is a bit further away than yours. The general idea with these things is that a very high voltage pulse is applied between the wire and a ground stake, once every couple of seconds. The fence is completely isolated from ground, so normally, hardly any current should flow, unless something is in contact such as an animal, to complete the circuit. In our case, it is quoted as having a voltage output of 7,500V, making the electric fencing by far the largest, highest voltage device I have ever installed. But its very low current output, so not lethal. When a horse encounters such a fence, it causes a facial expression like this.....(my wifes horse demonstrates): As to your situation, my suspicion is that there is something seriously amiss with that fence. I think either it is leaking to ground, or, there is something wrong in its circuitry. As Sumgai points out, there are regulations about interference, and I cant see any reason why most of the possible RF interference cant be suppressed, and still maintain the short sharp pulses that are needed. cheers John
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Feb 18, 2011 16:55:43 GMT -5
c1 is correct about a DC pulse being used to teach the animal the difference between acceptable and unacceptable (although I have seen one that used AC, and relied on the animal's body capacitance). But the fact is, in order to generate that DC pulse in the first place, the incoming AC voltage is converted to a higher voltage via a transformer, a very large transformer, as in, a huge radiating device. A voltage multiplier circuit is also used, and that too can defy all the odds, and make like a spark gap transmitter. But the bottom line is, it doesn't matter how the DC pulse was manufactured by the device, it doesn't matter that DC is all that's supposed to be 'allowed out to the real world', it's still a transmitter, pure and simple. The FCC maintains dominion over all things that can "make electricity fly through the aether", from Zero Hz (DC) on up to who-knows-how-high. If your neighbor doesn't cooperate, you can sic the big boys on him. Now, that's not to say that you'd want to do that. After all, you have to live with him, the FCC doesn't. Pets disappearing overnight, tires constantly going flat, lug nuts coming off in the middle of the field/road, gas tanks mysteriously showing signs of sugar, crops that come up sickly, or not at all, these are all easy methods of revenge that any "farmer" can get away with. Not that I condone these methods of getting back at someone, but if one isn't prepared to minimize these possibilities, then one should be careful about which road one travels, eh? Realistically speaking, if your amp is the only problem, the FCC is more likely to tell you to move to another room, instead of going after the offender. Like most government agencies, they will take the easy way out, unless they smell big bucks, or unless it's getting close to election time. Take all that for what it's worth, then try to talk your neighbor into doing the right thing. I have a feeling that somewhere in that web page linked above, there'll be a solution that both of you can live with. Good lucki! HTH sumgai
|
|
|
Post by JFrankParnell on Feb 19, 2011 13:01:01 GMT -5
<rant>The FCC is a wholly owned subsidiary of The Man, Inc. They dont care about you or yew.</rant> Most devices have that strange warning on them: (1) this device may not cause harmful interference, and (2) this device must accept any interference received, including interference that may cause undesired operation
|
|
|
Post by Yew on Feb 19, 2011 14:28:36 GMT -5
Why dont the FCC care about me?
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Feb 19, 2011 15:16:15 GMT -5
Why dont the FCC care about me? First of all I think you're a little bit outside their jurisdiction. And B: $$$$ Loosely translated, that's ££££
|
|
|
Post by cynical1 on Feb 20, 2011 21:54:52 GMT -5
Well, before we make any more lawyers rich, (no offense, newey) let me just suggest a big pile of wet weeds and assorted vegetation tossed over the hot wire. Spray it with a garden hose and wait for the transformer to overload and have an embolism.
Remove the weeds and wait for the fence to go hot again. Repeat until the farmer buys, or installs the appropriate charger.
A lot of these guys will install multiple chargers to cover an extremely long run, versus buying the proper charger for extended distances. This will seriously overload the fence line. Another bonehead maneuver is to use bailing wire to affix the wire to the posts, or even to electrify barbed wire.
If he's one of the less enlightened ones he's rigged the charger(s) with a large slow blow fuse that should take his electrical box right off the wall.
Not that I'm advocating this type of rampant destruction...but it's obvious his installation is unsound. This just offers them the opportunity to make it right.
HTC1
|
|
BigBob1962
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
|
Post by BigBob1962 on May 6, 2011 23:13:40 GMT -5
This could be something as simple as a damaged guitar cable... Have you played that guitar/amp combination anywhere else? Did you have any noise issues? Try a different cord and see if it changes anything...
|
|
|
Post by morbe on Mar 26, 2012 11:28:42 GMT -5
Goodness gate to bump. Okay, so i wan to get some of my ideas into digital format. I have a very cheaply made fostex recorder but i saw a demonstration of garage band. But for those who dont wish to drop a grand on a computer. Is there any software that comes close in the windows platform? And if so what kind of interface devices are.needed?
|
|
|
Post by cynical1 on Mar 26, 2012 13:28:23 GMT -5
Goodness gate to bump. Okay, so i wan to get some of my ideas into digital format. I have a very cheaply made fostex recorder but i saw a demonstration of garage band. But for those who dont wish to drop a grand on a computer. Is there any software that comes close in the windows platform? And if so what kind of interface devices are.needed? First off, what do you have for a computer to run this software on? Some software can be kind and gentle on your system, others can be brutal. The OS, CPU and installed RAM are three good points to address first. USB interfaces can be affordable to ridiculous. A good one for simple home recording runs between $70.00-$100.00. Related to all of this is the computer's ability to run the ASIO drivers most of this software runs best with. Audacity is free, will record from a simple sound card. You may or may not need a phantom power interface. This depends on the type of mic you have. And obtaining a machine that can run Presonus, CuBase, Sonar or Garage Band doesn't have to break the bank. Staying a few generations back on the PC allows you to spend more money on the mics, where the real difference is made. So, what have you got for a computer? What OS are you running? Do you have anything besides the Fostex to work with? Happy Trails Cynical One
|
|
|
Post by morbe on Mar 26, 2012 15:36:32 GMT -5
I built my pc about 6 years ago as a gamer. But i used the onboard sound card. As long as the program isnt graphic intesive which i doubt. But the video card is a bit out dated. The proc is still very competative though older i forget exactly which one i put in it, it was no run of the mill proc in its day im thinking it was the amd athlon64, 4 gigs memory. Im sure it can handle any music software on the market. Would have to remove my wirless card in order to install an interface card but i can handle that. Im still running xp. I just dont want to move up to a resourse hog right now i dont see bennifts since its only an entertainment pc. I have a fostex, that records well but it has no features for adding effects, noise gates, eq'ing. Its more or less a glorified recorder. I have a line6 guitar port but i was hoping to record atleast to tracks at the same time and have them show up as two separate tracks. And software with some bells and whistles.
|
|
|
Post by cynical1 on Mar 26, 2012 17:42:31 GMT -5
Your OS will allow you to run most sequencer apps and a fairly useful number of VSTs or VSTIs. You have plenty of RAM. The CPU may or may not cause you issues with the ASIO drivers. Trial and error will determine. Newey uses a basic USB interface to directly port his music into the computer. There are many different flavors out there and they can be had fairly reasonably. I don't know if you prefer to mic your guitar or if you come in directly into the Fostex. You may be able to rig an interface between the Fostex and the computer, but I don't know how the Fostex outputs. Based on the feature set you describe for the Fostex, I get the impression you're looking to move away from it. Most of these USB interface boxes come with some flavor of sequencing application. These allow you to record your tracks, edit them and manipulate several different tracks, set up effect or send buses...etc... The M-Audio devices come with variations on the ProTools software. Others come with a stripped down version of CuBase or Sonar. Presonus has their own sequencer, which is impressive. I looked at a lot of these devices and interfaces before I pulled the trigger on my current setup. I went a different route then most of the aforementioned things I've mentioned above. M-Audio makes a sound card, a Delta 1010LT card, which can be had on eBay for around $100.00 used if you're diligent. ($249.00 MSRP) This card has two mic inputs that Sonar, CuBase and Presonus read as ASIO inputs. A $22.00 dollar investment in a used Carvin phantom power box gives me the power to run two mics directly into my computer to record audio. And it's incredibly clean and quiet. Click me...I'm a link...The same card has multiple stereo RCA outputs, so I can mix and master through multiple systems. It even handles MIDI directly into my sequencer app. No hardware mixer or interface is required. It will run on a Pentium 3, so you should be able to run a card like this with no issues. Of course, I prefer to mic my bass and guitar, so this was the perfect option for me. A direct un-mic'd into the computer can sound a bit sterile. The VST plugins can modify that to a degree, but it will never match your true amp output with a mic. There, I said it, and I'm not sorry. You can still mix and master with the output from your PC speakers, but I can speak from experience in that these will probably be the only places your mix will sound good. The stereo outs from this card allow me to mix to multiple units to get a good rounded impression of my mix. The downside is you'll need a headphone amp to use headphones. Did you have any preferences on any of this? Happy Trails Cynical One
|
|
|
Post by lunaalta on Mar 26, 2012 17:59:09 GMT -5
There are several free recording software programmes around, Krystal Audio Engine comes to mind. No VSTi facility, but there are workarounds. It's a good, basic, no frills set up, good to get you going, and the price is right - 000
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Mar 26, 2012 20:23:46 GMT -5
To my mind, Reaper is the only correct answer. It has routing options unmatched in any other DAW I've seen, comes with a good selection of high quality plugins, and the $60 liscence fee includes upgrade through two full versions. It also has a scripting engine which allows you to build your own functional plugins if you're into that kind of thing. And with all that power under the hood it's actually really easy and straight forward to get up and recording and doing basic mixes. Then there's the extremely responsive customer service and active user community. You can actually use a fully functional free demo version forever if you're willing to wait five seconds every time you load the program.
No, I don't work for them.
I actually have two interfaces depending on what I'm doing. One takes 16 tracks at a time via lightpipe from a standalone recorder I own. My "home" setup uses a Pod Studio UX1, which I got cheap from MF and included a free upgrade to PodFarm 2. One instrument and one mic input which can each go to separate tracks at the same time. The mic input is maybe a little noisy (never A/B'd it with any other mic pres) and the instrument input maybe a little low in headroom (my "main" guitar is VERY loud!), but these I honestly find it perfectly acceptable for the things I do.
|
|
|
Post by 4real on Mar 26, 2012 23:46:40 GMT -5
I will give reaper big ups too...main tip. right click on everything. Also, it is extremely user customisable, so you are going to want to explore teh options you need and use. I know a good instructional DVD if interested.
However, if you want something a bit easier to use, Audacity works but is not anything like as flexible and such. Mixcraft is a bit more expensive perhpas, but is much like Garageband for PC kind of thing.
As for computers, I run mine on a powerful laptop. Reaper takes little resources itself, but anything like this with VSTs are going to eat up a lot of ram. If running windows seven, a cool thing to know is that you can instantly increase ram buy using a memory stick into a USB port.
An interface is essential and USB is good...I have an older edirol UA-25 which has two inputs as is typical,phantom power if required and midi. You really don't want to be plugging into a sound card.
You may well find there are ground loop problems and so might need to get some DI boxes. I have to use a 'hum destroyer' from behringer for my powered monitors and another DI (ultra-G) if I want to direct inject my amp.
Monitoring is important as if you are not really hearing what is going on then you are not able to mix things properly. Headphones are pretty important, I can monitor from my interface and something I'd be looking for as well. Good headphones, I have ATH-M50 audio technica which don't colour the sound too much and comfortable are a decent investment and one could use this to monitor if cant afford monitors. The monitors or stereo attach via the interface, not the computers sound card.
There are thousands of free VStis and effects of varying quality and this can be a little addictive. If midi things, one is likely to want some kind of midi controller.
But a lot of this has to do with what you want to achieve and use things for, the quality of sound tends to be much the same and many people are using reaper these days over protools and such professionally, in large part because of it's flexibility. There are other things like Alberton Live or Reason that take a different approach and purpose. Reaper is great though and inexpensive. It comes preloaded with a huge range of effects and such, don't be mislead by the plain simple interfaces on these things, they are extremely powerful and lots of variety, other VSts might look flash, but no one actually sees those graphic valves and the like, but the reaper thing has all manner of effects. Instruments not so much, but go to the many free VSTi reveiws and choose your poison. There are of course paid VSTis anhd such and these can be great. You pay for things like EZdrummer say, but there is a reason for that and it is more than a 'drum machine' with professionally recorded real drums...but there are a heap of other options there...can get expensive so bewere...oh, and the more you use, the more memory in RAM especially is going to be used.
My laptop with win 7 has 8GB inside and a further 4GB in a powered USB tower to make all the many USB devices required. Likely want to get a large external drive as well to off load big audio files and keep things safe.
hope that helps...
|
|
|
Post by morbe on Mar 27, 2012 16:48:58 GMT -5
I guess i should back up a bit. My fostek is really great light wieght 4 stereo xlr inputs and 4 other unbalanced inputs. I mainly take it to jam with buddies and connect a condensor mic in the room and it makes decent recordings decent enough for us to listen to and critique ourselfs. Its has some decent effects, but no eq. I would love for at the very least an eq for . the xlr channels. It does have eq "settings" but are almost useless. I would like to get software with an interface device if need be that can record vocals and guitar at the same time. I have a hard time singing without me playing the guitar. The bass and drums i can handle when the guitar and vocals are already layed down. Once the tracks are set i would like some basic tools to cut out the empty space noise and buzz from various instruments. Much like a noise gate. And some compression. But not over the entire master, i want to be able to adjust each track individualy before mastering.
|
|