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Post by newey on Oct 7, 2009 20:14:28 GMT -5
These days, even plywood is too expensive. How about OSB? martyb1 at the TDPRI forums has build a couple of these. Note also the asphalt shingle and roofing nails for the pickguard!
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Oct 7, 2009 20:45:21 GMT -5
Off-topic-ish, if I were looking at making an oak guitar, where would I get a body blank for it? or how would I need to treat the oak wood? I'm really thinking about it....
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Post by newey on Oct 7, 2009 22:54:05 GMT -5
WannaStrat-
I don't know of anyone selling oak body blanks. I suspect you could have someone make you up a blank for the right $$$ (bring lots).
Realistically, you're probably on your own as far as making up a body blank- and even that's not going to be cheap.
I haven't priced it in a while, but furniture-grade quartersawn white oak, for a 5 3/4"W X 20"L X 1 3/4"D board, will probably set you back $50 or so. And you'd need 3 of those for a body blank.
I have heard of folks making guitars out of oak, but they seemed to be mostly reclaiming old wood to do so. The problem is the depth- it's hard to come by 1 3/4" deep pieces of any significant length.
While you're sweating up a storm trying to work with the oak, you can also start lifting weights, to build up your strength to hoist the thing once it's built . . . ;D
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Post by sumgai on Oct 8, 2009 0:53:31 GMT -5
I'll throw one word into the fire: RESONANCE (sniff.... sniff..... what's that smell? ? And is it me, or is it getting a tad "warm" in here? )
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Post by lpf3 on Oct 8, 2009 5:02:44 GMT -5
About this whole oak thing.......
Your basic Strat or Tele type body blank is gonna be about 4 board feet. I think 8/4 red oak is about 7 bucks per board foot, white oak more like $10 - 12. ( 8/4 lumber is about 1 3/4 " after milling). Rounded off, you'll need about 2 x7 by 40 inches long. ( At the hardwood store only 1 edge is a straight saw cut, the other edge may still have bark on it , unless you wanna pay for the additional milling.) It's common to find oak plenty wide enough to make a 2-piece body, the kicker is that the lumber yard probably won't want to sell you a 4 foot piece, he'll want you to take the whole 8 - 10' piece unless the guy behind you wants to buy the cut-off piece, so you may as well make 2 guitars. ( Honest honey, it's cheaper that way ;D . )
As far as tone goes, thanks for the word, Sumgai. Different wood resonates differently which causes the strings to vibrate differently which causes them to excite the magnetic field differently. I can tell the difference between an alder Tele and an ash Tele, played thru a clean Twin at Guitar Center. As noted earlier in this thread , by the time you run it thru ProTools or play at the local bar I doubt if you can tell much difference over the din.
FWIW , I made a bass body out of red oak years ago. It was an Aria Pro 2 cheap entry level bass but with the oak body it had a beautiful full , round , bottom heavy thump not unlike James Jamerson & his old Motown recordings. I loved that tone.
For finishing , you can finish oak like any other porous hardwood like ash or mahogany. You'll need to use a grain filler if you want a slick lacquer type finish, or you can use any number of wood oils & go for a matte finish.
Good luck,
-lpf3
BTW, oak's pretty heavy.........
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Post by KIIMH on Oct 8, 2009 8:35:31 GMT -5
hi, siddsbeluski
thaks for notissing taht im' not jus a post-nasal abortion goen bad
i do'nt have a spacific favorite band (where, I live, I have misspelled favourite ... but I digest) ... i just have favorite sonsg. anything reely - so long as it restrikst the cords rekwired to the wosn i knoe ( g, d and c ). i've heard ther aer other corsd an i've heard soem pepel get up erly an hav jobs an stuff ... is taht true?
kyle
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Post by cynical1 on Oct 8, 2009 10:21:43 GMT -5
If anybody disagrees with me, listen to a Queen album, and attempt to argue that Brian May has bad tone. Amen. Brian May used an old oak mantelpiece to build his guitar, as I recall. Tight fits and tight tolerances along with the overall quality of the craftsmanship will have more of an effect on the overall sound qualities then the wood you make it out of. There are so many individual things that make up the overall tone of an electric instrument...not least of all is your style, attack and musicianship. You can drop $6000.00 on a Xanaduglowinthedarkwood guitar, but if your setup, frets, nut...etc is bad it'll still sound like a garage sale Silvertone... Why do you think the real big boys have a tech travel with them on tour... I think if you're building from scratch, the money spent on the overall build is better spent on the hardware and pickups, rather then a non-existent "Holy Grail" tonewood. But this is the state of the world...hyperbole sells and it is a common failing of the species to pander to the misinformed. Long and short of it: Paper mache guitar bad, wood guitar good. Happy Trails Cynical One
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Post by sydsbluesky on Oct 8, 2009 11:29:02 GMT -5
While you're sweating up a storm trying to work with the oak, you can also start lifting weights, to build up your strength to hoist the thing once it's built . . . ;D To those few that allow banner ads to shine through - I finally understand what that Carrot Top ad has to do with guitars!
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Oct 8, 2009 16:11:46 GMT -5
Not to be a smartass, but a suggestion to avoid the weight issue and the lack of thick boards, would be to "shell" out 2 or more boards, then glue them together. I believe the red special was made in a similar fashion. The hollow-ish body would be lighter, (louder?), and you could use thinner boards.
Here's where my lack of wood-working comes into effect, would it be strong enough? That's alot of glue, if you are thinking a 4 piece body. My area of wood-working pretty much stops at staining. If strongly suggested, I might be able to draw up a CAD file of what I'm talking about...
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Post by cynical1 on Oct 8, 2009 16:58:05 GMT -5
I have a friend in PA that makes hollowbody guitars in 5 sections. The tops and bottoms are bookmatched, so essentially it's a 3 piece vertical sandwich. All the additional meat needed for the bridge, neck pocket and various routings are a part of the middle section.
Somewhere around here I posted images of one he made out of maple and mahogany. Very pretty, nice weight and with two P-90's it sounded incredible.
Keep in mind that most modern wood glues are stronger then the wood itself. With a tight planed fit they are stronger then a solid board would be.
On one of my project guitars I pulled the trem-leo out, routed a step and glued a 1/4" piece of oak on the back, and worked a port and hollow cavity to just in from of the bridge. This created a hollow cavity behind the pickups and ports to another hollow cavity in front of the bridge.
I never took pictures...no digital camera...and it's veneered over, so I'm the only one who knows what it looks like underneath... Once it's done I'll put up some sound files...just don't wait by the mouse for them anytime soon...
Keep in mind that if you're planning to build multiple piece bodies that access to some fairly expensive tools are required. Some cabinet shops will plane your blanks during the slower winter season for a few buck. Don't even try this method unless you have access to a wood planer... And a large assortment of good clamps are a necessity.
I'd like to see your CAD drawings. I think you'll like the end result.
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Oct 8, 2009 20:51:41 GMT -5
I'll see if I can get it done tomorrow at school, I have two hours of assisting our tech ed teacher every day, and I really don't do anything.
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Post by sydsbluesky on Oct 9, 2009 6:58:39 GMT -5
Gibson has experimented with several methods of lightening up guitar bodies as well, don't forget.
Some googling can come up with nice diagrams of the different ways they have done it.
I prefer the drilled to the more hollowed out bodies, but that's just me.
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Post by pete12345 on Oct 9, 2009 10:00:31 GMT -5
These days, even plywood is too expensive. How about OSB? That actually looks pretty cool- kinda like something you'd find in a Mad Max film Back on topic, I personally wouldn't worry too much about 'tonewood' in an electric guitar. There are other factors which have a far greater effect, such as the pickups, amp and internal switchcraft
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Post by thetragichero on Jan 22, 2010 1:53:54 GMT -5
i upgraded the pickups, nut, bridge saddles, pots, switch, and string trees (but not tuners) in the affinity strat (maple neck, rosewood fretboard) that i inherited from a former bassist (also added two more springs since i never used the trem and the tuning/intonation instabilities were a pain in the butt) if it weren't for the fact that i loved how it played (but not sounded!), i wouldn't have spent a dime on it now i'm glad i did, since it sounds AWESOME the middle p90 is nailed in with roofing nails, too... xoxo
--chris
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tjnugent
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Post by tjnugent on May 20, 2010 9:58:38 GMT -5
I bought an Affinity Squier Tele that played really well for $115 and upgraded the following. Seymour Duncan Antiquity 50's hand wound pickups, Fender Schaller Locking Tuners, new pots, new wiring, new switch, the nut was fine. Now I have a great playing guitar that sounds absolutely fantastic. I cannot beat this guitar out of tune. The Luther who did the work also liked the guitar. He said it was better than any of the MIM Tele's he has worked on.
I very much believe that saving a buck and putting the parts you want on the guitar is worth the effort. Everyone who has heard this guitar and knows what I paid for it are amazed.
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mikesr1963
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Post by mikesr1963 on Nov 29, 2010 23:11:26 GMT -5
Squier Affinity Strat 3 piece alder body. Fender American Strat bodies 4-7 pieces.
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Post by flateric on Nov 30, 2010 18:57:56 GMT -5
Oak. Aye. I'm pretty sure Brian May's Red Special was mahogany, not oak. I'm told oak is not used much because it's so damned hard to work, it blunts all your tools and it's usually very dense and heavy, it's not cheap, but it gives a dark bassy tone. There are cheaper, easier-to-work woods that give better tonal response which is why oak is not popular.
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Post by cynical1 on Nov 30, 2010 19:17:35 GMT -5
Brian May's guitar is oak for the body and mahogany for the neck. The fretboard is also oak. Oak is a highly under rated guitar wood. I doesn't require any more sealing then ash prior to the final finish, it routes better then bloodwood, ziricote or especially purpleheart, and it is very stable once cured. Picture this as the back of a bookmatched guitar: Fiddle Back Red OakIt takes stains and dyes better then most exotic woods and if you ever get locked out of your house you can use the guitar to bash the door in...and it probably won't even go out of tune... The weight of oak, much like the weight of mahogany, can be offset by chambering the body to lighten the load. And if you mount a Floyd Rose into oak it ain't ever coming out... You know, I've got an extra neck I've got to fix up. I was going to sell it, but now the idea of a 2 humbucker red oak/maple top chambered guitar sounds a lot like project #3. Sadly, in the US, most people only see oak as firewood... HTC1
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Post by thetragichero on Nov 30, 2010 19:34:28 GMT -5
hmmm..... a mesquite/hickory tele for that bbq chicken pickin twang?
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Post by cynical1 on Nov 30, 2010 20:43:17 GMT -5
And top it off with a Rio Grande Texas BBQ Humbucking Set You know, the marketing angle on that alone is priceless...maybe we could sell sponsor logo space on the headstock to Weber or Kingsford... HTC1
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Post by newey on Nov 30, 2010 20:58:41 GMT -5
Speakers? . . . Or grills? . . .Or speaker grilles? ;D ;D
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Post by 4real on Dec 1, 2010 3:06:15 GMT -5
An old thread...But I've got a thing for doing up good lower end guitars and especially squiers... My Tele is a solid Ash body and marked "25th anniversary" neck plate...every bit of hardware and even the paint job was upgraded to high specs. The "stratosphere" is a good way to pickup up bargain original fender parts taken directly from parted out new MIA fenders btw. My strat which is my next 'project' is a mahogany "contemporary squier" similar in some ways the alder one above but top loaded HSS without a sratchplate. Plays really well and nice neck and finish. I was able to get neck and middle 'jeff beck' noiseless pickups (stratosphere) on auction and a s/h JB humbucker for it along with fender branded locking shallers...the original two post trem is plenty good enough on mine, but then it is a high end squier. This guitar is getting my "sanitized" (LOL) "hot Rod" treatment which generally means hot just replacing parts but working on sublte 'concept'...for example this emu leather bound pikup ring and all the screws replaced with black allen bolt fasteners...squiers can be (if you have a good one) ideal for this kind of thing Be aware though that neither squiers nor MIM fenders are built quite to the same dimensions and parts are not always directly interchangeable. Squiers tend to have a slightly narrower neck...my Tele's LSR sticks out half a mm either side but did allow to take the wider fender string spread luckily. I've had problems with bridges though in the past so you need to be careful to check all dimensions or adapt what you have. You can get 'asian' spec 'string saver' saddles for instance that sound really good to the original bridge. I'm reminded that the "artist"/Prince cut some of his best stuff with his Hohner copy tele. A lot of the 'sound' is in an artists hands, the playability of the guitar though certainly affects this. Similarly, the pickups may have more effect than the wood as long as it is stable...but then GFS pickups are rebranded artecs which make most of the pickups of cheap guitars as a rule (beware the hype)...so who knows it they will be that much better than a high end squier...mine had "duncan designed" HB in it that sounded really good. Another huge part of the "sound" is the amplifier and how a guitar interacts with it...this is often ignored by people working on the cheap...adding a lot of money into the guitar and expecting miracles out of a tiny practice amp or even the affects of digital conversion that can strip away the 'tone' from a guitar anyway. But yeah...go nutz on those old squiers, many make very fine players and there is no reason not to mod them as far as you want. You are not going to get resale out of them for the investment but you may well get a fantastic and unique guitar and unlikely to 'decrease' it's value...at least to you!
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Post by fenderbender on Dec 13, 2010 0:58:31 GMT -5
I know this is quite an old reply made by cyanical1, but felt I should mention a little bit of what's wrong with just this approach: "Don't even try this method unless you have access to a wood planer..."
If you were to run a piece of wood through just a planer before it was jointed you are essentially causing yourself more work. A planer does a fine job of making two edges parallel as that's what they were designed for. However, they are not designed to flatten wood. So if there were a bow the planer would simply follow along happily leaving you with a nicely thicknessed board that was not flat. Not always a good thing when doing tight tolerance work.
Jointers of any repute are indeed expensive. Benchtop planers not so much. So what to do to get that nice flat board? Make an MDF carriage/sled that you can mount underneath the board. You need to make sure your plank has enough length to allow stabbing a few screws in from the sides without showing up in your final cut piece. If you make small rails out of pine and put the screws low enough they will go beneath cutter heads without the worry of wrecking a set of blades. You do not want to screw up from the bottom because 1) it could warp the sled from the bow in the wood and 2) a screw run through your planer blades is bad.
MDF is reliably flat and cheap enough to make this an option. I should note that the boards and sled should be sized (width) fairly close to each other to prevent any nasty kicking around under the blades. It should also be assembled on the flattest surface you have since, you know, you're going for flat here.
I've used this trick a couple of times in the past and it works pretty well for what it is. Ghetto mods in the wood shop I guess. I personally used two layers of MDF for the bottom glued together and then the side rails screwed and glued on. Most benchtop planers have the capacity of nearly 6" in depth so the entire contraption all bolted up would rarely exceed 3.50" to 3.75" with a 2" thick board on top. Anyway, after the first side is surfaced simply remove from the sled and mill as normal.
Also, a bit of common sense is in order here - do not try this on very thin chunks of wood. I'd lean towards 1" being the minimum thickness for safety reasons.
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Post by morbe on Dec 21, 2010 14:03:50 GMT -5
I know its a bit late but I was going through this website where this guy actually takes fender squires and make stevie ray vaughn replicas. He has the outline of the chipped off and faded paint so you can scratch it off. He's got the SRV stickers and the custom sticker you can buy. Also he has parts list so you can order the black pick gaurd, thicker neck, and the pick ups he used. Every thing right down to the detail of the cigarette burns by the tuning keys. So I'd say yeah its worth it.
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Post by cynical1 on Dec 21, 2010 16:34:27 GMT -5
FB -
The planers we used at the pattern shop had pressure rollers working in concert with the rotary blades that took care of any minor warpage on long boards. This thing was probably 50 years old and weighed tons, but it did the job.
Honestly, if I'm paying money for a 4/4, 6/4 or 8/4 - 8"-16"W board and it had that much bow in it that I can't clamp and glue it later I'd keep looking. We generally bought 4/4, 6/4 or 8/4 blanks and planed them to the desired thickness depending on what we were going after. Honestly, maybe it was our supplier, but we always specified aged and dried wood and never had a big issue with bowed wood. Sure, it cost a few coins more, but we weren't building pallets out of it, and we knew we'd get the money back out of it.
I agree with your estimation that most benchtop planers are limited in what they can accomplish and expecting the same results from them as an industrial planer is folly.
Funny you mention the MDF sleds. We had a similar particle board fixture for cutting a fingerboard radius. Now that worked well on the smaller planer.
Good insights.
HTC1
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rockledge
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Post by rockledge on Mar 27, 2013 18:18:55 GMT -5
I joined this forum just to respond to this thread. I was trying to find out if my 2011 Squier made in China is Agathis or Alder when I found this site. I realize this is an old thread, but I think the following is still pertinent.
I am amazed at the misinformation I see about Squiers. Squier Affinity strats are normally made of Agathis or Alder, with from 3-5 pieces. The american/mexican Fender I had to strip because the finish fell apart on it was made of no less than 7 pieces of wood. I have refinished a lot of Squiers, and have yet to see one made of plywood. Making bodies of plywood doesn't make sense, making plywood is expensive and labor intensive.
I prefer Squier Affinity Strats to all others , including vintage ones. I prefer the feel of 60s era Strats to all others neck shapes, the neck shape and radius. I find that Indonesian Squiers come closest to all others in their neck shape and radius, as well as the feel ( I am well old enough to have played a lot of 60s models when they were new).
I prefer them as well because they most often resonate better than domestic strats, as in when I play them without being plugged in they chime better and have better sustain. I also prefer them because the necks seem far more stable. When I set an Indonesian , Korean, or Chinese Strat up they stay set up and stay in tune much better than the Fenders I have had. I have always had a beef with domestic Fenders in that the necks on them seemed to constantly change and need tweaking. I find that not to be the case with the Asian ones most often.
I also like the pickups that come stock in most Squiers. I have played many of them that often prefer their sound to the sound of domestic ones, even ones with such special high dollar stuff as Lace Sensors ( which I really am not real big on). They remind me a bit of the Dimarzio pickups that went in Japanese guitars, in that they sound like higher output ceramic magnet pickups. The cheap pots and switches that come in the Asian Strats are hit or miss, most of the time I have good luck with them but sometimes need to replace them. All pots and switches wear out eventually. The tuners on them are normally great, they look to me like good Schallers or Schaller copies, with the exception of course of the very least expensive models that have the old dog house tuners. Which, again, are no big deal to replace.
I prefer the Squiers, easily. I have an Indonesian Affinity I like so much that I refretted it with jumbo frets and put the David Gilmour active pickup setup in. And gig with it regularly.
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Post by newey on Mar 27, 2013 19:34:48 GMT -5
rockledge- As you can see from the thread, you're not alone in liking the Squiers. Even though you joined just to post in this thread, we hope you'll stick around and chime in elsewhere. No worries about resurrecting an old thread, we keep the old ones posted for just such an occasion.
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rockledge
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Post by rockledge on Mar 27, 2013 23:41:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the warm welcome, and you can bet I will be around some. I am an old guitar dude, but still very much active. I like guitar sites.
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Post by sumgai on Mar 28, 2013 1:04:06 GMT -5
I am an old guitar dude.... You can say that again! I looked at your profile, and Holy Bat, Moley-man.... you've got me beat by a wide margin!! c1, don't bother, this guy's so old that he can judge even me! (Standing joke here in the NutzHouse. ) Say, ya wanna buy a used AARP, cheap? ;D And lest we forget, Welcome To The NutzHouse. sumgai
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 10:02:40 GMT -5
judging from my chinese partscaster with the 100 USD body and the 100 USD (scalloped) neck, i also think they are great. *but* some material-mass has to be there in order to have sustain.
Sustain is a matter of perfect fretwork, perfect nut, heavy bridge and ... MASS!
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