naptime
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Post by naptime on Nov 23, 2009 1:33:05 GMT -5
Ok, I fumbled across these boards through a youtube video (i think it's the Random Hero wiring?). In the video, this guy was showcasing his strat which had the standard 5way single coil (sc) as well as 2 humbucker (hum) options. He routed 2 additional switched on the pickguard. One switch would toggle sc/hum and the other would toggle neck/bridge (only operational with hum toggled on). Here is the link if my description is lacking.
So basically he had the standard strat pickguard. 1 vol, 2 tones and a 5way selector... but with the additional 2 2way small switches. I am trying to figure out a way to get the same options he has, but keep all "pickup" options selected from the regular 5way strat selector switch and have sc/hum toggled from a push/pull or some other knob (that's the easy part, can be figured out later). The options layed out easier would be as follows
Single Coil Toggled (from the sc/hum switch/knob w/e): - 5 way switch would change the standard pickup options. Neck, Neck + Mid, Mid , Mid + Bridge, Bridge.
Humbucker Toggled (from the sc/hum switch/knob): -5 Way switch would now change the combination of humbucking pickup signals. Neck, Neck + Bridge (i don't know if this one is necessary or possible but for explanation purposes why not), Bridge.
I think I'm making this way too complicated. I'm sorry for this. My normal guitar board doesn't know how to do this so I'm trying to be as detailed as possible.
TL;DR: can a 5way be wired to select 2 sets of pickup configurations? ie: 3 single coil pickups (5 options) OR 2 humbuckers (2 or 3 options)
Thank you for any help or suggestions.
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Post by newey on Nov 23, 2009 6:41:56 GMT -5
Naptime- Hello and welcome! I assume you found the wiring diagram from our member wolf's website: www.1728.com/guitar3.htmIf your question is whether 2 push/pull pots can be used to do this, the answer is yes. If you're asking for a way to do this with just one extra switch, that I'm not so sure of- but we'll let others weigh in.
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naptime
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Post by naptime on Nov 23, 2009 13:41:22 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply! My question is the latter.
Specs: - 1 xtra button/switch to toggle single coil or humbucker mode - in humbucker mode, toggling options (neck or bridge) are selected using the 5way just like standard single coil selecting.
I'm pretty sure this is possible. I'll brush up on my schematics and pspice knowledge to mock up a try. What is everyone using to create schematics?
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Post by sumgai on Nov 23, 2009 14:27:23 GMT -5
nappy, Hi, and to the NutzHouse! I think I see where you're going, but you left out one critical piece of info.... Is your Humbucker split, such that each coil has its own pair of wires coming out? If it's only a 2-wire (or worse, a 'brick' with only one 1 wire and the shield), then your options are a bit more limited. I think you're asking if you can use the Humbucker as a single coil pup in the "normal" switching scheme, then when you throw the switch to the "new" switching scheme it replaces the Middle pickup with the remaining Humbucker coil.... is that about right? BTW, what's your "normal" guitar board? There must be quite a few of them on the web, 'cause we're the only Official House of Nutz! ;D sumgai
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naptime
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Post by naptime on Nov 23, 2009 19:50:33 GMT -5
nappy, Hi, and to the NutzHouse! I think I see where you're going, but you left out one critical piece of info.... Is your Humbucker split, such that each coil has its own pair of wires coming out? If it's only a 2-wire (or worse, a 'brick' with only one 1 wire and the shield), then your options are a bit more limited. I think you're asking if you can use the Humbucker as a single coil pup in the "normal" switching scheme, then when you throw the switch to the "new" switching scheme it replaces the Middle pickup with the remaining Humbucker coil.... is that about right? BTW, what's your "normal" guitar board? There must be quite a few of them on the web, 'cause we're the only Official House of Nutz! ;D sumgai Well I'd like to use this on my SSS strat so I'm guessing that answers the wire question. I want to preserve the 5 single coil sounds while adding some humbucker ones. My normal guitar board is ultimate-guitar. It's a broad forum for guitar and bass. It seems a more specific question is better served here
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Post by newey on Nov 23, 2009 23:06:15 GMT -5
SG- No, naptime is talking about the RH scheme, where he uses a SPDT and a DPDT to give series combos of N*M and M*B, the "widely-spaced humbucker" thing. A P/P is only a DPDT, so that's not the ticket. My off-the-cuff thought, (having not put mouse to MSpaint) is that you'll need at least a 3PDT- one pole to switch the neck in series with the mid, another pole to do the same with the bridge, and a third to bypass to the 5-way switch. And, additionally, is this the std Strat Vol +2 tones? If so, you probably need a 4th pole to sort the pots for the series settings. If it's a master V and T, you could probably get by with running both off one of the commons on the 5-way, and using the freed-up pole for switching the series stuff. Anyway, I think you're looking at a toggle switch to add, and probably a fairly complex one at that, if you insist on one switch only. But again, this isn't even at the "back of an envelope" stage yet . . . If you could live with 2 p/p pots, then you've got RH's diagram (via wolf), and the livin's easy.
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Post by sumgai on Nov 24, 2009 2:37:36 GMT -5
OoooooKaaaay...... Series instead of parallel it is. Thus, Take Two: nappy, Don't take this harshly, it's not meant to be. What you and I, and the rest of the Nutz here, are dealing with here is a problem of terminology. It's not germane where you heard the term "humbucker" when it was series that should have been spoken, but regardless, it was wrong. Short lesson (about 30 seconds): When two pickups are connected together, they can take one of several forms - they can be in parallel, or they can be in series. Additionally, they can be wound in the same direction, or reversed, and their magnet polarities can be the same, or again, reversed. When both of these reversals take place, the coil (or the pickup) is said to be RWRP - reverse wound, reverse polarity. That provides a way to sense the strings' vibrations in phase, while sensing hum and noise out of phase, which of course cancels them..... i.e. they buck the hum. Now, properly speaking, this action happens either in parallel or in series. (Look those up, if they've slipped your mind at the moment. ) The important thing here is, in either case, humbucking will occur. What also happens is the tone is noticibly different between the two setups. In parallel, the tone tends to be less "thick" or less "fat". In series, the tone tends to be less "articulate" or less "clean". <end lesson> It goes without saying that Strats (and just about all standardized factory guitars made today) are wired to supply parallel combinations, 'cause they're easier to build. Very custom jobs, and lots of home-made mods go for the series combos, for the variety of tones they offer. It's now obvious that this is what you are looking for. Which brings us to what you want, a parallel/series switch, and not an "sc/hum" switch. Fortunately, the answer to your question has already been solved, so I'll merely repeat the basics here. I refer you to wolf's drawing of RandomHero's diagram, found at the top of www.1728.com/guitar3.htm See that Pickup Selector Switch (the one without any label)? It's showing you only one pole - your first question should be "where's the other pole?"!! Answer: it's free and available for your use. ;D So how do you make it useful? That's the easy part. Just wire it like the S1 switch in the diagram. S1's center terminal is the common, so that's like the end-most terminal on a 5-way switch. (Shown as a little bit distant from the other three terminals.) The remaining two terminals should be obvious, they are the ones connected directly to the corresponding Bridge and Neck terminals on the "first" pole. (IOW, you can use short jumpers for them.) This will give you the normal Strat parallel combos when S2 is in "normal" position (really should be called "parallel mode"), and when it's placed in "series mode", you'll find that selector switch position 1 will have M * B, and position 5 will have N * M. Position 3 will, sadly, be silent. Perhaps this will be of use to you as a "poor man's kill switch". The remaining postions short out the Middle coil, so they'll just have the Bridge or Neck alone. ( Note: If you connect the middle terminal to ground on that second pole, then you will get the Middle pup in position 3, but now you'll also have it in positions 2 and 4, and the Bridge or Neck pickups will be dead in those two positions. Use this option if you don't want any "silent" positions.) That's as easy as I can make it, is that what you wanted? HTH sumgai p.s. Further lesson: Parallel combos are denoted with plus sign, like N+B or M+N, or some such. Series combos are usually shown with an asterisk, like N*B or M*N. That's not a strict rule, but seems pretty widely followed around the web, including here in the NutzHouse.
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naptime
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Post by naptime on Nov 24, 2009 3:48:52 GMT -5
Well I'm still confused but that's solved by reading some of the basics. I believe Sumgai has solved this. You suggested that through a simple modding of the random hero mod, we can create a series/parallel switch that allows for all these combos. As far as maintaining the standard strat outside appearance, we would simply be adding 1 switch (or toggle/button/pushpull)? I really appreciate your guys' help btw! I'm sure it must be difficult to sift through the layman jargon.
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Post by newey on Nov 24, 2009 7:13:06 GMT -5
Naptime-
SG and I were thinking along the same lines- use the 2nd pole of the 5-way switch. I hadn't thought this through as far as he had, however.
However, your tone controls are currently occupying that pole. So, some prep work will be needed to free up that pole, as I noted.
Let's see if we can get a diagram of this, showing the controls as well, and then vet the thing before you get out the soldering iron. I'm off to work now so I can't do a diagram just yet.
This, then could be implemented using a p/p pot to keep a stock appearance. Consider, though, the problem of dead or redundant positions on your 5-way switch. Adding a more capable switch can solve that issue. The appropriate 3-way toggle could give you the std 5-way selections in the center position, with N*M "up" and M*B "down" on the toggle switch. This eliminates the dead spots, and allows switching to the series combos with one flick of the toggle. But, it means an extra switch and a non-stock appearance.
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Post by sumgai on Nov 24, 2009 13:04:39 GMT -5
nappy, newey's correct, I forgot about the tone controls. But they're easily taken care of. However, you'll probably need two tone capacitors, unless you elect to connect the control's to the Neck and Bridge. Read on.... First, disconnect the two leads from that second pole of the switch. Next, connect one of those loose leads directly to the positive side of the pickup you wish to control, most likely the Neck. The other side of this control is still connected to the capacitor, and of course that's still connected to ground. If you elected to use the other tone control on the Middle pickup, then you'll need that second tone capacitor. One side of the control (the remaining loose lead) will be connected to the positive side of the pickup. The new capacitor is hooked up just like the Neck pickup, except that it doesn't go to ground, it will go instead to the negative side of the pickup. If you chose to put the second tone control on the Bridge, then it can share the same capacitor, as before you started this mod. That's because it also can be grounded. As with the other two pups, the loose lead would go to the pup's positive side, and now you're done. Both controls will now work in both series and parallel positions, but, while in series, both controls will work on both pickups (if you've selected both of those pups), and this will give "interesting" results. Most players find this useful, but YMMV. HTH sumgai
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naptime
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Post by naptime on Nov 24, 2009 13:43:33 GMT -5
Both of you have been very helpful! I do appreciate it . I'm basically hitting the ground running with this. A lot of what is being explained I'm hearing for the first time so it may take a bit for me to digest this. I think if I can mock up a diagram it would help me get a grasp on this. What programs do ppl on the boards use? I'm an engineering student so I'm familiar with spice and cad, but they seem like overkill.
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Post by JohnH on Nov 24, 2009 14:06:21 GMT -5
All good info above. Take a look at the last diagram on the first post on this thread: S-none switchI think it does what newey and sumgai are describing, with the clever use by ChrisK of an additional cap so you get different sounds in all 5 series mode positions, plus the basic 5. It works with just a standard 5-way switch and a dpdt If you want to draw diagrams, and have a cad program, then you can use that. I use MS Word for mine, other people just use Paint. Spice can be good for schematics, and you can set it up to help ypu undertand the frequency respons too, by modelling pickup proprties and cable capacitance etc. John
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naptime
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Post by naptime on Nov 24, 2009 14:59:38 GMT -5
I have to head out to do errands for the day, but what you've suggested is a dpdt switch which toggles 2 diff modes. The parallel mode which realizes the 5 standard strat options (well, with bridge + neck instead of just mid at 3rd position) and series mode which is the 2 series combos I wanted (my humbucker sounds hehe) as well as 3 more sounds. This looks like an even better option than I had previously envisioned! My question is, however, will this circuit maintain those options if I preserve the 3rd parallel position as my mid pickup? I use it quite often. I'll try to check in via my phone today. I came to this board on a longshot and what I've received is a think tank which has sup'd up my idea! This is great. Ty all so much. Later tonight I'll tinker with spice to see if I can replicate the schematics
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Post by sumgai on Nov 24, 2009 16:21:09 GMT -5
naptime, Yes, the cap from ChrisK's circuit does indeed give you additional tones, and fills in the silent position with it's own tone, alleviating that issue. Thanks be to John for finding that one. ;D (But I did say that your request had already been solved, and not in just one single way. ) Chris has drawn both a schematic and a wiring layout diagram in one drawing, you shouldn't need to do any more work, but don't let me/us stop you - if you feel the need, by all means, go for the gusto! The parallel mode which realizes the 5 standard strat options (well, with bridge + neck instead of just mid at 3rd position)... My question is, however, will this circuit maintain those options if I preserve the 3rd parallel position as my mid pickup? Come again? Both RandomHero's and ChrisK's drawings clearly show the Middle pickup alone as a choice. Moreover, neither of them give B+N or B*N as an option. Or are you working from something different than what's been discussed/shown/linked so far? BTW, he used AutoCAD, as do I for all my drawings. But nearly all CAD packages will allow you to export your drawing in some form such that you can convert the resultant file to either a JPG or a GIF file, and then post that to your host server. (My intermediate file format of choice is TGA, which is understood by many, if not most, graphics packages.) Use the Image tags (fourth from left, bottom row) above the Reply textarea to display your drawing in your message, and you're all set. HTH sumgai p.s. This Forum only allows JPG, GIF and PNG as images to be used with the Image tags.
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naptime
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Post by naptime on Nov 25, 2009 15:54:50 GMT -5
I hastily read the post and didn't see the part where he said the schematic towards the bottom of the first post. I was running out the door and just clicked on the link heh. It looks like this is exactly what I need! Now to learn how to actually put this together! Maybe I can find some old pups and electronics on ebay to learn on ha. Ty all so much! I appreciate it
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Post by RandomHero on Dec 28, 2009 18:34:18 GMT -5
*sniffs, wipes eyes* My little mod is all growed up!
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Post by thetragichero on Dec 31, 2009 12:32:21 GMT -5
Maybe I can find some old pups and electronics on ebay to learn on ha. Ty all so much! I appreciate it not sure if you've already done this, but i have a set of squier single coils/electronics i'd be *willing* let go for just the cost of shipping if that's any help to you xoxo --chris
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