Jimmy page wiring problem

[bmarsella89]

Hey, so I followed the wiring described in this site.
www.newenglandluthiers.org/contents/Articles/Tips_Techniques_Tools/JPLP_wiring/Intro.html

It seems pretty reliable. I set it up exactly as it says the first time i did it and i was having a problem where the bridge pick up would not work unless i pulled the neck tone knob, which would wire the pickups out of phase wiht one another. But then i realized i hooked the bridge pickup up to the neck pot and the other way around. So i switched the two pickups and now the bridge pickup is having the same exact problem as the neck problem had before. So i know it can be the pots or the pick up selector. I have to have a problem in the wiring somewhere??? But wouldnt that mean that the other pick up would work when i switched them. I really confused my self here. any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

[newey]

bmarsella89-

Hello and Welcome!

The bridge pickup tone pot is supposed to reverse the phase of the 2 pickups. Does it do so on your guitar? And the Bridge Vol pot does the same?

In other words, is it possible you simply put the pots in the wrong holes?

If not, and if the bridge pots both create OOP, then miswiring is the issue. More questions:

The Bridge volume pot is supposed to cut one coil of the bridge pickup. Does it do so? You can tap the poles of the coils with a screwdriver or other metallic object to tell which are active.

If both bridge pots, V and T, create OOP, and if the bridge volume pot is otherwise doing its job of coil-cutting, it may be that you have simply reversed the wires from the bridge pickup to the P/P switch on the Bridge V pot.

We're also assuming that the tutorial you linked to is correct. I didn't see a schematic there, but more of a step-by-step description- and I didn't read through all of it. But there are some less than stellar JP diagrams floating around the web as well. We further assume that your wire colors match to the tutorials, or that you have correctly transposed your colors to their scheme. Problems in any of these areas can lead to an unwanted OOP situation.

[JohnH]

Hi bmarsella89, and welcome to GN2.

The Jimmy Page wiring is a classic mod, of which there are many different variations. The site that you pointed to seems very thorough, and it is based on the Seymour Duncan version of the mod.

I have my own views about that version, in that I think it can be improved in several ways, using the same parts. However, it should at least work properly if correctly installed. Its really easy to make an error or two when building a complex wiring scheme. I have never built anything that worked first time!

I'd suggest doing whatever you can to check wire by wire. Also, do a series of tap-tests, as described on the last page of that article, working through each switch combination and finding out what coils are active and which are not.

Also, if you have a multimeter, set it to resistance (20k range), set all knobs to max and measure resistance across a cord plugged into the guitar. If you know roughly what the resistance of one pickup is (say 8k for a full humbucker), you should see about half of that for two HBs in parallel, or one single coil, twice that for two Hbs in series, equal to that for two single coils in series, 1/4 of it for two single coils in parallel. There should be no change if you move the phase switch, and turning tone knobs should have no effect on measured resistance.

If you post some more results, we might be able to help.

Also, just checking, are you using pickups with Seymour Duncan wire colours?

cheers

John

[bmarsella89]

It sounds like the bridge tone is wiring them in series and the neck tone is wiring them out of phase but i cant tell for sure. And when the neck tone is pulled all of the other options work, including the coil spliting. Thats why im so confused. I thought it had to be in the wiring of that knob, but when i switched them the same thing happened so that cant be it. Also yes i am using seymour duncan alnico twos

[wolf]

bmarsella89
If you want to recheck the wiring, I'd like to suggest a website
www.1728.com/guitar9.htm
That is probably the easiest to follow Jimmy Page wiring on the Internet in my humble opinion. (Oh yeah, that's my site.)

What the heck, to make it easier, here's the Jimmy Page wiring diagram based on Seymour Duncan wire colors:

[coli]

Hi Wolf, 
first many thanks for your site, indeed is the clearest Jimmy page wiring I found, therefore I've built the one without dead spot (Seymour Duncan version), but when I push the Neck Tone Switch and my switch is to the NECK I have no sound ...or a low (very low) level...like an almost dead spot. 
I've reviewed all my wiring and all seems ok, I made no mistake neither my lines are touching ... question is, do you have other complaints about this?

thanks!
BR
Carlos 

[JohnH]

Hi coli - welcome to GN2. Wolf is a founder member here but we haven't seen him around for a few months.

Actually, looking at the diagrams, Im also seeing a no sound condition when you pull that neck tone, also the volume wiring is unusual. maybe someone else could look to see if Im right and then we can find you an alternative wiring?

[newey]

If the pickup selector is set to "neck only" and the series/parallel switch is pulled, there is no connection to the jack through the switch and you will have no sound. And, yes, the volume pots seem bass-ackwards

Use the JohnH Jimmy Page diagram and be happy . . .

[JohnH]

This was where I figured out how I reckoned a Jimmy Page LP should work:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3159/jhs-jimmy-page

On there, there's also a link to Borsanova's version, which is a good thread to read.

My design was 12 years ago. I still think its the way that I would build one now. But there's a couple of watchits:

On push pull switches, the best place to ground them is to a tab on tbe top of the switch, rather than the switch body.

The treble-bleed cap//resistors are better with 150k and 1nF instead of 220k//1nF. These are necessary for my design to make series mode work with nice blending.

I laid the controls out in a different way to the classic LP positions. Its fine, but I wouldn't do that now.

Somewhere on my to-do list, is to update the wiring diagram.(though it works ok as-is)

If coli can take a look at the various diagrams, I could do this soon if wanted.

[coli]

Hi John, 
uau ...now I'm a lot more surprised with your post (http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3159/jhs-jimmy-page)  and enthusiastic about it...Wolf diagram seems to work, or at least I think it works ... just the dead spot issue. But seeing this version JHJP wiring diagram - Mk2 active output. ... I will definitely start building it , but the schematic is a bit confusing, can you clarify it? ... I've marked with an arrow the two doubts I found, for now, first the active part I assume that below the copper strips are like that? ...right? , second the wire that arrives from 3 way switch is that last pin from the switch also connected to ground or it was the drawing mistake  ?...meaning the ground is soldered to switch itself and the pin is unconnected?

do you have also a complete schematic for this mk2 draw? 
 



Many thanks!
BR
Carlos

[coli]

meanwhile, with all enthusiasm, I forgot to answer you John ...  thanks for your updates and I think also the ground would be better to solder on top of the switch instead of the pots, even so, because the ones I got from ebay are small. Regarding the design, I would prefer the active version, even because I'm a Les Paul owner that likes Metallica but I already have a Jackson with active EMGs  so now I would prefer a more "les Paul" sound instead, basically it seems to me  I'm aging well   but I'm not sure what would be the best design for me, what do you think ? ...go for the passive with those bleeding resistors and caps ..or the active version would be better or also ok just with more gain !? ...I'm afraid if I go active I will lose some warm tones from passive. 


thanks!
BR

Carlos 

[JohnH]

I have two LP-style guitars, not with this actual wiring but with many of the same tones. The cheaper one (thin body, ceramic pickups) has the active buffer, which gives the cheap pickups some extra sparkle. But my Gibson, with PAF pickups I prefer to be passive. I tested it with the buffer but liked it better without.

The buffer shown doesn't add extra volume, but it allows the guitar to drive long cables, or direct to a mixer, with no tone loss, and also makes sure tone is unaffected by reduced volume, with a little more overall high end clarity. But, I still prefer the passive circuit with good pickups.

The diagrams are right for what they are, including the places you pointed to. That switch lug is grounded anyway via the vol pot. Also, all the pot/switch bodies can be linked by a bare ground wire. This doesn't affect the signal, its just for shielding unless they are grounded another way.

If you have Wolf's circuit going and are happy with it and don't mind the dead spots, maybe you might keep it.

If you change to mine, the main differences will be:
1. In series mode, all the pots are still active and you can use them to set the volume and tone contribution from each pickup. So many more tones to find, on the other hand, more knobs to set if you are looking for a quick change.
2. I drew my diagram with different control positions. If you want to keep with normal positions, then swap the positions of the neck volume with the bridge tone, keeping all connections unchanged. (this is what I intended to revise)
3. I show treble-bleed circuits on the volume pots. You can add these to any guitar if you find a problem with treble loss at lower volume.
4. No dead settings
5. All combinations of two coils are hum-cancelling, so far as is possible with different pickups.
6. When you go to series mode, it doesnt matter where the main toggle is set.

[coli]

Thanks for your reply, John!
I will give better thinking/reading for the passive option with the changes you mentioned, in fact, I already own an active guitar and I just bought a Les Pauls precisely because of the "very clear" sound of the active one, that I'm a bit tired. I have some generic Alnico V humbuckers that seem to be good quality, at least it has a lot of sustain and sounds good. 

The wolf's version seems ok, except the tone range, I used a 22nf capacitors that came with the guitar on his design and I don't see a lot of tone change with it... maybe I should change those values.

Since I have more four pots free I will build your version and test it as well... and set some connectors to avoid too much soldering.
I will post some results when done.

Thanks!