New project... Step right up!

[sydsbluesky]

Okay, this one is gonna be a load of fun... try to bear with me!

One of my best friends, also also a bandmate, is getting married in about a month. This is the guy with the squier reissue telecaster with the best action on earth, but he ALSO has an old ibanez GAX from way back when... he loves this thing for some reason.

It's chipped up a bit, has terribly cheap tuners, the pickups are covered in rust... the list just goes on... BUT the neck is straight and the frets are good.

So I'm thinking that I'm gonna work this thing over and present it to him as a wedding present.

He's gonna be buying a seymour duncan JB and jazz pup from a guy with whom he works... the guy actually paid me to install them on his ESP a while back...

So I'm going to have two vol, two tone, a 3-way and two 4 lead very nice pups to use.

Pups with which I am very familiar, since I've installed about 20 SD pups in the last year (six being mine...same two, actually but three times) and these two models make up about half of that... the rest were mostly '59(love!) and dimebuckers... yes, I % myself out on myspace and facebook as a reasonably qualified tech... But my point being that I sorta know how they're gonna sound in most situations... that comes in to play with the wiring.

I have about 100ish bucks set aside for this project, but I'm willing to inflate that a bit if I have to. Here is a list of what needs to get done:

- Tuning pegs need to be replaced
- the plastic veneer on the headstock needs to be removed/replaced
- I'd like to do a tusq nut or something similar
- fully amazing wiring job... more on that later
- QTB and shielding
- I'd like to fix a rather large ding on the edge. It's a silver finish... I'm open to stripping that off and doing a new finish, but it'll be a first for me.
- strap locks!
- sand down the maple neck... it's gooey
- Elixer mediums... the only string EVER
- I'd like to go active somewhere

Then, obviously, a hugely amazing setup and that sort of thing. Thankfully, the bridge is in very good shape, so it's not going to need replacing... just CLEANING...

For the electronics details I will be making a post in the proper area of the forum, but first thing will be to remove the foul chrome covers from the pickups I'm installing and possibly doing something in black plastic... I need ideas for this one.

My biggest concerns are for the ding in the paint and the nut. These are two things I've never done before, and I'm looking for advice especially on those areas of the build... I'm hoping the nut is an easy drop in, but... last time I tried replacing a nut it was super glued in with about 1/4 gallon of krazy glue and... it was krazy.

He's just expecting me to install the pickups and give it a setup... it's sorta a surprise, and I'm going all out for it, so any nutzoid ideas are welcome!

Thanks for taking the time to read all that, guys... you're helping me do a really cool thing for a really cool guy.

I mean, if you have any ideas for his bachelor party... Na, I think I have that one covered...

Okay, here is the wiring side now that it's up.

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=wiring&thread=4929

[sydsbluesky]

Okay, everything is more or less ready to go except finishing the chip... Any ideas? I really have no idea how I'm gonna go about this! I need help, guys!

[cynical1]

Can you throw out a few more details on the chip...

Location, size, current finish on the guitar...yada...yada...yada...

The age of the instrument and original finish will dictate what you can accomplish and what results you should expect.

HTC1

[sydsbluesky]

The guitar is currently at someone house having the headstock painted or I'd do that picture thing, but I can describe it.

The finish is a glossy metallic silver paint. The chip is just above the jack on the edge of the body, which does not have binding of any kind.

It's not overly large. 1cmx1cm ish? It's on the edge.

[cynical1]

1 cm square is a pretty good size chip. Matching the original color is always tricky, and matching metallics can be especially challenging.

My guess is that this is a relatively recent guitar, so lacquer is not an option.

If it's on the side near the jack then an exact match isn't as critical, as no one will see it...unless they're laying on the ground...

Is the chip down to the wood\sealer, or just the primer?

As a quick thought, BMW sells metallic touchup kits in metallics that has the color and clear coat in the same kit. Looks like this:



It might not be an exact match for the color, but based on location it should work well, and the clear coat included will buff out nicely.

If it's an exotic metal flake metallic then you're in for it.

Once you get a picture up I should be able to give you a little more exact information.

HTC1

[sydsbluesky]

I guess I took a picture of the guitar the other day. Works for me!



That's the color. It even has a picture of the chip. That chip wraps around a bit, too.

So as you can see it's pretty noticeable. I don't feel so compelled as to fully match the color, because I realize that's probably not going to happen, but I would like to at least get rid of that glaring bit of exposed wood.

[cynical1]

Yeah, that's a fun one...not impossible, but time consuming.

I would look for some automotive enamel touch-up paint matching as close to the color as possible. You can use a spray can, a Preval gun or brush it by hand. You'll be sanding between coats, so it's not that big of a deal.

You can test with lacquer if you want for the color coat, but be careful using it as the clearcoat...it might lift the old finish...

You'll want to get the smoothest color coat you can get before you go with the clear, as the clearcoat will bring every flaw glaring right to the surface. Honestly, hand brushing the paint and sanding with a 400 grit sandpaper between coats should give you a pretty good surface to clear over.

Applying the clear follow the same path, as you're going to be sanding between coats as you fill the hole back to level with the existing finish.

This process is extremely easy with lacquer, as lacquer will melt into the previous coats of lacquer, but a bit more time consuming with poly and catalysts.

Basically, what you're going to do is use your color coat to match and your clearcoat to fill. Yes, this takes a lot of coats on a catalyst baked finish. And sanding the harder finishes takes more time as well.

You could use an automotive clearcoat, or a polyurethane. For the area you're going to be repairing either will work, it just comes down to how much you want to spend.

Poly or catalyst or lacquer can all be buffed out to a nice smooth shine. You'll want to give whatever you use about 15-30 days (see mfg directions) for the finish to cure, but once it is you can sand out from 400 gr to 800/1200 gr, then polishing compound and then some swirl remover.

You take your time and don't rush it you should have a smooth durable repair that will blend nicely.

Let me know if this makes sense, or not... I'm trying to do this while I try and bring back a dead Sun box...man, work is such a distraction...

HTC1

[sydsbluesky]

Makes sense, but I have a few questions.

When you say that I'm basically using the color coat to match and then the clear to fill I'm a little confused, because you also said that I want the color coat to be as smooth as possible. I'm unsure how I'm going to get it smooth if it's not up to level with the surrounding area.

And... well, I guess that's it. I shouldn't have to worry about the surrounding areas, because I can just buff them back to the shine even if they get a little fluffed up from the sanding, right? I'm not too worried about what happens as long as I don't cause any damage.

Primum non nocere. Everything else is just extra.

[cynical1]

The color coat will not be used for filling back to the surface of the existing finish. You'll want it sanded flat and smooth, as once the clearcoat goes on it will show all the flaws underneath once you buff it out.

What I do is apply about 3-4 thin layers of color by small brush and sand between coats. Using a small piece of wood keeps you from oversanding.

Once the color coat is sanded smooth then you can start with the clear to build it up to the height of the original finish.

And you're right, once you have it built up it's just a matter of fine sanding and polishing to blend it back in.

It's not a tremendous amount of fun, but once it's done it's done...

HTC1

[sydsbluesky]

Happy 1K, firstly.

But... I guess I'm still not quite clear. Am I supposed to limit the sanding to only inside the chip? Otherwise, I'm not getting how I'm going to get the sandpaper to reach the surface of the color coat while it's below the level of the surrounding paint... I mean, there's probably just something I'm missing because I've never done this.

I like my chips!






P.S - Salsa

[newey]

I've never done this on a guitar, but my first inclination is that you would want to knock down the edge all the way around the chip first, also sanding a bit into the surrounding area, so as to have adhesion for the new paint, and reducing the "cliff" at the edge of the chip. Also sand the inside area of the chip first to get some adhesion.

Auto color-match paint, as Cyn suggested, should do the trick. If that silver is metallic, however, you'll never match it exactly. Shoot for "close enough" as that's as good as you're ever going to get.

Silver is the toughest color to match, and metallics in general are tougher to match than solid colors.

EDIT: And, Yes, Congrats on the 1K mark, Cyn!

[cynical1]

newey is right, matching silver, or most metallics (red ain't no prize either...) is tough.

OK, as far as sanding the color coat... Imagine what a house paint brush does...leaves lines, high spots, swirls...imperfections in general. You want to sand those down so they're as smooth as possible before the clear goes on.

This is even more important when NOT using lacquer. As mentioned before, lacquer will melt the previous coats, where enamels, catalysts and polys don't, So, if it's bad before the clear goes on, then you have essentially encased the flaws in amber for eternity...or until you strip and and repaint it...whichever comes first...

I use a 1/8" square piece of wood, looks a lot like keystock, to do the sanding. Keep your sand paper wet, clean and work slowly. This takes time, so drink the beer afterwards...

As far as the "canyon" goes...this is not something I can put into words as well as I can show you...but since all I have is a keyboard...

I would knock down the edge of the chip, but don't sand too far away from the chip. You can always over cover around the chip and lightly sand away the overage. I use mineral spirits over the effected while doing my final sanding to give me a better idea of what it will look like after the clear goes on. You can see the where you need to sand back to avoid the walkover.

Another trick for filling a chip rapidly is with Crazy glue. This will have an effect on your color beneath, but it's easy to sand and fills quicker then poly.

Am I making more sense?

Happy Trails

Cynical One

PS: And thanks for the nod on the 1K post. I just noticed that...amazing what you can rack up over time...did I say anything good in there?

[sydsbluesky]

Apr 30, 2010 22:09:17 GMT -5 cynical1 said:

PS: And thanks for the nod on the 1K post. I just noticed that...amazing what you can rack up over time...did I say anything good in there?

That hinges on this repair

Starting to make more sense now. So basically I have to be able to get to the color coat, but I also have to keep the affected area as small as possible. It's a compromise between the two, if I'm seeing this right, since there is a good chance I will have to work on the outside of the chip a bit to get everything smoothed up. But that shouldn't matter so much, because that will still be the old color when it gets clear coated.

And thanks SG for the move. I was wondering yesterday how far off into repair it would have to go before it got moved, and this'll make it much easier to find in the future. This is turning into a pretty informative guide on this.

I'm still waiting on the bride to be to get the headstock painted.

I'm going to have to start harassing her for the guitar back. I have a lotta work to do!

[JaegerGuitarFinish]

You have a PM sydsbluesky.

[sydsbluesky]

I sure do.

I'll have my people contact your people. I think we're done, here.

[sydsbluesky1]

Placeholder post to remind me to reclaim and update my thread!

In matters of the guitar finish/repair/strip issue, the issue over which the project was abandoned many years ago, I was unable to fix the damage. I went on to identify beyond even optimistic doubt the body of the guitar to be... basswood... with grain that could teach graphing paper a thing or two about sticking to the straight and narrow. But it ended up not mattering in the least! Unicorns are real!? 

Pictures on the morrow. Gird your loins, for tomorrow we make war.

[sydsbluesky1]

Three high rez photos here, so I'll put them in a spoiler curtain. Pictures of my favorite chair at no additional cost!

SPOILER: Click to show

The body, as is likely pictured in this thread, was glossy silver on basswood. A few days ago I decided to get tribal on it and started with the chemical stripper and torches. About ten rounds of stripper and scraper later, what we have is a very fashionable faux cement/Venetian plaster appearance, which I, frankly, find to be just about the most beautiful guitar I've ever seen.

That's the state of things so far. The electronics are being delivered from Michigan, so ignore all that stuff. That EMG-HZ is out of my first electric guitar, and is complete with the date of manufacture on the back. 2003 is half way to vintage, right?

Speaking of vintage, until my nut arrives from Amazon, my stunt-nut (neck has been without tension for 6 years) is, drum roll, please, a bamboo chop stick my dad lifted after dinner in the Philippines while he was stationed there in the Navy during the final days of Vietnam. I'm sure that at least counts as vintage!

Action is slightly higher than my ESP MH-200 (my Holy Standard) and right about the same as the Gibson LP. Sounds amazing, too... for a hard rock/metal sound... with a nice amp... keeping in mind the chop sticks. Gotta love chop sticks.