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Post by ijustwannastrat on May 18, 2010 20:28:04 GMT -5
Clapton. Not my favorite, but he still has his moments...
Anyways, a possible band is possibly forming, and one of the songs thrown out was "Lay Down Sally." That is a duel guitar song, and we only have me at the moment. So part wise, can anyone thing of something better than this?
D------2----2----2------2------2----2----2-------
A---0------------------0---0------------------------
E---------2----0----2--------2----3----2----------
All eighth notes. It doesn't have the same feel, but it was the best I could come up with.
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Post by lpf3 on May 18, 2010 22:15:09 GMT -5
wanna strat- G----2---2--------------2---2----2---2-----2 D----2-----4---2---4--- 2------5---4---5---2 Barre the D & G strings at the second fret with your index finger & don't move it. Do the work with your ring & pinky fingers. Quote: "and we only have me at the moment. "  That's all ya need.  -lpf3 |
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Post by lpf3 on May 19, 2010 0:47:34 GMT -5
I dunno- maybe I like this one better- It's been so long.........  G----2---2--------------2---0----0---0-----2 D----2-----4---2---4--- 2------5---4---5---2 You choose.   -lpf3 |
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Post by sydsbluesky on May 19, 2010 3:23:21 GMT -5
I need access to my own comp... I'll let you know when I'm not drinking, but I know for sure I've done this with one guitar.
I could have SWORN there were supposed to be open strings in there when I did it... But I could be wrong!
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Post by sydsbluesky on May 19, 2010 3:25:49 GMT -5
Okay, it's one of the two lpf3 posted. That's how I played it for sure...
I didn't do it with a full band, since... well, my mind is open... their minds are closed!!!!!!
BUT, I played it with the second post by lpf3, I do believe.
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Post by sumgai on May 19, 2010 3:30:08 GMT -5
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Post by sydsbluesky on May 19, 2010 3:35:43 GMT -5
That's very similar to what lpf3 posted the second time... only tabbed poorly if you ask me. I actually prefer what lpf3 posted... I dunno. I've only heard the song a few times!
Weeaiill I should add that I slide into my 5th fret on the D to give the G a little more character... I want that moment of dissonance to establish it as a note of its own, instead of.... welll.... boring!
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Post by sydsbluesky on May 19, 2010 3:43:32 GMT -5
Oh, and if you guys have never used GuitarPro... It plays the song in midi, so you can actually LISTEN for bum notes instead of having to learn the riff to see if it's any good. Quite a nice tool to have in the box. Invaluable for proofing a tab of a song involving more than one part at a time... which is most. And yes, I pay for my copy. The torrent version doesn't work with a 64 bit OS EDIT: sorry for the double double post post, but I'm spending most of my energies on playing all these riffs instead of talking about them! PITA, if you ask me. BTW, I'm willing to bet that those two sources that SG posted are either from the same person, or that one was copied from the other. Even note the lower case "i" in both. They are WAY too much alike for anything else to be the case. I would consider that to be ONE citation and not two. I didn't check the credits on them. Right. There are none. Silly me. |
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Post by sumgai on May 19, 2010 4:07:23 GMT -5
sbs, What happens is that one or two guys get up the gumption to actually do the tabbing, and then post it. A whole bunch of "tab search engines" then find it, no matter where it was posted, and then re-post it to their own site(s). Very often, the tab will be slightly re-formatted, but sometimes it's left alone. Usually there is a credit or attribution line, but sometimes the author does indeed 'forget' to add that little detail. I find that about half the time, Chordie has what I want in at least two or three versions, and about the other half of the time, it'll be AZChords that has the goods. But there are others out there that come through for me, even after the Big Boys fall down on the job. My 'real' secret weapon is Google. I let it hunt down whatever I want, then go through the results pretty quickly, chucking out known time-waster sites, then getting down to what I want. Guitar Pro may be neat, but the number of tabs out there that use it can be said to approach Zero with astonishing rapidity. Perhaps it's that cost thing, I dunno.....  If I were gonna spend good coin, I'd get me something that takes a regular ol' mp3 file and breaks it down to MIDI, tablature, and possibly even standard notation. Not cheap, but takes all the guess work out of the job. And mighty quickly at that. $0.02 (cha-ching!)sumgai |
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Post by sydsbluesky on May 19, 2010 4:22:22 GMT -5
sbs, Guitar Pro may be neat, but the number of tabs out there that use it can be said to approach Zero with astonishing rapidity. . . . I'm going to have to throw out there that I feel this to be quite false. All tabs, regardless of source, are usually not going to be 100% correct. GP is just like any other source in this regard, but the fact that it forces rhythm on the author of the tab and can be so easily proofed with the song is astonishingly convenient. And the numbers of available tabs for GP is far from zero... or anything approaching it. EDIT: Forgot to embolden. |
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Post by cynical1 on May 19, 2010 8:42:16 GMT -5
I have noticed that GP tab availability has improved dramatically over the past few years. Finding bass tabs has always been a challenge, and I find that GP tabs are sometimes easier to locate then the old reliable ASCII ones. There's nowhere near a parity yet, but I would recommend jumping on Guitar Pro if you've held off due to lack of tabs. Lay Down Sally GP tab (includes lead, rhythm and solo guitar, bass and drums) HTC1 |
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Post by lpf3 on May 19, 2010 9:53:05 GMT -5
Back in my band days I didn't own a computer, and I didn't like most of the music that was featured in the Guitar magazines- as a result I never got into studying tab much. I used to learn my parts from the recording or jamming with friends. Also, I never placed much importance of playing something note for note; I think after playing any given song in bars & what not night after night that after awhile you put your own stamp on it anyway. Hopefully.
The exception to this IMO are the songs that have such a recognizable hook that you have to play it.... or don't bother playing that song. So, being the sole guitarist trying to perform multitrack songs one would have to pick the recognizable parts & meld them into a single part that conveys that song to everyone listening.
Thankfully, Eric Clapton didn't have a computer either or we may never have had such gems as Layla & Lay Down Sally & so many hundreds of other masterpieces.
Just my 2 cents.......
-lpf3
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Post by ashcatlt on May 19, 2010 10:56:14 GMT -5
A friend of mine had a DVD of a tribute to BB King. BB was there along with Albert, Buddy Guy, Bonnie Raitt, Eric Johnson, I think maybe one or more of the Vaughn brothers. Each of these folks would come on stage one at a time and take a lead. Clapton was there, but they made him play nothing but rhythm all night. Tells me something. Anyway, if you find a program that can take a multi-timbral polyphonic audio file and convert it with any accuracy to MIDI, you let me know. The new Melodyne was supposed to be able to do it, but I haven't gotten the chance to play with it. |
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Post by sydsbluesky on May 20, 2010 16:40:35 GMT -5
lpf3
And thankfully, people like Matthew Bellamy have computers. Otherwise, we may not have such gems as Knights of Cydonia, Unnatural Selection... or, god forbid, anything by Nine Inch Nails.
That's only 1 cent.
But I have another.
Ash
That tells me something, too.
Tells me that Clapton knows the songs better than those guys!
Not a full cent, but I have another.
Strat
You have a hook to play in this song... Make the four-stringer fill in for the backing guitar. This is why I don't like a lot of brit/US rock... The bassists can barely play their guitars. The newer the rock the worse this gets, too.
Listen to Rock from Japan. Yeah, that's called "lead bass." And it's alllll over the place.
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Post by 4real on Aug 2, 2010 2:57:43 GMT -5
I'm not going to offer yet another tab of the rhythm work for lay down sally, i'd probably come up with my own sound alike part and concentrate on the song...or listen to the record, hardly needs "tabbing" really...
But I will give a "plug" for Guitar Pro. It's a fantastic program, but there are things I'm not too keen on. Many tab files are GP3 GP4 GP5 or GP6 and not downwardly compatible making you need to upgrade to read the things. I did buy GP6 recently, only to find it won't work on my old wind up pentium4...I have used GP4 for quite a while.
It's a great intuitive program, it will download and attempt to tab out any midi files which is great...load in elton johns piano part, and try and arrange it into a guitar part for instance, or strip the drums and such down to create instant backing tracks. The new sound engines look really good, but my computer is not powerful enough to run the things.
But, there are other programs like "power Tab" and tabedit and such that are free and do the same basic functions too, just not so 'glitzy' or power hungry, but with the advantage that they are "free"...and they there are a lot of professional grade programs too. Really, it's just a score editing sequencer marketed at guitar players, but professional enough and reasonably priced.
...
But you know, with a song like this, I tend to download the lyrics and maybe the chords and riffs from sites as suggested and just create my own "part" that works. I jam with a bass player, generally a drum machine drum pattern and usually ahve to sing as well. He's got a thing for motown and such and plays james jamerson stuff like "what's going on" sight reading from accurate transcriptions. I have to come up with a part that incorporates not only the guitar part but the essence of all those parts to make a viable whole and sing it as well, usually with no rehearsal as such...or at least 'try'...
I constantly point out that the motown hit machine had the 'oreo' three guitar section as well as keys and horns and such as well and none of them had to sing the darn things as well!
Still, it is amazing the kinds of guitar parts you can make up in such a situation that cover most of the essence of the things, a challenge but not one that would be met by attempting to 'tab' out things or worrying unduly about how clapton played it.
I wouldn't mind a bit of 'support' in the same way from the bass, but that's not the way it works in that situation...sometimes, but generally not as he takes his stuff from transcriptions and the original songs. It would be cool if he would play stuff in the keys that suit my voice or not all the horn friendly "flat" keys as well, but that's rarely a goer either!
But, it's amazing the things you can come up with on a single guitar if forced to that your average punter is going to enjoy as much or more and fits the bill and the song.
BTW, I bought GP6 in the hope of tabbing things out more. At the moment I am working on fingerpicking arrangements and while I can "write" things that I know should work, it would be good to "hear" them and tinker with things before having to physically learn to play the things...and to share them as well.
I've shared these kinds of ASCII tabs quite a bit and with much time, but I see that on a lot of forums this is not even enough for someone who really wants to learn something to have a go. The normal reply is, well looks nice, but do you have a midi format, a recording or more and more these days...a youtube video of me playing the thing on film!!! Well...for various reasons that's not going to happen anytime soon if ever. But it's weird how things have changed from the old play to vinyl record till the grooves wore out...which is how I learned to play clapton stuff of this kind of era.
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Post by 4real on Aug 2, 2010 3:05:27 GMT -5
There's a program that will do this from mp3's?
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Post by sumgai on Aug 2, 2010 3:59:25 GMT -5
I used to read the trade rags, they were full of ads that promised this kind of thing. Never tried them though, thought that prices just south of One Large was pretty steep for a backwater bar player like me. Sorry if I scared anyone, but that's my memory. The name G-Vox sticks in my mind for some reason here..... Hell's Bells, I've had Band-In-A-Box for two years now, and I still can't make it do anything I can live with. Whatever happened to software that just does what you need, and not what someone else thinks you want?  Lekst mich am arsch!sumgai |
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Post by ashcatlt on Aug 2, 2010 17:28:44 GMT -5
There has always been a big problem with this kind of automated transcription of polyphonic - and especially polytimbral - sources. It's fairly easy to sort out a monophonic signal. Extract the fundamental, measure it's frequency, done. But when you've got two or more notes at the same time, it gets tough, and if you have to figure out first which notes belong to which instrument, and then sort out multiple notes per instrument... Human brains do it more quickly and better than any computer ever has. celemony just recently released a version of their Melodyne software which is supposed to do this. I haven't had the opportunity to try it. sg - what are you trying to get out of Band-In-A-Box? Have you tried Jammer? |
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Post by sumgai on Aug 2, 2010 20:47:02 GMT -5
ash, I've got one question, either for you or for the Jammer folks - does it do surf? And I don't mean, can I program it in 30 hours or less and get something that resembles a modicum of surf, I mean does it do surf right out of the box? If not, then I'll haveta sky up...... Too often I've seen, or even spent money on, programs that think the piano is the only instrument in the world, or else all "backing track" writers want to accompany a vocalist. I don't fall into either category, sorry to say. BIAB has over 1800!! rhythm patterns, at least the version I have came with that many. But more than 25% of those are for jazz or swing, another bunch are for classical, and the remaining are best described as "folk", even the ones labeled as rock, country, blues, etc. Worthless.  Sigh. sumgai |
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Post by ozboomer on Aug 4, 2010 4:27:40 GMT -5
... does it do surf? And I don't mean, can I program it in 30 hours or less and get something that resembles a modicum of surf, I mean does it do surf right out of the box? Ha. I've been asking that question for years now... with no suitable answer, partly because software writers don't know what "surf" is (heck, I've had a hard enough time getting surf enthusiasts to tell me what it is - the answer is generally "go and listen to these 1st wave bands" - so how in da heck is a software company going to work it out!?).. Well, I'm much the same... but I'll be the first to admit I come from a keyboard background... so I don't really have too much trouble with some of the ways they arrange their tracks (voicings and so on)... but... ...and is why I've never lashed-out on BIAB. I spent too many years hacking about with keyboards (organs) that included some sort of drum box, that I got pretty disenchanted with some of those things... ...and although I haven't done anything with it recently (10+ years), I did find some interesting things with some of the specialist MIDI collections, back in the day. I bought a "MIDI Cube" collection sometime last century ...and there were some interesting rhythms in there that I'd used... and these days, I think you can get the equivalent in audio files of some sort... but my poor lil' dinkey PC can't cope with too much audio, so I can't use those versions... but I don't know that I'd want to -- hive off the sound generation to some hardware/firmware (wavetables etc) and let MIDI data stream eternal at 32k, I say... wellllll, sometimes, anyway...  I'll crawl back under my rock now... John |
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Post by 4real on Aug 4, 2010 22:59:12 GMT -5
I had an old version of BIAB years ago. It isn't designed to be everything for all people or even that much of a "composition" tool, and is biased towards the creators and programmers taste of course. It works by selecting from a bunch of pre-programmed patterns and no, no surf...however... It would allow you to create your own "styles" so that it could do it...possibly not to your longer term liking even then You'd have to put in rhythms and fills much like a drum machine from which it will select from, along with accompinament styles (appeggiated chords, etc) and bass lines and such. It really is kind of a drum machine which can also play notes and randomly select fills and variations according to sections...and can only sound as good as the equipment to create the sounds (soundcards) and can never really replicate things like a strummed guitar and stuff. So...it "could do surf" but then surf comes in many flavours...create a "style" for a song like 'pipeline' and all your stuff will come out sounding like pipeline with different chords...is this really what you'd want? ... The other way to go is to perhaps use a normal sequencer type program, even Guitar pro will do this kind of thing. It will upload midi files and allow editing and even allow you to input from a graphical fretboard...but so too can other programs, some free, like powertab too I guess. Probably the more "productive' way then is to upload midi files that others have created and cut and paste or edit midi tracks to your liking from already created ones in the styles of song you choose. So...here are some midi sites... www.evans-electric.com/beachboys.htmlok...beachboys...I know... www.hamienet.com/midi5754_Pipeline.htmlpipeline, ventures version home.online.no/~gunnar-a/eng8.htmshadows site, dozens of arrangements including things like apache and walk don't run...plus all guitar instro tracks .... So, save the midis, upload into a sequencer, edit out the cheezy stuff and the main melody and perhaps the rhythm guitar... record basic tracks into audacity or recording program of choice (some include midi capability like sonar) and record your rhythm guitar tracks perhaps ... You are not going to find a literal "band in a box" that can do what you want although potentially, with time and effort, you could create your own range of surf styles to add to BIAB to do what it does but in the style of your choosing. The "next level" is to work with wav files and cut and paste those from sample libraries. There is at least one drummer that I have heard of that specializes in "surf styles" saving rolls and patterns and such in individual audio files four you to mix and match with. ... I don't think that you are ever going to get polyphonic mp3 to tab or midi or anything like it. Neither is there likely to be a "market" for surf karaoke when there is already a fair bit out there in the midi world. And there is nothing that isn't going to take a learning curve, equipment and time to learn, much it kind of removed from 'playing the guitar'...that's why i rarely do much in that plus my old computer struggles enough! But you know, most surf stuff isn't that hard to tap into a drum machine or set up a basic beat to play to. My BR-600 little 8track record has the potential to load in midi drum tracks or tap into its realistic sounding drum sounds, or sample my own kits in there for it to play potentially. It has fairly good bass simulators to, so you could use your guitar to record bass, and even acoustic simulators useful for rhythm tracks. But you know, with a combination of programs, some of them "free" and a bit of work you could kind of make a virtual surf BIAB or even with BIAB but if planning to write surf stuff, perhaps you need a real band of like minded people or create your own virtual band. Unfortunately with "midi" the keyboard, which is just a simple set of midi switches, is going to remain king. I've seen some guys program midi with midi guitars, including drums, but the thing that makes such things successful is understanding the music and the role and kinds of patterns each instrument plays. So, without having to learn the "technique" inevitably someone who understands "surf drums" and the "surf sound" you are after is going to have to program it, and usually that means you! |
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rockledge
Rookie Solder Flinger
Posts: 13
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Post by rockledge on Mar 28, 2013 1:28:03 GMT -5
G 2 2 2 2 2 0-0-0-0
D 2--4--2--4--2--4>5-4-4-4
A 0 0 0 0 0
guitar 2
D 2--4--2--4--2--2-2-2-
A 0 0 0 0 0
E 0-2-3-4
At one time I had it worked out so I could do both of these guitar parts at once.
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That's all ya need. 
Lekst mich am arsch!
