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Post by sumgai on Jul 6, 2010 15:06:15 GMT -5
It's that time of year again boys and girls! (Well, except for our two Johns, Mr. Sooty and of course, gumbo....) That's right, it's time to hit the waves, and even better, it's time to crank up to the max that thing we affectionately call Leo's Timeless Gift To Guitarists! (You know I'm talking about the Fender Reverb Unit. ) My first thought here is that we attempt to pull off what happened in this thread over here, but themed for something that would have gotten air-play in So-Cal, circa 1963 or thereaboots. Any takers? Let's get a round of contributors first, then we'll work out the details. Don't wanna get mired down in those, before we even have enough players on board. sumgai (I never owned a surf board, but I played one on TV!)
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 6, 2010 17:05:39 GMT -5
Well, I've never surfed...never even saw the Pacific Ocean...and was a bit too young to get in on the whole Beach music thing...but I'm game. I can do some drums if Ash is tied up, and can attempt some bass if you can give me some examples on both counts. Maybe this will entice the hesitant to participate... Happy Trials Cynical One
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Post by newey on Jul 6, 2010 22:48:45 GMT -5
I just know that's not a typo . . . What the hey, I'm in, for whatever I may be able to contribute. I love instro surf music, I just don't play it very well. After all, I could hardly refuse after my Avatar got photoshopped like that. Why is it that, in any pictures, the babe is never standing next to me, but off in the distance somewheres?
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Post by newey on Jul 6, 2010 23:07:57 GMT -5
Of course, I'm geographically challenged on this as well. As everyone knows, "There's No Surf In Cleveland" . . .
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 6, 2010 23:26:23 GMT -5
...well, you got me there...man, you are good with the fine print... You're looking at the glass half empty...she surfing towards you... Happy TrailsCynical One
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Post by sumgai on Jul 7, 2010 1:58:01 GMT -5
Why is it that, in any pictures, the babe is never standing next to me, but off in the distance somewheres? Easy..... look at your guitar - you've got only one pickup. Babes equate that with, you know....... ......... And I suspected this might happen, so I ain't too upset, but I'm now gonna set the record straight. The following rules are cast not just in stone, but in granite, so get 'em right: 1) Beach music is vocals; 2) Surf music is instrumentals; 3) With only one exception, never shall the twain meet. 3a) The single exception to #3 is Surfer Joe (by The Surfaris), the only vocal ever accepted into the Surf Music Pantheon. HTH sumgai
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Post by newey on Jul 7, 2010 5:52:51 GMT -5
I knew that, I specified "instro-surf". I just couldn't resist posting the Euclid Beach Boys, featuring local legend Eric Carmen. David Sanborn on sax on that track, too.
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 7, 2010 7:20:08 GMT -5
So, is it safe to say we're in the Dick Dale, The Chantays, The Ventures, Link Wray and The Surfaris territory?
Not to profess my ignorance here, but is it the same Bob Welch in The Chantays that wound up in the Dead?
OK, I set up a Dick Dale channel in Pandora and am doing the best quick study I can. I'm starting to feel like I'm in a Quentin Tarantino soundtrack...
I notice Dale seems to play in some unique minor scales. They sound almost Arabic...then they sound like Gypsy scales at times. I probably should know all this stuff, but the Beach Boys just chased this Chicago boy away from anything "surf" related at a young age.
Just to make sure I've got this right, we're looking at something along these lines:
1.) Instrumental 2.) 3:00 minutes or less 3.) The snare appears to rest on 1 and 3, then double on 2 and single on 4 on the quicker stuff. 4.) BPM appear to range from 130 to 180
One question, I notice some of the more recent surf bands add elements of Latin percussion. Is this acceptable here, or are we going for a more traditional approach? OK, two questions...not having studied this too much, what type of progressions are allowable...or is it more modal?
Sorry for all the questions, but this is a genre I have about zero familiarity with...but then, the bass parts seem to be dead simple...almost like they handed the bass to the worse guitar player in the band...
Happy Trails
Cynical One
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Post by sumgai on Jul 7, 2010 13:20:49 GMT -5
newey, Yeah, but you weren't the one I was talkin' to..... And actually, if you wanna hear sax as it was played, i.e. properly, in both the early days and latter days of Surf music, Jim Pash is your man. Or was, he passed away a few years ago... still a performing Surfari, right to the end. ~!~!~!~!~ cynical1, So, is it safe to say we're in the Dick Dale, The Chantays, The Ventures, Link Wray and The Surfaris territory? I felt this was a good starting point, yeah. It's at least familiar to most players, if not downright inculcated, like with me. ;D However, the Ventures would argue that they are not a surf band. Indeed, back in the 60's, they put out only one album that was surf-themed. In the last 15 years or so, they've done, and re-done, some surf stuff again, thanks in part to your good buddy, Q.T. So for me the idea is to warm up, loosen up a little, put a toe in the water, that sort of thing. We can get fancy and stretch out later, if we all feel like doing a sequel. No, don't think so. Unless he somehow changed from drums to guitar.... (wouldn't be the first time). But The Chantay's are still kickin' it (they never really stopped), and he's still the drummer therein. However, my best research efforts say that the Dead's Welch was at one time in Fleetwood Mac. So you're discovering the real reason that Q.T. is a household name, eh? ;D Yer startin' to get the hang of it. But don't forget the Spanish influence.... Make no mistake, the B.B. are good - real good.... at what they do. They've covered many of the popular surf instrumentals of the day, and even come up with a few on their own. But their forte is vocals, and few can touch them in that category. Still and all, I can't sing, so I don't go there. Pretty much it. My "air play" tag validates your 3:00 minutes, but it could stretch to one more stanza, should enough contributions come in. But yes, for a first effort, your list looks right (to me). I chose to say traditional. In such confines, I'd have to say yes, elements of Latin percussion pretty much didn't exist back then. However, I'm not the chief cook and bottle washer, I'm just wongai. If the crowd decides to depart from the traditional sound of surf instrumentals in some way(s), then I'll go with the flow. You'd be surprised at the number of players who don't know that whenever they pickup their guitars, they're playing both scalar and modal at the same time, every time. It's all in how the player approaches the notes to be played, but a good ear can analyze a performance in either manner - scalar or modal. For the most part, I'd say that a progression that breaks away from 1-4-5 would be quite acceptable. Well, that's easily explained - there weren't no reverb on the bass.... and everyone knows that if you ain't got the reverb, you ain't the star! But in fact I play bass, probably more than guitar these days. I know that a bad bass player can break a good band faster than a drunken groupie fighting with the bouncer. So let's "spice it up" a little, I'm all for that. For the duration, you might wanna consider making that "Happy Waves"..... HTH sumgai Wait... not done yet.... It occurs to me - where's ozzy? John, you in for this, now that you've talked me into starting it! Now I'm done. s.
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Post by newey on Jul 7, 2010 14:54:36 GMT -5
If I remember rightly, "Miserlou" was from a traditional Turkish folk song. There's a lot of different influences in Surf. Movie themes from Sergio Leone's "Spaghetti Westerns" seem to be popular fodder, as well as cheesy spy movie themes. Throw heaps of reverb into the mix and it's all surf gold . . .
From a guitarist's perspective, surf is tough because there's no fudging a missed note, there's no distortion to hide behind, it's all precision riffs that, even when not blindingly fast, still have to be exactly right to sound good.
And, as SG noted, Bob Welch was in the Mac, and later in the band Paris. Bob Weir was/is in the Dead, who started out as a jug band, which is about as far from surf as it gets.
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Post by ashcatlt on Jul 8, 2010 0:26:22 GMT -5
I kind of missed the wave by a couple of years. There are a number of folks who I could name as influences who were in turn influenced by surf music. My stepdad had a bunch of Ventures vinyl that I used to play on rare occasions.
Worse yet, I don't have any spring reverb. Got a couple of digital algorithms which sound okay when mixed in very subtle-like. When cranked up into surf territory, though, they are pretty obviously artificial.
So, I don't think I'll be playing on this one. I'm happy to mix, but then we all know how that turns out...
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Post by sumgai on Jul 8, 2010 11:11:44 GMT -5
In additional "research" (time on the 'puter while chowing down, before I start my daily grind....), I find no mention of anybody named Welch associated with the Dead. Perhaps this was a photographer, or the leader of a fan club, or......
That same research revealed some interesting info about Bob Welch the guitar player who "saved Fleetwood Mac" (Mick Fleetwood's own words) when Spencer suddenly quit FM during a USA tour. But all I find for him are various solo excursions since his days with FM - no mention of joining other existing groups, let alone the Dead.
Hmmmmm, must be a glitch somewhere in the system........
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Post by D2o on Jul 8, 2010 11:43:38 GMT -5
Maybe it was Bob Weir? EDIT: Looking back, newey already mentioned this ... "And, as SG noted, Bob Welch was in the Mac, and later in the band Paris. Bob Weir was/is in the Dead, who started out as a jug band, which is about as far from surf as it gets."
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Post by sumgai on Jul 8, 2010 11:52:21 GMT -5
That would satisfy the condition I laid out, about there being a possible glitch in the system......
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Post by KIIMH on Jul 8, 2010 11:58:45 GMT -5
That would satisfy the condition I laid out, about there being a possible glitch in the system...... im still thnking up a smart resposne for that ... may take a wile
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Post by D2o on Jul 8, 2010 12:31:12 GMT -5
Sorry to be a paddlepuss, but the idea of me trying to play surf music makes me a little clucked … Where and when I grew up, the surf board never really came to the dock. There was lots of surf … but it wasn’t music. I’ll watch and listen with interest. Maybe I can jump in at some point if I feel some unexpected inspiration? D2o
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 8, 2010 14:53:39 GMT -5
In my quest to understand all this surf music stuff I tripped up on a forum at surfguitar101.com which makes many things clear. I must admit, I do find myself getting into some of this music. I wish I had better speakers to pickup on the bass parts... I did find some Guitar Pro tabs on some of the more famous surf tunes, so that should help. I'll start dinking around with the drum program this weekend. Note to SG: As you are the resident source of all things surf, you may get a few PM's to reference the progress of said drums and bass prior to release to the general unsuspecting public. Well, back to work...or the appearance of same... HTC1
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Post by sumgai on Jul 8, 2010 22:10:00 GMT -5
c1,
Just be aware that surfguitar101 does not speak equine....... you may have to moderate your approach......
sumgai
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 9, 2010 12:50:13 GMT -5
True. But I won't let it stifle me, or distract me from my mane focus... And I don't need to go into hock or get saddled into something I don't want, or be left at the gait in order to use the forum...
Guess I better hoof it out of here with the horse puns...
Happy Trails...sorry...should have reined myself in on that one...
Cowabunga Pard'
Cynical One
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Post by D2o on Jul 9, 2010 13:15:05 GMT -5
While surf music may have caused slightly bridled enthusiasm, you have yet to bale on it either – so that’s fair … more than fair. It’s farrier.
Unbridled enthusiasm may be unwarranted, though - as COWABUNGA is already an attractive idea. No need to be gelding the lily.
You weren’t being a flake, your horse talk was all above the bit.
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 9, 2010 13:44:19 GMT -5
...as long as I didn't go too far pastern the limit...
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Post by D2o on Jul 9, 2010 13:52:09 GMT -5
I would describe it as the perfect degree of pasture.
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 14, 2010 9:38:59 GMT -5
All equine humor aside...I hear the distant stampede of a song here...
We need all interested parties who want a hand in constructing this song to chime in on this one BEFORE it gets some steam behind it.
Any takers?
HTC1
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jul 14, 2010 12:20:45 GMT -5
I'm not one to lick a gift horse in the mouth, i wanna play!
guitar or bass, and i have drums, and could prolly pull it off if we dont have a real drummer. I have Sonar and all the infrastructure to record with.
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Post by sumgai on Jul 14, 2010 13:12:07 GMT -5
I'm not one to lick a gift horse in the mouth, i wanna play!
guitar or bass, and i have drums, and could prolly pull it off if we dont have a real drummer. I have Sonar and all the infrastructure to record with. Yeah, but your time/scope/focus is about to be limited for the next few weeks! If'n you don't mind, we'll just do some warm-up laps, and you can catch up to us when you settle back down to Real Life. But we'll likely take you up on your offer, so thanks! sumgai
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Post by lpf3 on Jul 14, 2010 18:45:29 GMT -5
I'll play. -lpf3
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jul 14, 2010 19:06:23 GMT -5
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Post by cynical1 on Jul 15, 2010 9:02:13 GMT -5
Truer words were never spoken... HTC1
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jul 15, 2010 9:26:36 GMT -5
lol, you can send your condolences on sunday
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Post by sumgai on Jul 15, 2010 20:59:54 GMT -5
Truer words were never spoken...
HTC1 Sorry, man, but I have to second that one. The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. Start with this testimonial, at about 48 seconds in, and running for nigh onto three minutes: Otherwise, congrats! sumgai
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