SSS Strat - 8+ tones with no extra switches

[JohnH]

Here’s another sketch design on my current theme of getting a wider range of sounds, but without extra switches. This one is for a Strat guitar with three single coils:



The controls are based on one super-switch and three standard pots – no push-pulls or toggles.
The pots are master volume, master tone, and middle volume, which puts the middle pup in series with the other combos. Sound settings are as follows:

With middle volume down at minimum, we have five standard Strat sounds, with the popular variation that M only is replaced by N+B

1. N
2. N+M
3. N+B
4. B+M
5. B

With M volume rolled up, positions 1, 3 and 5 get middle added in series, with 2 and 4 unchanged

1. N x M
2. N+M
3. (N+B) x M
4. B+M
5. B x M

All those three series settings are nominally humcancelling, including position 3.

I have the tone control, acting to bypass M with a cap when at full tone in series mode. Based on previous designs, this makes some interesting bright but powerful sounds, but is an optional feature. Disconnecting the tone pot where marked ‘X’ reverts to a normal tone control.

Dang! another design i want to try, but with no spare guitar to put it into!

Cheers
John

[JFrankParnell]

that's freakin awesome! This is untried? What happens with the MidVol at < 10? Just "less"?

[chuck]

sounds very interesting

[JohnH]

thanks for the comments

Jul 9, 2010 20:03:05 GMT -5 JFrankParnell said:

that's freakin awesome! This is untried? What happens with the MidVol at < 10? Just "less"?

Yes, the circuit is new and not tested, but all of he parts of it have been tried on other designs, such as the way the series settings are controlled by the M volume pot, and also the special action of the tone control.

With that, with series mode and tone on 10, the sound is a bit brighter than at 9, and is basically the clear treble of a single coil with the bass of a humbucker, and an interesting mid notch thrown in. By the time the tone is reduced to 9, it audibly reverts to a standard deep series sound, which then treble-reduces as you turn down further. I have found this to be a really useful way of controlling tone, beacuse it is seemless. As you turn up tone, it gets brighter through the whole range of turn. In parallel mode, (ie, in this case, with M volume at 0)it acts as a normal tone pot

John

[mistabusta]

First post on the board. I have been searching the web for weeks looking for a way to get N&M in series as well as B&M in series without using switches. I would rather not lose the middle pickup by itself but I could live with that to get these other combos. One problem.....I need a wiring diagram

Can anyone help? Thanks!

[JohnH]

Hi mb, welcome to GN2. Id be happy to draw up the wiring, since I'm keen to get this design evaluated and don't have a spare ax myself.

But before doing that, have you considered getting those tones using a push/pull pot? Ie, although you are adding a switch, it is on one of the current knobs so no drilling nor change in appearance. IMO, the cleverest, simplest version of this idea was by the late ChrisK. See this thread, particularly the last diagram on the first post:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=schem&action=display&thread=3153

In that, he used the standard Strat lever switch, whearas with my design, you need to replace it with a Superswitch. He also keeps the standard M setting at position 3.

cheers

John

[mistabusta]

Thanks John! I do have a few questions about the design that you linked from Chris:

1. What is the string ground? I am only aware of ground from pots to jack and cavity.

2. With DPDT switch up, what is the difference between positions 5 & 4? Does position five give you one shared tone control and position 4 two independent tone controls?

Sorry for the noob questions and thanks again for your help.

[D2o]

Hi Mista, and welcome.

The string ground is the wire that runs from the bridge, or, more likely, from some piece of metal in the tremolo / whammy cavity, to the case of the volume pot - it helps to reduce hum.

The difference between positions 4 & 5 is the “direct” introduction of a capacitor in position 4 - kind of hardwired, full-on, into the circuit - rather than through the tone pot … so the tone (i.e. sound) is different in each position, regardless of what is done* with the actual tone pot. [*EDIT: John's subsequent and better explanation reminds me that I should specify that I am referring to rotation of the post on the tone pot, not pushing / pulling of the post on the tone pot]

Not quite two independent tone controls, in the sense that you have no “control” of the one in position 4 … it’s more like 4 & 5 is the on & off switch for the hardwired cap, as opposed to tone “control” (i.e. variable tone via the pot).

Does that makes sense?

Cheers,
D2o

[JohnH]

The way I read it, he had it wired with a bridge/middle tone pot, and a neck tone pot. There's a few other options related to that, including the usual neck and mddle tone, and no bridge tone. These all affect the sound after the switching, and are depnedent only on the 5-way, not the in/out of the push/pull knob.

But the main thing about positions 2 and 4, when in knob-pulled series mode, is the second cap, which is wired just across one of the pickups. This actually allows the high frequencies for the other (M) coil to come through more clearly, to be added to the bass of the B or N coil (the one bypassed by the cap).

A bit of a mouthful, but the result is the clear highs of a single coil, but with added bass weight more like a humbucker, with some variations to the overall voice in between. The only question is what value that second cap should be - experimentation is needed but I favour a value of 22nF or 47nF.

I can get these settings on one of my guitars (different wiring), and use them frequently.

So the reason that I think this scheme is so clever is that you get those two extra sounds as a bonus, plus the basic NxM and BxM that you wanted, plus the basic 5 Strat sounds, without much expense or complex wiring.

John

[4real]

Looks like a great scheme...

I did a middle pickup volume control on my sustainer strat test guitar thing at one stage...



But, it wasn't in series. Each pickup had it's own phase switch and the 5 way selector replaced with a gibson style 3 way. The middle pickup could be blended in with one of the tone controls.

A fantastic scheme, the phase switch reversed the usual strat quack effect when wired out of phase to make a nice warm sound that I didn't expect.

It worked like a tone control adding quack to any pickup selection and the only selection not really available was the middle pickup alone. None were in series as is available with this scheme.

Anyway, similar idea, the neck and bridge selections can be really great and this looks like a great scheme, not sure that I have a guitar that I can try it on, although I was thinking only the other night of trying to add a middle pickup into my tele and using the tone control to blend it in...

Unfortunately, for reasons I can't remember, the middle blend thing was disabled because of the complex sustainer switching, and I really missed it...rats.

Anyway, looks like a great idea!

[newey]

MB-

Let me add my "Hello and Welcome!", even if belatedly.

JohnH said:

I favour a value of 22nF or 47nF.

which are .022µf and .047µf, respectively. You'll usually find these quoted in microfarads (µf), only occasionally in nanofarads (nf), which are 1 X 10³ smaller in capacitance.

JohnH is from Australia, where they tend to use the nano thing more.

Not trying to insult your intelligence if you knew this already, just trying to ensure you get the right values. I certainly didn't know any of this stuff when I first posted here, so I thought a conversion might be helpful.

[mistabusta]

D2o, that makes perfect sense. Thank you all very much for answering my questions!

John, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. This diagram is perfect for what I wanted and it doesn't look very intimidating. I wish the push-pull was on the volume, but I think I can manage

[JohnH]

mistab - you can move the push/pull switch to whatever pot you like. The switch and the pot are electricaly independent. So you can redraw it on the vol pot if you wish, just keep the wire connections to the switch to the same places.

cheers

john

[D2o]

Geez, John - I read mb's post and didn't even pick up on that ... I just dismissed it as a "wish".

Now you've gone and solved another problem that I didn't even know existed!

"This" specific issue seems like a small thing, but it does remind how lucky we are to have you here.

... I hope it's okay that I am saying this without being assisted by a puddle of beer on the floor.

Best regards,
D2o

[Raz59]

Ok, let's see if I understand this correctly:

M's volume control adds M in series to positions 1/3/5, but M is still connected in parallel to the other pups in positions 2/4, right?

And that "M capacitor bypass" only happens positions 1/3/5, right? So in these 3 positions, if I have the master volume at 0 and M volume/treble knob at 10, I will only hear M's high frequencies, right?

Just when I thought that my strat was good...looks like I'll have to buy a superswitch. And I plan on adding a push/pull to reverse the neck pup's phase. Nothing wrong about doing that, I hope?

[sumgai]

Aug 7, 2010 15:12:43 GMT -5 Raz59 said:

M's volume control adds M in series to positions 1/3/5, but M is still connected in parallel to the other pups in positions 2/4, right?

That's correct.

And that "M capacitor bypass" only happens positions 1/3/5, right?

Yes.

So in these 3 positions, if I have the master volume at 0 and M volume/treble knob at 10, I will only hear M's high frequencies, right?

Ooops, error. The Master Vol control is truly a master, it controls everything. The Middle pup vol control feeds into the Master, not around it.

And I plan on adding a push/pull to reverse the neck pup's phase. Nothing wrong about doing that, I hope?

Nothing wrong with that idea, should work (and sound) fine.

HTH




sumgai

[JohnH]

Hi Raz - OK, back on the design at the top of the thread:

We have a middle volume and a master volume and a master tone. Master vol acts as a normal master volume, no tricks. With middle vol at 0, the tone control is also as standard, cutting treble.

With middle volume up, when the master tone is at 10, the highs from B and N are enhanced by getting a direct route past the M pup through the tone cap. M is bypassed for high frequencies, but adds bass weight.

Lets say you are in position 5 with M volume at max, and turn the tone knob up from 0 to 10, as follows. It sounds like this:

0 BxM with treble all cut
1-9 BxM treble increasing, developing a 'humbucker' tone
10 Highs like a Bridge single coil, with added bass from the M pup

And yes, theres no problem adding a neck phase switch. It makes these tonal changes with the knobs very powerful because you can tweak the phase cancellation.

BTW as a noted before - this dsign is not yet built, but my observations on tone come from other guitars which have similar combinations.

John

[mistabusta]

John,

Finally got around to wiring the diagram you linked from Chris except I moved the switch to volume. I love it. To me, when switch is pulled in position 5, it sounds like a hot position 4. When the switch is pulled in position 4, it sounds like a humbucker. Same thing on the bridge. Pulled in position 1, it sounds like a hot position 2. Pulled in position 2, it sounds like a humbucker. I now have a lot of sounds in this strat and really enjoyed doing this (first complete re-wire). I would like to try yours as well but I need another strat now

Thanks again for your help!

[ozboomer]

Aug 13, 2010 7:57:20 GMT -5 mistabusta said:

I would like to try yours as well but I need another strat now

Don't let that stop you; just work your way 'round to getting another pickguard with some pickups and the electronics and rig-up the other circuit on it. This way, you can have many "drop-in" personalities for a given guitar.

Heck, I'm up to my 4th complete rig... and have just ordered a (cheapo) loaded pickguard and some more electronics and will be working on Nos. 5 & 6 over the upcoming weeks (and months)... 'tis always more to try out... and to learn...

GuitarNutz: where your obsession for mods is fuelled...

[JFrankParnell]

...of course, if you do a split pickgaurd, you only need one axe and you can have your 'drop in' personalities even easier: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=wiring&thread=5005&page=2#45486

[D2o]

'drop in' personalities

Well said, repoman

[JFrankParnell]

Hey, it was *MY* car!!!