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Post by asmith on Sept 20, 2012 18:43:18 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Sept 20, 2012 18:47:41 GMT -5
. . .and has stayed married to a drummer for 30+ years!
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Post by JFrankParnell on Sept 20, 2012 23:37:26 GMT -5
If you havent heard Me First and the Gimme Gimmes many covers of 70s am radio songs, well, here's good intro.
Speaking of intros, wouldnt you know it, he just happens to be quoting from Repo Man at the beginning ;D
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Post by JFrankParnell on Sept 20, 2012 23:42:47 GMT -5
And check this out, my friend Nathan just posted this on facebook tonight. Got the Maj Min at the turn arounds.
I Plug it in, I turn it on, it works (The Electric Lawn Mower Song)
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Oct 11, 2012 13:39:44 GMT -5
Anybody love the Beatles? I was messing around with alternative ways to play "Blackbird," and I noticed how absolutely messed up this chord progression is. G- Am - G - G C- A7 - D - B7 -Em Eb - D - A7 - C - Cm - ?? The highlighted part is where I got to before I thought of this thread. The entire song has me for a loop, though. During the "take your broken wings and learn to fly" line, the bass is playing a chromatic C, C#, D, D#, E. I've come to the conclusion long ago that any time the Beatles have a catchy melody or a chromatic line, to just set down the instrument and walk away, but this is driving me nuts. Since you guys actually know this stuff, care to explain?
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Post by asmith on Oct 11, 2012 15:25:13 GMT -5
Anybody love the Beatles? Present and correct. The actual notes and chords played in your last line are as follows: Top Note | G | G | F# | G | E | Eb | D | C# | C | B | Middle Note | G | G | G | G | G | G | G | G | G | G | Bottom Note | E | Eb | D | C# | C | C | B | A | D | G | ------------------------ | ---------- | ---------- | ---------- | ---------- | ---------- | ---------- | ---------- | ---------- | ---------- | ---------- | (Implied) Chord | Em | Eb* | Dadd4 | A7/C# | C | Cm | G/B | A7 | D7sus4 | G |
* or Cm/Eb, or G+, or B7+Classic voice-leading: - Em is in the G Major scale, the "relative minor."
- The Eb and two Gs are out of the G Major scale and itching to resolve to a chord that's more in line with it. The bass-line has stepped from E to Eb and so it feels perfectly natural to descend to a D.
- Dadd4 is in the G Major scale. However, the added fourth note of the chord, the G, adds some harmonic tension. It sounds alright, but like it doesn't really want to be there. This suggests to the ear that the progression isn't "complete" just yet.
- A7 is a secondary dominant -- it's the dominant of D. Normally, A7 wants to resolve to D, and you can hear this in the earlier passage of the song when Paul plays the implied chords C -> A7/C# -> D. This time he's just doing it backwards. Following the principles of the implied Eb as before, the A7 has notes that aren't in the scale of G major and the brain wants the music to "resolve" somewhere more natural. The chromatic descend in the bass-line -- D, C# -- pushes the music to continue to...
- C, a chord that is in G Major.
- Cm is the same "minor subdominant" chord that's been talked about in the thread a ton already. The "E -> Eb" notes in the chords of C and Cm are pushing to land on D. And we may as well continue the chromatically descending bassline by playing our G with its B in the bass.
- Like I said before, A7 is the secondary dominant of D. By playing it here, you're pushing the ear to expect a move to a D7 chord. Again, because it's not in the scale, there's tension added, so the ear wants to hear the D7 chord next. Also, you're continuing our E -> Eb -> D chromatic descent to C#, so this harmonic tension you're inserting sounds somehow natural to the ear.
- D7sus4 is a variation on that D7 we were setting up with the A7. Try this: play this voicing of plain old D7 -- x54x1x -- after the A7. It's a finger-stretch, but you'll hear that it sounds good, illustrating the secondary dominant idea. Most if not all variants of D7 here will set up your final move to the G chord to complete the passage. That G in there instead of the usual F# adds some more tension, and the ear wants the D7 to resolve to G so that the G note sounds more "in place."
- And then it does resolve to G after all this harmonic tension and your ear goes "ahhh."
I hope that made some sense. If you're confused, please feel free to ask more questions. Aerosmith and the Beatles... I like your taste in music.
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Post by 4real on Oct 11, 2012 21:31:37 GMT -5
Cool analysis, there are a few ways you can hear this tune...and certainly plays on teh mixed minor major thing and that subdominant minor effect works in spades... However, this song is amazing in other ways, check out the erratic time signiture of the tune. You hardly ever get this, certainly in pop these days... here is some background into this tune... McCartney has claimed that the music was inspired by Bach's Bouree in E minor, which he and George Harrison had learned to play at a young age. Paul McCartney Many Years From Now, Barry MilesThe music of Blackbird features a number of time signature changes. The phrase 'Blackbird singing in the dead of night' is in 3/4, while much of the remainder of the song switches between 4/4 and 2/4. His guitar tuning, too, was unorthodox, with the E strings dropped a tone to D. The lyrics were inspired by the civil rights movement in America; the 'blackbird' of the title was said to represent a typical woman facing oppression in the era. Paul McCartney Many Years From Now, Barry Milesfrom www.beatlesbible.com/songs/blackbird/The beatles took inspiration from all kinds of places, from teh classical music to the music hall tunes to the kinds of things that were being explored in contemporary art music at the time, Everywhere. These days you certainly get the impression that writers only listen within their own 'genres' it would seem and are limited by that... Bach... Notice the two part 'harmony' voice leading, in reality two melody lines (filled with that G note ostinato in blackbird) and the number of 'chromatic notes' that are in play (common in minor keys)... You will likely know the tune... While it does not sound like blackbird, perhaps you can hear the the inspiration. Bach is still the 'king' f this kind of thing, but should not be seen so much as a series of 'chords' or 'block harmony' but a combination of interlocking melody lines that will work on all levels. The basic 'chord' like theory is not really sufficient to really understand or describe how it works...
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Post by ijustwannastrat on Oct 12, 2012 16:43:44 GMT -5
So since my brains been ejected out of my ears, I'm going to have to give a better reply when I get home
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Post by JFrankParnell on Oct 16, 2012 11:28:49 GMT -5
For Your Love - Yardbirds Em G A Am I'll give you everything and more, that's for sure (For your love) Em G A Am I'll bring you diamond rings and things right to your door (For your love) Em G A Am To thrill you every night, I'll give you diamonds bright Em G A Am There'll be things that will excite, to make you dream of me at night. Em G A Am For your looooooooooooooooooooooooove
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Post by JFrankParnell on Dec 9, 2012 22:34:09 GMT -5
The classic Major-minor move just before every chorus
Compulsive Gamblers - Walking the Balustrade
They do a pretty fun Telstar, too.
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Post by JFrankParnell on Dec 22, 2012 2:04:59 GMT -5
The Flaming Lips - It's Summertime
I kinda feel like the G goes to Gminor in the verse, but it's very understated if it does. The chorus is pretty obvious, though. Pretty little Beatles-ish lick in the middle, too.
D G It's summertime G F# Bm And I-can understand if you E G Still feel sad
A G Gm Look inside D D All you'll see A G F# Look inside F# All you'll see G A Bm C is a self reflected inner sadness
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jan 20, 2013 23:07:30 GMT -5
Never Any Good - Leonard Cohen
B F# I was never any good at loving you B I was never any good at coming through for you E You're going to feel much better Em When you cut me loose forever B I was never any good G# I was never any good C# F# Never any good at loving you
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jan 23, 2013 16:24:38 GMT -5
Pretty decent cover:
I'd Rather Be Lonely - Loudon Wainwright III D G Every night I get the blues, A D with greens and yellows and chartreuses. G You're still living here with me. A D I'd rather be lonely.
Chorus G Gm Loneliness is happiness, D D7 It takes less than two. G Gm I confess, I digress D A from it when I'm with you.
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jan 28, 2013 16:17:19 GMT -5
Amanda Palmer and the Grand Theft Orchestra - Berlin
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Post by JFrankParnell on Apr 5, 2013 17:41:59 GMT -5
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Post by JFrankParnell on Apr 16, 2013 10:26:46 GMT -5
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 8, 2013 16:35:54 GMT -5
f k (yes, that's the name of the band) - Tether You have to skip to 21:34
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 8, 2013 21:41:34 GMT -5
two in one day A G7 Maybe it's much too early in the game A A7 D Dm Oh, but I thought I'd ask you just the same A F#7 B What are you doing New Year's E7 A B7 Dm E7 New Year's eve?
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 13, 2013 16:55:17 GMT -5
Ridin in the car with my son...wait! Write this one down!
Everywhere I go by Eddie Spaghetti (Supersuckers)
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Post by JFrankParnell on May 20, 2013 23:03:33 GMT -5
E They sat together in the park E2 As the evening sky grew dark E7 A She looked at him and he felt a spark tingle to his bones Am E B A It was then he felt alone and wished that he'd gone straight E F# And watched out for a simple twist of fate.
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jun 1, 2013 10:13:36 GMT -5
Life on Mars - David Bowie
a really beautiful acoustic classical cover
If you watch the PBS documentary, 5 Years, the piano player on the Hunky Dory album gives a nice run thru of the song (but doesnt mention the major minor)
Bb Eb Sailors fighting in the dance hall Gm Gb+ F Fm Oh man! Look at those cavemen go Cm Ebm It's the freakiest show Bb Take a look at the Lawman Eb Beating up the wrong guy Gm Gb+ F Fm Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know Cm Ebm He's in the best selling show Gm2 Gm/F# Gm/F Gm/E Is there life on Mars?
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jun 3, 2013 15:02:53 GMT -5
Baby, I love you - The Ronettes
...but here's the Ramones:
D G A D G A Have I ever told you, how good it feels to hold you D G A D G A It isn't easy to explain D D7 G Gm And though I'm really trying, I think I may start crying D E My heart can't wait another day A D When you kiss me I've just got to say
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jun 13, 2013 7:13:21 GMT -5
Party in the Woods Tonight - Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers.
I could only find this horrible video:
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jun 14, 2013 18:40:12 GMT -5
Space Oddity - David Bowie I bet if I let the Bowie collection roll, I'd find a few of these.
C E7 F This is ground control to Major Tom, you've really made the grade! Fm C/E F And the papers want to know whose shirts you wear, Fm C/E F now it's time to leave the capsule if you dare C E7 F This is Major Tom to ground con-trol, I'm stepping through the door Fm C/E F And I'm floating in the most peculiar way Fm C/E F and the stars look very different today
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Post by asmith on Jun 15, 2013 9:16:26 GMT -5
Life on Mars - David Bowie (...) Bb Eb Sailors fighting in the dance hall Gm Gb+ F Fm Oh man! Look at those cavemen go Cm Ebm It's the freakiest show Bb Take a look at the Lawman Eb Beating up the wrong guy Gm Gb+ F Fm Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know Cm Ebm He's in the best selling show Gm2 Gm/F# Gm/F Gm/E Is there life on Mars? Life on Mars is a strange one. It seems as though 'Maj to Min' happens on the F, and technically it does, but not in the same way as most of the examples in this thread. The chorus is in Bb. Let's redraft the chord sequence up in terms of roman-numeral harmony: I IV Sailors fighting in the dance hall vi bVI+ V v Oh man! Look at those cavemen go ii iv It's the freakiest show I Take a look at the Lawman IV Beating up the wrong guy vi bVI+ V v Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know ii iv He's in the best selling show vi bVI+ vi7 bVm7b5 Is there life on Mars? Most of the examples in this thread have been Major IV to Minor iv, e.g. F -> Fm in the key of C. In Life on Mars, Bowie's written Major V to Minor v. Mitä vittua?! And it doesn't resolve to either the 'root chord,' Bb, or the relative minor chord, Gm, afterwards. But wait, there's more. Later on when he sings "freakiest show..." or "best selling show..." he goes from ii to iv. Note that the ii is the relative minor chord of IV -- so it still gives that 'Maj to Min' impression to your ears. Especially when he sings "Take a look at the Lawman," and lands on the 'root chord,' I. The sequence ii -> iv -> I still triggers that bit in your brain because the important notes of the scale are still doing this: 4 | 6 4 | b6 3 | 5 In C -- 'cause it's easier to appreciate -- that'd be F | A F | Ab E | G Those notes are played if you're playing either " ii -> iv -> I" or " IV -> iv -> I". So it still affects your ear in the same way. I like Life on Mars a lot. I still don't understand how the " V -> v" works harmonically. I wish I could, then I could steal the theory and use it in my own songs.
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Post by 4real on Jun 15, 2013 21:07:56 GMT -5
Here's my mate Shaun Murray's arrangement of this great tune... It's a tricky one that needs to be understood through voice leading more than the resulting 'block harmony' and that a lot of these voices tend to swap registers too that can create a bit of 'confusion'. V of V is not too difficult to understand. In Jazz often and classical and more sophisticated harmony, especially harmony that take heed of voice leading, typical and clearer on a piano...we are looking at strong chromatic falling 4 note semitone movements. Anyway...so in the key of C, V is G7. So in G V is D7. So V of V in C is D7. So you could get sequences like C-A7-D7-G7-C say, which is I-(V of V of V)- (V of V) - V - I ...which may sound 'familiar. Such things are commonly called 'back cycling. Also ii-V-I's are crucial in jazz and can be strung along in never ending sequences and 'back cycled' so as to arive on say the V7 of the home key after passing through several. So as a general rule., You can approach any chord by it's V chord. So C by G7 obviously as a strong resolution. Therefore. Now, you can use chords such as the ii7 chord (Dm7) which are natural to a major key to start such as sequence, or perhaps the iii7 chord Em7 in the key of C. So there are all kinds of variations within the key. Such as C-Em7-Am7-Dm7-G7-C...or you can make those chords 'dominant' to be E(m)7-A7-D7-G7-C or different combinations for effect. such 'moves' introduce odd chromatic notes which are out of the key but make harmonic sense as the progression unfolds. In that last one there will be notes like G# in an E7 chord, C# in an A7 chord, F# in a D7 chord yet still seem to make sense. Such things and voice leading so as to use 'inversions' to create that falling repeating 4 note bass movement in this some, moving the voices into different registers and such, will create this kind of complex chromatic harmony. It does use of course, underlying this approach, those affects such as the minVI and of course, one can approach that from it's V or minV. The min V being the ii chord so completely in key or 'diatonic'. It would take a bit to completely analysis it here, but you will likely be able to see falling chromatic voices within all these chords in close harmony. Obviously as we have seen elsewhere there is a bit of that characteristic melancholy and reflection in the substitution of the minVI chord in the tune and it's lyrical intent. One of the strongest 'resolutions' out of this chord is the 3rd say in C the Fm chord's Ab falling to G is a big part of that 'effect'. Howeer there are multiple different versions of this effect and feels more like changing 'keys' than being analyses as a single key. You will note if you notate out as being in Bb completely, you get a very strong minVI effect both on the Ebm (being the min Vi thing) but also the Fm as well...so a minV. This would be the minVI of c major.... So a complex and tricky to analyses out but the underlying 'effects' of harmony are clear as this thread interestingly alludes too. Here's an interesting a far more thorough look at this song... www.shmoop.com/bowie-life-on-mars/music.htmlThis is a kind of songwriting technique that did ABBA well in their music, to take almost literal use of some classic song or song elements and recycle them into something completely different. It shows though the power of those 'classic' songwriters who came up with these things and the power of the theory behind it so often shoved to one side and less common in guitar influenced music that so often sees things as block 'chords' than a movement of notes that is so much clearer on an instrument like the piano. That does now however mean you can't think in terms of 'piano' or 'orchestra' like movements, but it feels a bit abstract and certainly generally harder to 'play' and notate.
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jun 18, 2013 15:00:57 GMT -5
Someday Soon - Wilco
E A E The wind will blow, and the sun will shine E B7 A On that hill where we used to climb. Am E C#m A look in your eyes and you'll be mine, C E Someday soon
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Post by 4real on Jun 18, 2013 17:57:58 GMT -5
Someday Soon - Wilco E A E The wind will blow, and the sun will shine E B7 A On that hill where we used to climb. Am E C#m A look in your eyes and you'll be mine, C E Someday soon That's got an interesting common but simple variation. The C chord in the last line/cadence is the relative major of the Am minIV thing so has similar qualities, especially as it is preceded by the Am in the previous line. Again 'reflective' C major could be seen as the Am7 without the root note in first inversion (C or third in the bass)... In voice leading terms, the C note is like a b9 of the V chord B7, so in the key of E, it leans back towards B to resolve in that characteristic melancholy way as with the minIV thing. The G note in the C chord, rises to the G# third of the E chord (a kind of pacardy third effect) that has a hopeful almost joyous resolution in that it rises to resolve. Even though a song is strummed in block chords, these kids of voice leading resolutions are still in effect. Know some of this stuff can be used in lead/melody playing or writing for introducing at various points these kinds of effects, even if they are not written into the chord sequence, to produce some interesting effects with some unusual notes. Knowing the logical resolutions helps determine the notes that follow or target...C to B and G to G#
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Post by JFrankParnell on Jun 18, 2013 22:53:10 GMT -5
Yeah, that C is reminding me of a Beatles tune...
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Post by 4real on Jun 18, 2013 23:22:19 GMT -5
Yeah well the beatles were masters of this kind of harmony and such...
You find a similar thing in a lot of blues turn arounds...
C preceeding B7 in the key of E. Or even one of the first I learned, E-E7-A-Am-E-C-B7-(E)
The 'effect' is that chromatic stepped line through the harmony of the notes (B)-D-C#-C-B-C-B-(B)
The song desperado that we talked about previously, has the exact same chord sequence and effect..in G G-G7-C-Cm at the start of the verse...
Yet another example of thinking not just in terms of blocks of 'chords' but of the underlying 'voice leading' and also, to consider the effects of harmony and movement within a sequence.
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