Tremologic

[naturalborn]

A new whammy system, essientally a whammy bar for each string. Advantages = no longer having entire guitar out of tune if one string breaks etc, can change tuning without having to reset everything etc etc plus can bend up on one string while bending down on another.

More details here: www.sonoinvent.com/

[Yew]

It looks nice, but i always hit the guitar at exactly the spot where the pitch-leavers are, so my guitars might send a lot of time being out of tune

[4real]

That's kind of cool, but it is missing the point or potential and a few design/function flaws...

The videos are in the Vai shredding kind of genre and emphasize up bends...i'd suggest that bending up with a trem is not the most often or useful feature of a trem. You can bend down, but you need to reach behind and under the leavers to do so and can only drop as many as you can grab...hmmm

So, you loose the ability to put a shimmer on whole chords and need to be able to locate and manipulate the correct leaver in an unnatural way to achieve drop bends...with a conventional arm your hand is in a natural playing position and will drop all the strings...so there is a problem there, you can after all bend a string up in pitch without an arm, only the tremolo allows you to lower pitch on a fretted note which is the point of having one I would have thought.

However, it has a lot of potential in other ways, you could use it like six 'b-benders' to allow bending strings within chords without effecting the other strings...a lot of potential there and something I have thought about and tried various variations of myself over the years...

It's interesting that this has come up recently as I have had a similar device in mind myself...of sorts. I currently use Kahler trems and there have been some add ons developed and have been working on a few things myself.



This is my latest and main guitar now, an Lp with Kahler trem. I found a thumb screw that matches the thread on the hybrid bridge locking system. I use locking tuners and special nut arrangement so tuning is achieved as normal from the headstock.

So, I have been thinking that the fine tuners are kind of 'obsolete'...however, they do have a potential 'throw' of about a tone and perhaps a little leaver could be developed to bend an individual string up (with the amount of bend preset by the tuner) when the trem is locked creating a 'b-bender' effect (or any number of string-bender, much like this trem but lowering notes).

I did find a bit of a clip of the tremlogic being used with chords...



The real potential for this kind of thing is with B-bender type of things...



And potentially more, perhaps having tunered locking leavers so you could change tunings as with the hipshot trillogy but in a compact form.

The whole bridge is individually floating and I think that might cause some weird tuning problems with palm muting...the kalers and bigsby types are some of the few that avoid these kinds of problems.

But there are a lot of hidden things in most of these devices. Most of the 'problems' with trems are at the other end of the guitar, kahlers are expensive enough, but unless you lock the head (notice you can't do that with this system as it lacks fine tuners) you need locking tuners and roller or teflon nuts and a straight string pull headstock at least. They give no details of installation or how they manage the spring cavity or the type of 'springing' being used.

G'day Yew...If you have a technique where you are likely to be hitting these leavers well behind the bridge, I think you perhaps need to work on your technique a bit more in all due respect!

There is certainly potential in the idea or even developing this kind of thing a bit more, but it has some problems for most players, makes the typical use of a trem, to lower the pitch of fretted notes, difficult and interfering with picking technique to achieve it (reaching back and under the tuner to lower it), and the real potential for the device is not really demonstrated. The vaguely celtic shreddy thing could easily be done just as well with any good floyd or kahler thing, even a fender in the hands of a JB, a bit of a quick up bend or gargled note is hardly 'amazing' anymore, and since these demos are not bending one note against another, there are no advantages in that demo. But potentially, in the hands of one of the helecasters perhaps...hmmm

[naturalborn]

I definitely agree that they haven't shown off its real potential, the 'celtic' video was lacking. A full demonstration would be a very wise move as so for the tremologic is only available in Sweden where they fit it for you. It was about $500 for that service when it was on their website before which is big bucks to spend on a bridge.

There is a video somewhere on youtube of the tremologic being used on a bass. You can see it in this one: but not being used for the majority of it (if ever)

I'd hope they'd release more details of how this system actually works as well as I can't see many people forking out the dough if they don't know whats happening. They haven't stated how far it can bend up or down either.

Your kahler idea is very interesting, would it work by moving by the individual string saddle? on some of the licensed floyd roses they have a feature to lift the string saddle out at the bottom of bridge (probably the speedloader style). As a result of that system, if you can just push on the saddle and you have string bender. If the fine tuners weren't in the way they would bend up as well as down.


^ that feature

[chuck]

looks pretty AWESOME to me !

[4real]

Your kahler idea is very interesting, would it work by moving by the individual string saddle? on some of the licensed floyd roses they have a feature to lift the string saddle out at the bottom of bridge (probably the speedloader style). As a result of that system, if you can just push on the saddle and you have string bender. If the fine tuners weren't in the way they would bend up as well as down.

Not the string saddle. The kahlers are more like a 'bigsby' in a way. TGhe bridge is locked down tight and doesn't actually move, the strings roll across it on rollers (see the picture above on my LP), there is a 'cam' that floats behind it incorporating the fine tuners quite separate from the bridge itself and the springs are quite small without the usual spring cavity of floyds or fenders.

The illustrated 'device' shown on a floyd seems to be to allow for easy change of ball end strings unlike the traditional versions requiring cutting off the ball and locking them down with screws, kahlers are top loading and are far easier than floyds in that way, simply hooking onto the fine tuner levers...you can kind of see that in my pic too, you certainly can see the windings that hold the balls on.

Anyway, I've not seen the things in person but blew up that pic, the saddle seems to completely lift and the string with it, plus the intonation would probably go out and the tension of the springs would radically change throwing out all the others.

The working way to do this is EVH's D-Tuna. Basically, using the fine tuner lever to lower the E string to a preset, a lot of tension on the trem and arranged so it will only go down. Kahler have an adjustable leg accessory to allow down only working and so you can add a lot of tension to avoid detuning with retuning of strings. I personally like the trem to float.

With a floating trem, to retune a single string you are going to either have the EVH down only extra tension thing, or the ability to lock the thing...the kahler can do this, on the LP version there's enough room I found to use an adjustable thumb screw to lock the bridge solid on the fly.

...

So, basically, you could make a lever that has enough leverage to move the lever in the fine tuner mechanism practically while playing. So, I'd propose a lever held on by the fine tuner screw which also doubles the amount of 'throw'. This means that you couldn't use a locking nut, so you'd also have to do the locking tuners special nut thing as well.

But the end result is that you could have a full floating, or fixed floating bridge with the ability to add levers to adjust single strings up while still being able to play and adjustable by the palm or right hand...a bit like the hipshot 'palm bender'...

...

Anyway, I can kind of see how to do it, I suppose if I did do it, I might find it easier to find an application, but I don't just want to incorporate too much of a gimmick or a one trick pony, it would have to have a musical use.

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looks pretty AWESOME to me !

Well yes, but at that price and custom fitting...and not really being able to judge how effective it is and no fine tuners so unable to lock the nut?

I can see how it could be awsome-ish...but really, in that demo, everything could be done with a floyd or kahler or even a fender...that quick upbend is a beck trademark of sorts produced by just punching down on the back of the trem plate.

The loss of an actual trem for traditional techniques is too much for me I suspect...but there is potentially a lot of potential if you had the imagination to use it.

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What I tried to create a few years back, not sure if it could ever be 'practical'...basically it was a fender style 'down only' trem, the the block was segmented into 6 and a ball bearing was pushed down pulling up on each finer to a preset amount. The idea was that each string would have to preset tunings and there would be buttons to adjust each...

So, you would have a trem plus...you could have a bridge activated tuning between different pitches like a B-bender thing, plus able to lock each so you could have multiple tunings...i'd propose...

E A D G B E
D A D G B E
D A D G B D
D A D G A D
D G D G B D
D A D F# A D

and probably a few more...kind of inspired by the kinds of things Adrian Legg does with his banjo tuners

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Anyway, enough from me, it is kind of cool, but the 'idea' is kind of cooler than it is. If playing single notes all of this stuff can be done with a conventional quality trem...but it lacks the ability to trem whole chords easily or to hold an arm in your hand and actually play.

It's like a lot of stuff, the sustainer is a cool idea, but it exists and few have exploited it to the kind of potential it 'promises'.

The trem has come a long way, the floating floyd changed a few things, I suspect it's kind of obsolete in a lot of ways...locking tuners have changes a lot of options for what it could do.

Still, these things go in fads, the full on trem thing seems relegated to the 'shredding' guys...not sure if that is going to come back into style like the 80's.

I use it in more subtle ways, something like Beck in which it is an important part of his sound, and a bit Hank Marvin. I am also playing a lot of fingerpicking type stuff so to get 'vibrato' or scoop into things or shimmer is hard to do with conventional bending techniques.

Something like this would be cool for this kind of thing, the ability to put vibrato on the melody notes and not the bass line say...but really...it bends "UP" and that's not what you want in vibrato, you want it below the notes to give a singing quality. Those up things are really a special "koto' like effect...as in that clip.

[chuck]

the demo was pretty awesome ... i will not spend the cash on one , but it was awesome.

i will just have to make do with the Floyd and Kahler vibrato bridges i already have

[4real]

It wasn't a bad tune, be easy to learn to play from the clip, but to produce that effect all you need do is punch the back of the bridge Beck style or reverse that bar and bounce on it like Vai or Satch to get that 'koto' like effect of a quick up bend to no definite pitch.

I imagine if I were to do much of that I might break strings occasionally. Haven't actually broken a string on one of my guitars in years and years so not sure why that is emphasized as such a feature. The bass thing is a novel idea, not sure how or where you'd be putting it to musical use...

Still, neat looking option with some intriguing possibilities in the right hands perhaps...maybe not at that price...I wonder why it needs to be 'installed'...hmmm

[gumbo]

Check out Boomer Castleman's original Palm Pedal...lots of references on the TDPRI B-Bender board...if you want to look for individual string bending...that's where a lot of these ideas started ...and then transgressed into the (much simplified) Bigsby design...

[Yew]

By Hitting the guitar, think on the snare beats On 'Back in black', the ones where the guitar isnt playing..

Also, On the Solo to "I love rock and roll" (joan jett version0 the guitarist acutally bends the neck of the guitar to change the note, however I reserve that trick for firebird only, no chance on my fragile necked SG!

[ijustwannastrat]

Whoever makes these needs to give the Helecasters these for free. I'm completely with 4real. I am imagining open tunings, a slide, and Jerry Donahue.....


Sorry about that, a little drool on the shirt ;D

[ashcatlt]

Now, if you happened to have both a sustainer and this thing on the same guitar...

The right hand would be relieved of its string excitation duties, and you could devote all 5 fingers to manipulation of the benders. As with any new technique, it would require some practice and experimentation, but it could be quite a good deal of fun!