hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 6, 2010 23:18:40 GMT -5
Background: Yes you read that right - 6 pickups, on a Strat. They are: SD Hot Rails Bridge DM True Velvet Bridge SD Custom Stack Plus DM True Velvet Middle SD Cool Rails Neck DM True Velvet Neck Each pickup will have an independent tone knob and volume knob. Each volume knob will be a push-pull to control if the pickup is on or off. The tone knobs for the SD's will be push-pull to control coil tapping. The DM tone knobs will not be push-pull. I will be following the following scheme: www.1728.com/guitar2a.htmThe SD's will be wired on that scheme. And then seperately, the DM's will be wired on it. The SD's will be wired completely independently from the DM's. Meaning, I will have a three position switch to have either the SD's or DM's on, or both at the same time. Now finally the Question: I have figured out how to adjust the scheme from that website in order to accomodate my plans as outlined above, except for one thing. How do I wire it so that each pickup has its own volume knob? In the diagrams on that website, there is only master volume, rather than what i am looking for. Where would I put the volume controls? Can I just throw them in between each the tone knob and the pickup in the circuit?
|
|
|
Post by newey on Sept 7, 2010 0:32:22 GMT -5
hh73-
Hello and Welcome!
The short answer to your question is that each volume knob gets wired across its respective pickup, before any switching between pickups. Look at any LP wiring diagram to see how this is done for 2 pickups, and then extrapolate out . . .and out. . .and out . . .
Which brings up the issue of how this is all going to fit into a Strat body- not only fit the components in, but fit all the wiring from 6 pups as well.
You propose 6 pickups, 6 volume pots (all push/pulls), a tone pot, and, if you do the SuperStrat wiring you linked to, also 8 DPDT switches and 2 4PDT switches. Plus an 11th switch to toggle between the 2 sets of pickups.
"Never say never", as the saying goes, but I'm going to stick my neck out and say that, unless your Strat is the size of a Bajo Sexto, with a cavity to match, you're not fitting all that in there.
I'm still (slowly) working on my 4-pickup Strat (The "4Caster"- 2 sets of 2 pickups, similar to your 3 X 2 setup), and experiencing fitment issues.
I think you'll need to simplify things quite a bit to get a 6 pickup Strat. Start by losing the 6 volume pots. I'd shoot for a separate volume for each set of 3, with a master tone (using a dual-gang pot)- that accounts for the three pot positions in a std. Strat pickguard. Even then, fitting (with wires attached) all those switches will be a problem. You may need to simplify the switching as well.
On my 4Caster, I used 2 DPDT switches for each set of pickups, for a total of 4 DPDTs. Each pair of pickups can be combined in series or parallel, and each one is available individually as well. The 2 pairs are then combined, in parallel only, via a blend pot.
For your scheme, I might consider (after checking how it's all going to fit . . .) that each set of 3 pickups is controlled by 3 switches, a DP3T ("On-On-On") to select N/N+B/B, a DPDT (could be a P/P on one of the pots) for series/parallel when in the N+B configuration, and a middle pickup on/off switch (SPDT).
This would allow the 3 X 2 pickups to be controlled by 6 switches, 2 of which could be push/pulls. You might actually get that all in there, adding a 7th switch to select between the 2 sets of 3 pickups.
Alternatively, the neck and bridge of each set could be controlled binary-tree style. This requires only 2 DPDT switches for each set (plus the SPDT switch for the middle pup), instead of the DP3T required above.
The downside of this as opposed to the SuperStrat Switching is that you lose some of the possible combos, such as middle in series. But I think that sort of an arrangement might give you a fighting chance at fitting it all in.
Sorry to rain on your parade here, but unless you can unleash the powers of Merlin when it comes to component fitment, I don't see this as viable.
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 1:36:01 GMT -5
Wow! Thanks for your help! I was also worrying about fitting it all!
I am going to be using a wood router to remove the walls between the spaces for pickups. If necessary, I will also add a few more square inches of space (maybe 2 or 3 sq in) to the side of the pickups for more wiring room.
"You propose 6 pickups, 6 volume pots (all push/pulls), a tone pot, and, if you do the SuperStrat wiring you linked to, also 8 DPDT switches and 2 4PDT switches. Plus an 11th switch to toggle between the 2 sets of pickups."
Here's what I was thinking to do in order to scrunch it down (let me know how viable you think this is, as its my first guitar project): 6 of the 8 DPDT switches are going on the volume pots, since they are push-pull and have DPDT built in to them That leaves 2xDPDT, 2x4DPT, a three pos. switch for toggling the 2 sets, and the 6 tone knobs, 3 of which will be push pull for coil splitting.
Its a Squier Strat Affinity... thoughts?
I was thinking put the 12 total knobs I have in a 3x4 grid arrangement below the bridge. The 2xDPDT, 2X4DPT and finally the toggle switch will go below them or to the side.
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 1:44:31 GMT -5
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 1:56:12 GMT -5
Also, I may not need the toggle switch for switching between the two sets of pickups. Since I already have off/on switches built in for each pickup, I could just use those instead for when I only wanted to use certain ones.
|
|
|
Post by wolf on Sept 7, 2010 2:02:57 GMT -5
Hello hh73, you can get a 4PDT for a lot less than $30. On this site www.allparts.com/SearchResults.asp?search=4PDT&x=0&y=0, they are selling one for $12.50. Right next to that they have another switch for $22 but that one is a 4PDT on/on/on type. No doubt, the DiMarzio switch has an extra feature or two. I've used Radio Shack switches myself but it seems most people in these parts get their switches from www.digikey.com In posting #2 you mention If this is your first guitar project than I'd advise against a 6 pickup modification. I'd like to hear what others have to say but I think they'd agree with me. By the way, the website where you found the Super Strat Modification? That's mine.
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Sept 7, 2010 5:40:14 GMT -5
well good luck with it!
For your pots, as stated above, just like standard LP wiring, pickup, tone pot, volume pot (wired normally, outer lugs to pickup, centre and lower lug to output, then the switches. That way, when you switch a pickup off, it cuts out all its pots too so they dont mess with anything else.
You should put a treble bleed circuit on each volume pot, comprising a 220k resistor and 1nF cap, in parallel, from hot to centre lugs. These are important o help your volume pots work smoothly without excess tone loss, particularly in series mode.
John
|
|
|
Post by newey on Sept 7, 2010 8:45:09 GMT -5
OK, I misunderstood- we're talking 12 pots total, not just 6!
Of course, taking a router to the body will buy you some more room, but I don't know if you can get enough for all those pots, especially when they're p/p.
With a router, the one place you can get more room of any significant amount using a std Strat Pickguard is in the area of the right-hand upper bout, since the guard there is over wood. Some of the switching might be put there to save room in the main cavity. Other than that, you're not going to find another "2-3 sq. inches".
Of course, a custom pickguard covering more area would be a different story, but now you're into pickguard fabrication- a whole 'nother project.
Before taking a router to your Strat, and before you spend $$$ for all those pots and switches, I'd advise a feasibility study- get a Strat pickguard, trace the shape onto a piece of cardboard and cut it out. Then draw a line all around the edge to indicate where it will overlap the cavity for the screws. You can then use the template with just a few pots and switches to check for fitment, swapping the pots in and out as needed. This won't completely answer all fitment issues but should give you a basic idea of whether this is even doable.
wolf noted:
I agree. Fitment issues aside, this is going to be very complex wiring. The likelihood that it works properly first time is slim- troubleshooting is almost always needed with these complicated schemes. And while we can help with the design, troubleshooting something over the web is tough- you're going to be largely on your own with that.
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 10:00:32 GMT -5
John: Thanks! I like your treble bleed circuit suggestion.
Wolf: Wow! Thanks for sharing your ideas online!
newey: Yes, I agree with the feasibility study. I am getting measurements and doing a lot of drawing.
I think I should be okay with trouble shooting. I have a friend who might be able to help me. I dont think hes done any customizing on his guitar, but he's an electrical engineering that specializes in electronics.
If I post a wiring diagram, would you guys mind giving it a look over?
Thanks for all your help!!
|
|
|
Post by newey on Sept 7, 2010 14:46:35 GMT -5
Not at all, that's why we're here.
Given that this is 2 sets of 3 identically-wired pickups, with the selector switch as the only common link, it would probably be more readable to just do one set of three pups, either the DMs or the SDs, up to the point of the switch. If the one half is right, the other half will also be correct, so no need for us to trace out the whole thing.
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Sept 7, 2010 15:40:55 GMT -5
just one small electrical problem with the use of the two circuits for the whole ssssss shebang (ie, a small problem, in comparison to the problems of making it all fit in a guitar any smaller than this: www.bobinoz.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/tamworth.jpg ) When you go to all off on the basic design for SSS, the output is shorted to ground. So youll need that last toggle switch to combine the two circuits, but in the combined setting, youd have to have at least one coil from each half on. John
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Sept 7, 2010 16:09:01 GMT -5
hh, Hi, and to the NutzHouse! I have to say, I don't think I can recall anyone ever coming on board with such an ambitious project, right out of the gate! I'd like to go on record as saying: ignore all the naysayers here - go for it! However, I do have one little request - tell me you don't intend to take this monstrosity on stage.... please tell me that this for your own amusement, in your own home..... With all that switching power under your hands, then I can easily imagine that by the time you've gotten around to selecting the next combinaton of pickups for "that magic mojo tone", the song is already half-over! I'm intrigued, and since no one else has said it, I'll be the first - Post Pics! (<-- clicky linky)And when you're done, post sound clips! ;D HTH sumgai
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 17:08:51 GMT -5
However, I do have one little request - tell me you don't intend to take this monstrosity on stage.... please tell me that this for your own amusement, in your own home..... With all that switching power under your hands, then I can easily imagine that by the time you've gotten around to selecting the next combinaton of pickups for "that magic mojo tone", the song is already half-over! Haha, I dont see myself playing gigs, I am pretty busy guy right now! And thanks for your encouragement! I will of course post pictures, schematics, and diagrams along the way and for the finished product
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 17:11:33 GMT -5
just one small electrical problem with the use of the two circuits for the whole ssssss shebang When you go to all off on the basic design for SSS, the output is shorted to ground. So youll need that last toggle switch to combine the two circuits, but in the combined setting, youd have to have at least one coil from each half on. John I'm not sure I understand. At this point, I dont think I will have a toggle switch to control the 3 SD's Humbuckers vs 3 DM Single coils . They will both be wired as seperate systems that output to the same output jack, but now there will be no toggle switch. I am doing away with the toggle switch since there is already on/off switches for each pickup, making the toggle switch redundant and pointless. What do you think? A wiring diagram should be coming in the next week or so.. (im busy, but putting all my free time into this)
|
|
peterrabbit
Meter Reader 1st Class
My mileage DOES vary
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
|
Post by peterrabbit on Sept 7, 2010 18:09:56 GMT -5
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 18:34:39 GMT -5
peterrabbit,
WOW! Thank you! This will be very useful to me! I am starting to build a parts list now. Thanks for those resources!
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 18:43:30 GMT -5
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 20:05:17 GMT -5
I plan on using a wood router to remove everything that is colored blue inside the red boxes: As you can see from the pots in the picture, the push pulls will not take up too much room.
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 20:13:20 GMT -5
What do you guys think of a plexi glass or polycarbonate pick guard? It MAY look cool to show the electronics and wiring? Maybe I could put a blue light in there with a battery? Hmm
|
|
|
Post by ijustwannastrat on Sept 7, 2010 21:11:34 GMT -5
Yes to plexi, no to lights.
BTW, when I saw this, I thought I developed a stutter in my eyes. Then I realized what happenededed...
|
|
|
Post by wolf on Sept 7, 2010 21:23:22 GMT -5
hh73 Have you considered if the push-pulls will fit in terms of depth?
I own an SG (a very thin guitar) and I can't use push-pulls because their depth would require removing the wood at the bottom of the guitar cavity.
It might be worth your while to see if push-pulls will fit into that guitar.
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Sept 7, 2010 22:04:32 GMT -5
A good point about depth - I have fitted p/p pots into Stratish bodies, but it's important to check.
On the need for the final toggle switch, I still think you may need one. Lets say all your SD pups are off, then that side of the circuit will be providing a 'shorted out' connection from ground to hot, thus killing all sound including anything from the other side of the circuit.. This effect works fine when you only have the 3-pup version, 'all off' is then nice and quiet. (Wolf - am i right in sayin this about your circuit? Im assuming it works the same as my versions)
If you end up seeking a simplification to save space, and also to solve this issue, how about just building one half of the circuit, ie with 3 volume and 3 tones, and before all of that, have three extra toggles to combine or select pickups, in pairs, before the pots? You wont lose any coil combinations, but therely be fewer knobs to tweak
John
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 23:16:24 GMT -5
hh73Have you considered if the push-pulls will fit in terms of depth? I own an SG (a very thin guitar) and I can't use push-pulls because their depth would require removing the wood at the bottom of the guitar cavity. It might be worth your while to see if push-pulls will fit into that guitar. I too am the proud owner of a Gibson SG, yes they are quite thin! Yes, they will fit in terms of depth. I did not joke around when I said I was doing tons of measurements! Thanks for reminding me to check! Would you be able to look at the parts list I posted and see if those meet your specs for your Super Strat Wiring?
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 7, 2010 23:20:36 GMT -5
A good point about depth - I have fitted p/p pots into Stratish bodies, but it's important to check. On the need for the final toggle switch, I still think you may need one. Lets say all your SD pups are off, then that side of the circuit will be providing a 'shorted out' connection from ground to hot, thus killing all sound including anything from the other side of the circuit.. This effect works fine when you only have the 3-pup version, 'all off' is then nice and quiet. (Wolf - am i right in sayin this about your circuit? Im assuming it works the same as my versions) If you end up seeking a simplification to save space, and also to solve this issue, how about just building one half of the circuit, ie with 3 volume and 3 tones, and before all of that, have three extra toggles to combine or select pickups, in pairs, before the pots? You wont lose any coil combinations, but therely be fewer knobs to tweak John Thinking....
|
|
|
Post by newey on Sept 8, 2010 0:06:39 GMT -5
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 8, 2010 0:14:37 GMT -5
Thank goodness you found those! Thank you thank you thank you!
;D
|
|
|
Post by wolf on Sept 8, 2010 2:56:21 GMT -5
John HWhen you talk about my circuit you mean the one at www.1728.com/guitar2a.htmcorrect? Well, if I've studied that correctly, in series mode, when all the pickup switches are "off", the output is shorted and totally silent. (resistance = zero ohms). In parallel mode, even though the switches work as true "on / off" switches (just as a light switch works) when all pickup switches are "off", this completes the series connections and the output resistance reads zero ohms once again. That parallel mode setting really surprised me and I thought it should read infinite ohms ... but I'm glad I put a test meter onto the guitar before I pressed the "Post Reply" button.
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Sept 8, 2010 8:35:06 GMT -5
John HWhen you talk about my circuit you mean the one at www.1728.com/guitar2a.htmcorrect? Well, if I've studied that correctly, in series mode, when all the pickup switches are "off", the output is shorted and totally silent. (resistance = zero ohms). In parallel mode, even though the switches work as true "on / off" switches (just as a light switch works) when all pickup switches are "off", this completes the series connections and the output resistance reads zero ohms once again. That parallel mode setting really surprised me and I thought it should read infinite ohms ... but I'm glad I put a test meter onto the guitar before I pressed the "Post Reply" button. That's right, same as my ToneMonster2 and Brian May designs - so he'll need to seperate them if two such circuits are used for this 6 pup version
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 9, 2010 0:17:29 GMT -5
A higher resolution version is coming soon! Yes, I am aware of the missing ground that should be on the last pin of the 4PDT
|
|
hh73
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
|
Post by hh73 on Sept 9, 2010 2:34:13 GMT -5
A good point about depth - I have fitted p/p pots into Stratish bodies, but it's important to check. On the need for the final toggle switch, I still think you may need one. Lets say all your SD pups are off, then that side of the circuit will be providing a 'shorted out' connection from ground to hot, thus killing all sound including anything from the other side of the circuit.. This effect works fine when you only have the 3-pup version, 'all off' is then nice and quiet. (Wolf - am i right in sayin this about your circuit? Im assuming it works the same as my versions) If you end up seeking a simplification to save space, and also to solve this issue, how about just building one half of the circuit, ie with 3 volume and 3 tones, and before all of that, have three extra toggles to combine or select pickups, in pairs, before the pots? You wont lose any coil combinations, but therely be fewer knobs to tweak John I thought about it, and I think a simpler solution would be to add a resistor to each of the two branches, right before the output jack. That should prevent shorts. What do you think?
|
|