Bandy Practicey stuff

[Yew]

hey guys, after a few months of searching ive finally got a band at Uni.

However this does come with the bad news of getting to knoe everyones little quirks, strengths and weaknesses, and favorite tones. Usually this wouldnt have been a problem in my old band, as we could practice at our guitarists house. However we are all university, in blocks of flats. Even though i do have drumkit in my flat (that Desperately needs tuning ,i cant do it that well as im not a real drummer yet) I wouldnt want to practice there too much, Lest i be evicted

So we are going to hire a practice room, Has anyone got tips on how to make the most of our money? how to get it cheaper? or stuff like that?


Also to get to know eachother we are learning some covers, should we get one nailed, then work on the others, or learn them simeltaneously?



Yew

[JohnH]

Congrats yew - I wish Id done that at your age, instead of 25 years later!

If you go to a reheasrsal studio, you can usually get blocks of 3 hours or so, and its not to much split 4 or 5 ways. Id try to avoid spending extra on hiring studio amps etc, since its wasted money and usually rubbish gear. Sometimes there are cheaper times of the day too. Do you all have suitable transport for your gear?

If you want to learn some covers, each make some suggestions, and come up with about 6 or 7 that you are all happy to try, which means you all like them and have playable parts. Then make sure someone takes charge of each song, to get the right lyrics, song structure and chords and print them out for everyone. A reference MP3 is handy too. The internet is a wonderful tool, and most internet chords are wrong.

[asmith]

Yew lucky bugger. I tried to get a few bands off the ground during my time at Uni, all to no avail.

JohnH is right on the money about using your own amps (most of the time and definitely at first), booking in bulk and splitting multiple ways between the band members.

Scope out for multiple rehearsal rooms instead of just settling on 'the one that everybody uses 'cuz it's like, cheap and cheerful' - there will most likely be a cheaper, nicer one somewhere nearby, run by a friendlier dude. This sounds like one of those false 'insider tips' that musicians 'share' with each other to impress nobody, but I've found it to be a strangely accurate rule of thumb.

Get to know that dude as a friend as well - he's as important as another band member, will probably end up helping you out recording demos, and will likely have a larger breadth of contacts regarding venues and equipment than you do. Even if he's "just got their number." That isn't a slight - I've been in situations the other way round as well. It sounds old and hackneyed half the time, and heaven forbid I should use the word 'networking' seriously, but this old concept of 'who you know' is true - scriptwriters take commissioning editors out to lunch all the time, authors pick up the wine bar bill for their publishers. That's all a bit formal; just get the guy plastered one night. You have nothing to lose. A guy I used to know used to rent his (not too shabby) equipment out to us for free because we were friends with him, offer us lifts to places in his van; the works.

John's also bang on about agreeing on covers, and being sensible about getting all the parts right, and someone taking charge. That last remark raises a hugely valid point.

It has been said many times before that bands work best as a benevolent dictatorship. This is true, but not always in the way the lead singer thinks it is. In my experience, not just a healthy band but just a healthy organisation is one where one person constantly moves the band forward and says things like "if you're not all happy about this, speak up now, because I'm not having someone agree half-heartedly on whether we should cover this song, only to resent it for a long time down the line." This'll instill confidence in the band from the band members as well - this attitude makes everything better.

Having said that, if one of the band members starts going, "right, we're doing this, and this, and this," regardless of how well he means it, it's a death note for the band - even if everybody else is happy to act as sheep to that shepherd, down the line anybody can see there's going to be arguments. To validate my own words: Don Henley may have a point about the principal songwriters holding most of the power, but it's important to note that bands in which that occurs have been going a long time, and with very little doubt, all the guys in the Eagles definitely agreed on one thing - if Don Henley and Glenn Frey write the tunes, they get to charge £120 a ticket.

Those last two paragraphs were hugely patronising, I realise. They boil down to an overlong answer to your question about how to organise getting to know each other through covers.

Might I suggest another way to get to know each other. Get together as a band, without any other people, visit a bar, and destroy yourselves. Or another less enjoyable harmful activity, although 'bowling and laserquest' is a bit fifteen-year-old. It helps, honestly. I've done it with bands, film crews, and work colleagues, and the improvement in how you all 'click' has been noticeable every time (or I was just drunk to notice the rough edges).

Most of all, work at it, but remember that the promise of fun is the best motivation for getting stuff done.

Hope that helps. My apologies if you already know some/half/most/all of what I've said.

Al Smith has been in a few bands, but is only in his twenties and is less of a sage than he would like to think. He has a degree in Film Production that should be more useful in the real world than it is, plays a second-hand Squier Stratocaster, and has a weakness for gin, whisky, classic cocktails, craft beer and methylated spirits.

[JFrankParnell]

Well, one short lived band I was practiced at our buddy's place for the low low price of a half rack of schmitty-pop(Schmitt, a brand of possibly the cheapest beer ever made, and you def got what you paid for) per night!

Not sure where you're from, but round here, you can rent a storage unit, basically the size of a garage, for pretty cheap. And usually, they're out in the non-residential part of town, big plus there. A band I was in had one, and then we moved into another down the row which another band had made a room inside the unit out of 2x4s and carpets and stuff to keep down the metal wall echos.

And yeah, if there arent guys with songs ready to go, covers are a great way to start. Get a whole set of them going at once. Think of a bar or club or party that you'd want to play at, what set of covers would be good for that scene? Pick a set of songs to learn and schedule a show (maybe a party or as an opening act) for a couple months down the road. Now you've got something to aim for and a deadline. Get to work!

[newey]

Also to get to know eachother we are learning some covers, should we get one nailed, then work on the others, or learn them simeltaneously?

I'd say learn them simultaneously. It often helps to put one thing down for a while, then come back to it later. And, some will come together quicker than others do, so by running through several you can see where your time needs to be spent.

[sumgai]

yew,

All good points above, but I'm gonna "contest" one of 'em.

Playing original material is always good for the soul, the 'artist" within you, but that won't "sell" to the venue that hires bands just like yours. Said venue owners/managers hire bands for one thing, and one thing only - to bring in people who want to listen to live music while imbibing profit-producing beverages, obviously those purchased within said venue.

Now, what do those people want to hear? The answer was skirted around, above, but here it is - they want to hear (and dance to) familiar songs/tunes. Things they know, and things they've already shared with others. That's what gets them in the door, and what keeps them coming back for more of the same, trust me on this one.

So, what about those covers, or to be more specific, how closely do those covers have to match the original, in order to "keep 'em coming back"? Turns out, not too close after all.

The deal is, if you're playing a familiar tune, you need a couple of sure things, and the rest will fall into place. (Well, usually fall into place, sometimes you'll just have to wing it...... ) What do you have to "get", in order to succeed? My short list:

1) Tempo;

2) Hook(s);

3) Lyrics;

4) Sound (arrangement of instruments);

and most of all;

5) The Vibe (or the feel).

Experience tells me (In Capital Letters) that you can jigger the first four quite a bit, but if you muff Number 5, you've blown it, and may as well have not bothered. What I'm sayin' here is, if the audience isn't fairly screaming for you to "play it again", then you didn't do your job. You should be leaving them wanting more, much more, and that's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

How many times have you walked into a club (or wherever) and instantly cringed, because the band was "so bad"? And when you stopped to think about it, you were unhappy because they didn't make you feel the same was as the original tune, eh? That's what I mean by "the Vibe". If the performance doesn't groove, then it should've been aborted in the practice room.

So, new list. There are two kinds of covers:

a) The ones that make people yawn, and ignore you;

b) The ones that make people forget their personal conversations and get the hell out on that dance floor - right now!!

You are, of course, welcome to play whichever kind you like. But if you're smart enough to get into the University, I'll bet you're smart enough to figure out which kind of cover is gonna make or break your new band.


.....


And when that's all done, when the band has such a highly regarded name that people are calling you to come play at their venues, then is when you can start inserting your own tunes into the set list. You don't have to trust me on this, but I think that EVH sets a pretty good example:




Probably my second favorite rendition of that one. If you think that audience isn't groovin', then somebody better check your pulse! (My favorite - Atomic Kitten. hehehe) In fact, check out EVH on YouTube, there're lots more covers from their early years, which any fan from their bar days will tell you, that's what first made them into a name to be reckoned with.

HTH






sumgai

[sumgai]

Jan 26, 2011 10:27:39 GMT -5 asmith said:

..... we should cover this song

Strangely enough, it was one of Seattle's most highly regarded musicians who said (in the late '70s) "I feel cheated, 'cause we didn't have Sesame Street when I was growin' up."

Just wanted to share that, thanks.




sumgai

[irwired]

Hi Yew

The very best of luck with the band!
Last September my niece got married on the north shore of Lake George NY. Both the bride and groom's family had been spending summers there for generations.
They hired a local cover band that they had been following for 25-30 years and they ROCKED! Everybody wanted them to play till dawn, and they almost did. They very closely followed SG's formula for success. They played everything from contemporary rock to Irish fiddle tuness, blues to bluegrass. One of the best nights of music in my 58 years.
Also mentioned on this thread was the importance of having fun. This band had the more fun that night than the audience that crammed the dance floor till they turned the lights out. ;D

Play good and have a blast.

IRW

[cynical1]

The best practice area we ever had was the Bingo hall at a local church. The drummer went there as a kid and all we had to do was let them use our PA to announce the Bingo games, clean up from the nights Bingo and set the room right when we left.

Bingo broke up at 9:00 PM and by 9:30 we were set up and playing. (lesson learned early was to do the mind altering substances AFTER you clean and setup) Since the residences were all along a busy street away from the hall we could play as loud and long as we wanted... That lasted a while...until the drummer got a new girlfriend and left the band.

The best advice I can give anyone starting a band is that if you expect to make money, everyone has to treat it as a job or a business. Would you blow off work to hang with your girlfriend? How many times could you claim being too drunk to drive as an excuse for missing work? And once you hear the fatal words "My (insert girlfriend, significant other or spouse) thinks we should be doing it this way"...it's time to re-think the lineup. The Visigoths have arrived at the gates.

Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun and played with some good players...and have my share of humorous anecdotes. But the bottom line is that a band is an expensive proposition. It's a lot of work and a lot of long hours. If it's not a passion it will become an albatross.

Well, that was a trip down memory lane. Thanks for reminding me that I once had hair...and it was long, brown and curly...

Break a leg.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[Double Yoi]

The only rules I ever followed when doing covers are as follows:

1) Dont cover a classic unless you can nail it or put an interesting spin on it.
A good example of nailing it is Pearl Jams version of The Whos "Love reign o'er Me".
I think the metal band Disturbed did a cool version of "Land of Confusion" by Genesis.
2) Dont do greatest hits. You will get more credibility for covering an obscure or b side selection of a popular artist. I always liked it when someone would come up between sets and say I havent heard that song in years. (Blue Jean Blues)
3) Dont do hometown bands. If youre from Dublin dont do U2, If youre from Charleston Dont Do Hootie, If you from The UK I would advise against covering Oasis but, if you knock out "I am the ressurection" By The Stone Rose, the desired effect should be acheived!
4) Dont do The Doors if you have no keyboards, I ve seen it, It was weird.
5) Throwing an original between a Hendrix and Beatles cover is not a great idea. We would always finish each set with the originals.

Of course I do not and have not ever claimed to know what Im talking about, Have fun, Meet ladies and remember the guys on stage are the coolest dudes in the room! Good Luck

[JFrankParnell]

"4) Dont do The Doors if you have no keyboards, I ve seen it, It was weird. "
although, I was in a band where the guitarist had a synth pup set to piano and we did a very cool version of riders on the storm.

[Double Yoi]

jfrankparnell,
I bet that did sound cool!
I suppose if you had the means to, or a player who, could emulate that sound either with technology or technique, you could pull it off.
Guess I forgot the adage" never say never"!

+1 for reminding me!

[cynical1]

Anybody who was playing in the 80's remembers that if you were in a band sooner or later you had to have a keyboard player...or you wound up in a band that had a keyboard player wannabe... You couldn't swing a dead cat back then without hitting one...but I digress...

Anyway, we found this guy, Clarke, who was good...and had a non-conversion van...so he was in... (I still remember his name because he always smoked Kents...no kidding...but I digress again...)

So now we could cover all the current stuff that could get us gigs. But being diehards we still played some of the harder stuff from the 70's in the sets. Clarke was able to come up with a respectable cellophane\comb type "kazoo" sound, so we started playing Crosstown Traffic again. It actually sounded pretty respectable live.

Clarke had a very cute little girl, around 5-6, that always hung around at practice like a little statue. Never caused any problems, always sat and listened...and was a good barometer if we sucked that night... He taught her to play a few simple things...just a real smart cute kid.

On to the humorous anecdotal part. Well, one night we're playing away and next on the set list is Crosstown Traffic. We start out just fine, some people in the bar recognize the opening and start to make noise...and then the kazoo comes in...but it's not a kazoo anymore... Imagine the largest nastiest bull elephant you ever saw...and imagine this elephant had irritable bowel syndrome and suddenly presents the classic symptom of excessive flatulence... We made it through the song...granted, we all were close to tears from laughing so hard...thank God the people in the bar took it as a joke, too...

Later we determined that his daughter had found the black and white keys tiresome and started playing with the other buttons...namely the presets and their associated parameters... Clarke said he spent two days reprogramming his synth...

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but the reference to the guitar synth brought it back... Well, it's medication time...back to the ward...

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[ashcatlt]

I'm completely sure that the old guys are right as far as your odds of making money. If you want to get paid 300-400 a night 3-4 nights a week doing 4 hour sets you'd best be ready to play "Rolling on a River" with the same enthusiasm the 5th time as you did the first!

On the other hand, I personally know a few people who have managed to put together some original music which is actually good. They apparently make enough money from this to do nothing but drive around the country playing music.

Me? Before this Circadian Nations thing, the most I"d ever made off of music was streaming Lorenzo's Tractor to myself off of mp3.com. (maybe the reason they went under...)

Both of my current bands have members with private basements and cool neighbors, but CN lucked into a situation with a local bar who makes more money when our band comes in and drinks than she would on any other Monday night. So she lets us sit up on stage and dick around for a couple hours. When there are people there who we don't know we run through the songs that we have down strong, but a lot of times there's just nobody, and it's really just a practice session. I strongly encourage you to seek out a similar arrangement somewhere.

A while back I came to the realization that I was pretty much always going to fail at a cover someway or other. Yoi's points are good ones, but no matter what you do somebody in the bar is going to tell you that you missed one of them, and that's really the only one that matters. Sometimes you'll have several people telling you different things.

The way to avoid this (IMNSHO) is to make the song your own. Play it as though it was your original. Throw in some little variation on the main hook or something. If you play it well folks will be digging it, then realize that it's their favorite song, and dig it even more!

Or they'll call you a heathen!

Maybe none of this helps. Anyway, the most important thing you can do is play together! Do it as often as possible. Try to get everybody together as often as possible, but don't put off a practice just because one or two guys have plans. Everybody else should get together and play.

...And transitions! Doesn't matter what anybody does as long as everybody starts, changes chords, and ends at the same time.


Edit - It's been a long weekend, and it just keeps getting longer!

The real answer to your question is "Amp sims and drum triggers!" Add a mixer and headphone amp and you're rocking anytime, anywhere. Everybody can be as loud as they want and only the vocalist is likely to wake anybody up. Also forces everybody to hear the overall mix and how they fit into it. This is a completely new experience for a drummer.

Wait. What was the question?

Wait, what was the question?

[Yew]

Thanks for the tips guys.. I might end up just giving a link to this thread to the people in the band..

Only thing that worries me is the.... vague.... direction of the music..







Quite a selection no? I think the ACDC and the crashdiet stuff arent too different.. Like if you averaged them out you would get def leppard, but with a higher drummer arm coefficient..

The nivarna? Could that sound good with more of a classic rock tone?

[Yew]

Also, about having a deadline and target.. the music scene in my city is really picking up now.. it died a few years ago, but now lots more pubs see live bands as a good income booster. I know a guy who is trying to schedule bands for one of these pubs. maybe letting him know we can do a slot. thn picking some stupidly simple classic songs (that everyone likes, and we need very little practice for) to get a slot early in. then if it goes well we can be called back, with more ambitious songs

[Yew]

Hey all,

Just an update here, ive just had a practice, 2 hours, and nothing really got done. struggled for equipment at my flat (amps and leads) and then nobody knew the song we had planned.. no drummer so we couldnt even really jam anything.. im hoping we have some lessons learnt for next time, so we can get into action and (something to do with guitars getting girls)

[JohnH]

You’ll get there!

What we do if we want to learn a song is:
Decide what it is
Google search for the title, with the words ‘chords lyrics’
Pick the most credible version on the internet and put it into MSWord
Listen to it line by line from an Mp3 with the lyrics, and correct them as necessary (because all internet versions are wrong)
Check the chords (because all internet chords are wrong), and write them above each line, at the exact word where the changes occur
Add into your version, the positions of solos, breaks, chorus etc, to get the whole structure down right.
Make the chords bold, make the font as large as possible but get the whole song on one page
Give everyone a print – with chords and lyrics. Everyone can follow those and its enough to get a basic version togther.
Listen to it together
Try it yourselves!

J

[JFrankParnell]

haha, John, that is my EXACT procedure!

[cynical1]

Very good method JH. We didn't have the Internet starting out so we used to use Fake Books. Honestly, if you start playing at 9:00 PM the crowd is already on the road and generally lit by 11:00 PM. Maybe one or two people will detect the wrong change or odd bar, but for the most part, if they make noise at the end of the song you done good.

The idea of getting the changes down and the progressions right is more important then the note for note stuff. The more you play the same songs you're going to find yourselves adding your own touches.

As long as the crowd is sticking around and drinking the nice man that pays you will be happy. And that's the bottom line...for all parties concerned.

Have fun and relax. It will come out in your playing and the crowd will pick up on it. We used to play the 3 Stooges "3 blind mice" theme song at the end of the night. (...looking back, I wonder if it was Freudian...since we were a 3 piece...) Oddly enough, that got better reactions some nights then the stuff we slaved over.

My point is anyone can do covers, and you make a living doing them, but if you can separate yourself from the other cover bands just a little you can swing more gigs.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[4real]

Oh...this topic take me back...

To add to john's advice, a basic easy to read, single age chart if only basic with the chords and lyrics, intro and solos clearly marked is a must...do it on the computer and make sure everyone has the same copy.

Get yourself and each player a plastic sleeve folder and put the songs in there, you can arrange them into a practice set list perhaps later...indispensable...

Get a drum machine! Drummers get frustrated easily, especially with people trying to get material together. A drum machine forces you to play in time and for the song to continue till the end without stopping. A basic pattern for each song is enough.

Be sure to write the pattern number and tempo on the top of the chart, in the book. Cant tell you how important this is. Every now and again, change the pattern to get a different feel and inspire perhaps a different take on a song.

Make a true assessment of your abilities and equipment and those of your players.

Always play in tune and in time...this is far more important than you might think and we all have a blind ear to it...this applies especially to singing.

On singing, be aware of the capabilities and regardless of the key a song is in, be prepared to change that to suit or to ditch it as unsingable/playable if not.

If you don't have a PA or amp for the singer, play soft enough that he/she can be heard...if you have a drummer, a PA will be essential. Have band practices without the drummer present or have a lot of material ready for when you start auditioning for them...really they can be a PITA god bless 'em!

...

Do Play For Girls!!!!

Generally, if you attract girls, you attract guys, and everyone drinks and everyone's happy. Don't make the mistake of playing for guys or being some guitar wizard and think that alone will make you appreciated. Try hard not to be self indulgent, you can do that on your own

If there is a bit of competition about, spy on them, but especially the audiences...what is it that they are liking and appreciating about the band and music and atmosphere...what can you offer...how do you compete within your abilities.

Make every note count...leave lots of space so people can hear those parts and be sure that everyone has a part to play, but knows when to stop making some noise...it will produce a far more powerful effect.

Develop a 'band sound'...this can take a bit of time...but after a while arrangements should come together a lot faster.

Learn your parts away from the rest of the band so that you are prepared and this tends to put the pressure on the others to work at a similar pace to keep up.

Covers are good, but it can be a hard gig. There is some expectation that you will sound like the record which is a tall order in most genres. You might consider 'twisting' the arrangements. I have heard some amazing versions of things...I recall seeing this girl do an incredible sultry version of 'whole lotta love' for instance. You might consider changing the lyrics of some female songs for a male vocalist...often this will twist the lyric to have a different connotation.

Work out what are the elements required, or combine the styles of bands you like and can play, with songs and cliches of another style.

A band like Dread Zeppelin made a killing and a loyal following with their mix of LZ songs, reggae beats and elvis impersonator a lyrics...they were also great players...but the novelty value of such concepts may well be enough to ensure gigs and audiences.

...

On the practical side of playing in a band...it can be a lot of hard work and expense.

I played pub gigs in the 80's. We had to provide our own PA...we hired as cheap as we could. Needed at least some basic lighting (we had some stolen traffic lights as I recall). You need to have some 'security' of some sort, possibly also a 'girl on the door' taking money.

Someone has to take charge of the money, getting the gigs, being paid...publicity...etc...

In my main gigging band, that all fell on me pretty much...manager, gig getter, shmoozing the landlords...lead singer, lead guitarist, PA hirer, etc.

I joined early on (before they had a bass player) but they called the shots on what to play (I answered an ad for a guitarist) so it wasn't 'my band' as such even though i was expected to attempt to sing whatever was on offer. Here's a tip, don't sing 'little tin soldier' and expect to keep our voice!

I recall I'd have to turn up around 6-7pm and set up the PA and such...mind it till 10pm when we'd lay....we'd play till 2am...then pack the stuff up and head off across town, take the PA back in the morning. I had my girlfriend on the door and a few other unpaid hangers on to ensure equipment didn't go missing, but being unpaid, they were not always reliable. That is a very hard job...but it has its rewards.

Realistically, picking up chicks is not something that is easy to manage on the actual gig though you have to play the part. Not many chicks are going to understand that as well as sweating it out on stage for up to 4 hours on and off, you are doing that after hauling everything is, and facing hauling everything out at the end. You can give 'em your number and see them off the job potentially, but the small time band is nothing like the romantic notion people have of it and you will need help regardless as your equipment will go walking if you don't keep an eye on it.

...

Anyway's...early stages yet.

Until recently I was jamming with a bass player most weeks. We'd play for about 4 hours, with about an hour of which taking a break and having a laugh, drink and smoke. I had to take an amp and guitar and drum machine and practice amp and books about a 120km return trip. He used to come over here, which was better as I have a spare amp set up and he only needed to bring his bass and books.

We practised at a volume that allowed me to sing...so not incredibly loud.

When we first met, I had some things I had learned, had some charts printed out and he came with a few things he had been learning. Fortunately, we had a shared interest in Motown stuff and he had been specializing in James Jamerson's style and could read pretty well most of those songs. However, all of those songs have 3 guitars, two keyboards, a horn section and up to 5 singers...possibly an orchestra...LOL

We did work out a good sound though. Generally we would come to sessions with some idea and a chart printed out. We'd give it a go, if it didn't work out, we'd put it to one side possibly never to be seen again. We also played a bit of jazz and other stuff for kicks. Some things were impossible for me to sing...some very tricky to play and sing...

Generally though, we would have a few songs we knew we could play to get us back into the groove. We could set up to play within minutes and have the drum beat all worked out ready to roll.

At the end of the session, we'd be talking music and songs we liked, things we'd heard on the radio and such as you do. From that, we'd get ideas for things and make some commitment that we would be able to at least play through it in some basic form by the next time we met.

...

There are so many thing really...get together some spares, strings, spare guitar lead...

Oh...and each player should have something they can play on your own for emergencies. I was studying classical guitar, so i had a few party pieces there I could drop in on the Les Paul if someone had to do something quickly (like tune up). Having something to say to an audience is kind of important too!

Have fun, but be prepared for things to go wrong and still have to put on a 'show'...

I recall one 'horror gig' where I was seriously sick. To be fair, I was studying full time, band practice (involving a bit of drinking) 2x a week, a regular friday night residency in a pub...and a part time job as i recall.

I had the worst headache and then just before going on at 10pm...i ran to the bath room and threw up 3x! I then had to play incredibly loudly (we were a who cover band) and do the whole shtick regardless, pack up, drive and collapse. It is possible, the adrenaline will see you through...but it is not easy.

Also, where there is drink, there is generally trouble. I recall almost losing two front teeth when a drunk dancer hit the mike stand while singing mid song. Fortunately, we had someone who came to our gigs to steer them away and to watch over our instruments so we could use the loo, wash off the sweat between sets, have drink, mingle with the audience...get paid! The hanger ons are pretty much indispensable and I couldn't thank them enough...and they were never paid.

A good strategy when you get things together a bit more and a drummer is to hire a room with another band and work together where ever possible. This give you twice the people to help out, halves the expenses (practice on different days) and you might even be able to pool some equipment...plus who ever gets gigs can bring the other band as support...so you halve the playing time and can share the audience. It's a good marketing feature for getting gigs, 2 for 1 deal and it takes some pressure off.

In the end our little band of 4 got so loud and played for so long...we hired a pavillion at the annual show grounds here in melbourne with another band. We also had 4 regular hanger on girls a couple of guys

So...hard work, but you will certainly have an adventure and a new appreciation of what people have to do, to get where they are...

You for sure will collect a few war stories...