|
Post by darkerknight on Apr 10, 2011 10:53:05 GMT -5
Hi there... I recently bought a 90's Jackson Warrior Pro, wich was missing all the electronics (except the original Kent Armstrong minibucker rail pickups) The Warrior has a Jackson custom 5 way switch (with 24 lugs). I bought in stewmac a super switch, but the stewmac super switch is different from the jackson custom 5 way switch, which have 3 rows of lugs, and the super switch only have 2... both switches have 24 lugs but I don't know the conversion from the jackson (3 row) switch to the stewmac (2 row switch)... I have the original schematics for the guitar. Please someone help me... I just need the wirinig to finish my guitar... Thanks in advance... Please excuse my english... I'm from Venezuela
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Apr 10, 2011 11:37:39 GMT -5
darkerknight, First, Hi, and to the NutzHouse! Second, the switch you purchased from Stew-Mac is the exact same thing as the original switch mounted into your Jackson. The only "small" difference is, the Jackson switch has half of the solder terminals (or 'lugs') turned around - they face the opposite way. Which way is correct? Neither - all of the lugs could face either way, as the Jackson switch demonstrates.... all of the lugs work just fine, no matter which way they face. I suggest that you redraw the diagram with all of the lugs sitting in two rows. Then re-number them, 1-12, just like Jackson did. Now, you want to work from left to right, upper row first. Lugs 1-6 are the old 'top' layer with only 6 lugs. 7-12 are the same as the original numbering scheme. On the bottom row, 1-6 are the same as the original 'middle' row (the long one), and the remaining lugs on the bottom row have no wires connected at all. Sounds hard, I know, but try it. Draw first, make sure you understand all of the new wire positions, then start soldering. If you have any more questions, let us know. Oh, and post sound samples and pictures when you're done! And finally, third. I wouldn't worry about your English, at least not on this forum. Probably 25 or 30 percent of our members here are not American, and don't speak English as their native language. We all get along just fine! ;D Hope that helps sumgai
|
|
|
Post by darkerknight on Apr 10, 2011 20:44:01 GMT -5
Thanks Sumgai, but I just tried that and it was a complete mess....
Anyone come up with another idea of how the super switch works compared to the jackson custom switch??
|
|
|
Post by newey on Apr 10, 2011 22:09:53 GMT -5
We know how the Superswitch works, it's the Jackson switch that's the oddball. Do you have a multimeter to check the switch functioning?
In looking at your photos, I see a circuit board in there, so I'm guessing these are active pickups? I mention this because your diagram is confusing, unless these are active/passive pickups.
How many wires are there from each pickup? Your diagram only shows 2, and both go to the same places on the switch, which doesn't make much sense unless there's some active circuitry afoot.
In short, I can't figure out the logic of your switch from the wiring. You're going to have to check the switch logic with a meter.
EDIT:We also don't yet know what the Jackson 5-way switch was supposed to be selecting. What pickup combos did this have originally?
|
|
|
Post by darkerknight on Apr 10, 2011 22:43:53 GMT -5
Yes, in effect the warrior pro comes with an active circuit (the JE1500) and that's like a para mid EQ (kind a wah thing). But in my case, all the electronics were missing, so i'm using the on/on switch to have split coil in the neck and bridge.
The pickup configuration for this guitar originally is:
Position 1 (all the way down switch): Bridge Position 2: Bridge and middle Position 3: all 3 pickups Position 4: Middle and neck Position 5: neck
All 3 pickups are kent armstrong minibucker (just like a hot rails) 4 conductor wire.
Here is a review of the Warrior pro (not mine) so you can get the idea:
|
|
|
Post by newey on Apr 11, 2011 17:12:53 GMT -5
OK, if you were going to use the Jackson switch I would need the switch logic, as above, but if all you want is a diagram with a superswitch to do passive stuff, that I can do. I assume that you want all 3 in parallel at position 3? And parallel at 2 and 4 as well? I won't be able to get to a diagram until later in the week, though, so if someone else jumps in here, that's be fine!
|
|
|
Post by darkerknight on Apr 11, 2011 18:18:07 GMT -5
OK, if you were going to use the Jackson switch I would need the switch logic, as above, but if all you want is a diagram with a superswitch to do passive stuff, that I can do. I assume that you want all 3 in parallel at position 3? And parallel at 2 and 4 as well? I won't be able to get to a diagram until later in the week, though, so if someone else jumps in here, that's be fine! Thanks newey... I got the Neck and Bridge running ok with super switch and the on/on switch for the split coil, but the middle pickup is the one that is giving me trouble to find in which lug is going.... The positions I would want from the stewmac super switch: Position 1 (all the way down switch, farther from the neck): Bridge HB (standard humbucker) series Position 2: Mid HB + Bridge HB in series Position 3: Mid HB (standard humbucker) series Position 4: Neck HB + Mid HB in parallel Position 5: Neck HB (standard humbucker) series If someone could give a diagram I would be very grateful... Thanks in advance for all the help... This is all I need to finish my guitar...
|
|
|
Post by newey on Apr 13, 2011 22:00:56 GMT -5
darkerknight- In re-reading your post as to what you wanted, I realize I may have misread it. I understood you to mean that you wanted the 2 coils of each HB to be wired in series (intra-pickup series), in other words, wired as HBs usually are. Then each HB would be combined in parallel (a "+" connection) with other pickups, so that the 5-way gave the std Strat parallel combinations. This scheme doesn't require a Superswitch, it could have been easily done with a regular 5-way switch, since it's just regular Strat wiring with HBs instead of SCs. Now that I re-read it, I'm not so sure you're not wanting the pickups combined in series (inter-pickup series) as well. I'm confused by the way you tossed the word "series" in there in referring to positions 2 and 4. Anyway, I drew it up as I originally thought you meant, Strat parallel style. If I misread your wants, let me know and I'll redo it. Note that this was drawn showing 3 tone connections; you would choose which 2 you wanted. Regular Strat is neck and mid tone controls, with no tone on the bridge, but adding a bridge tone, usually by eliminating the mid tone, is a popular mod. There are no settings where 2 tone controls are active; this is unlike a regular Strat, where the 2 tone controls interact in position 4 (neck + middle). So, I hope this was what you wanted :
|
|
|
Post by darkerknight on Apr 13, 2011 23:39:13 GMT -5
Thanks Newey! I realized that I count the positions as #1 strating all the way down, and the standard is #1 the neck position and then going down) Using the standard this is the config I'm looking for: Position 5: Bridge HB (standard humbucker) series Position 4: Mid HB + Bridge HB in series Position 3: Mid HB (standard humbucker) series Position 2: Neck HB + Mid HB in parallel Position 1: Neck HB (standard humbucker) series I think the standard strat configuration can't give me 2 HB in series, the position 2 and 4 are always in paralell in a strat. I need the 4 position as HB's in series. I think it's each coil of the HB in series (standard HB) and each HB in series also. I think it's to use it like the kent armstrong motherbucker. I think that's why they use a jackson custom super switch, to give the 4 position a more aggresive rhtm config. Thanks again for all the help... You rock..... P.D. I'm confused with the color code in the kent armstrong pups... The first diagram that I got for the original wiring has the black and green wires conected to the switch, then the other diagram and pictures that I got for the original wiring has the white and green wires connected to the switch, and now your diagram got the red wire connected to the switch?
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Apr 14, 2011 0:00:13 GMT -5
I think the picture of the guitar clears up all the confusion. The M and B pickups are actually more like one big B pickup which can be split to either the bridgemost or neckmost "coil". This is auto-split toward the neckmost when combined (in parallel) with the N pickup. According to this the "position" lugs of all 4 poles of the Superswitch are numbered in the same direction. It really just makes sense when you think about the way the switch has to work internally, as well. That means that newey's diagram will work if you wire "by the numbers", but not if you wire it to look exactly like the diagram. Of course, it's not exactly what you want anyway, but hopefully will help get us closer.
|
|
|
Post by newey on Apr 14, 2011 5:23:40 GMT -5
Dang, I looked at that and still got it turned around. Anyway, since DK has now clarified that's not what he wants anyway, I'll fix that in the final mix. . .
DK-
Just to clarify things, we'll use "+" to indicate a parallel connection and " * " to mean a series connection. When the 2 coils of a HB pickup are connected together in series, we'll call that a "full HB".
Numbering the neckmost position on the switch as "5", which is the way you originally did it and the way Fender does it, you want:
1) Bridge full HB 2) Bridge full HB * Mid full HB 3) Mid full HB 4) mid full HB * Neck full HB 5) Neck full HB
Correct?
EDIT: Also,
Well, my diagram is in parallel, so let's just forget that entirely. The info I had on Kent Armstrong wire colors (which I posted in References yesterday, BTW) was for a regular HB, not the rails. I assume the colors for both types are the same.
I was going by:
Red (or Pink)- Screw coil Start Black (or Blue)- Screw coil finish Green- Slug coil Start White- Slug coil finish
This suggests that, for series wiring, the first diagram you saw with the black and green connected to the switch was correct. This is the way I'll do it on the second diagram, too, unless someone tells me the sequence is wrong.
|
|
|
Post by darkerknight on Apr 14, 2011 5:59:47 GMT -5
It will be: 1) Bridge full HB 2) Bridge full HB * Mid full HB 3) Mid full HB 4) mid full HB + Neck full HB 5) Neck full HB Again thanks for all the help...
|
|
|
Post by cynical1 on Apr 14, 2011 6:00:34 GMT -5
I have a Kent Armstrong rail pickup in project #1. As far as wiring colors for Kent Armstrong pickups, according to the sheet that came with the pickup, and assuming Jackson DIDN'T have some proprietary colors, here's what I have, along with DiMarzio and SD for comparison. Pickup Manufacturer | Adjustable Pole.......... | ............. | .......... | Slug Pole.......... | ............. | .......... | | Start "A" | Finish " B" | M.P. | Start "C" | Finish "D" | M.P. | DiMarzio Humbucker | Green- | White | South | Red+ | Black | North | Kent Armstrong Rail Humbucker | Red (Pink) | Blue (Black) | South | Green | White | North | Seymour Duncan Humbucker | Green- | Red | South | Black | White | North |
God forbid there ever be a standard... Hope this helps. HTC1
|
|
|
Post by newey on Apr 14, 2011 6:20:56 GMT -5
Cyn's info comports with mine on the wire colors so we're probably good there.
OK, I got it now, position 4 is in parallel, not series.
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Apr 14, 2011 10:28:51 GMT -5
But there's no call for splitting any of those humbuckers, so why are we connecting the green and black to the switch?
|
|
|
Post by newey on Apr 14, 2011 18:24:11 GMT -5
Well, DK said the original diagram had it inside out like that, I figured maybe I had the Start/finish backwards.
So long as I do all 3 the same, and so long as the "finish" of one connects to the "start" of the other, they should all be in phase, right?
|
|
|
Post by newey on Apr 14, 2011 20:11:21 GMT -5
OK, subject to possible correction of wire colors, I think this should do it. I left off the bridge tone option and just show a neck and mid tone connection, ala std. Strat, but without interaction of 2 pots at position 2. Tone pot selections can be varied to taste. DK- Don't start wiring just yet, let's have someone sign off on this. I think it will work OK, but just to be sure. Also, in that there does seem to be some question about the correct KA color sequence, testing of the actual pickups may be a good idea. I'm going off of your statement that the black and green were wired to the switch in the original scheme. Note that wires which connect are shown with a dot, wires which just cross each other are not connected to each other.
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Apr 14, 2011 21:15:08 GMT -5
Position 2 is silent (M hanging from hot).
This is really just an HS scheme. The easy way to do it (and the only way I can think of right now with 3 poles since we're using the last for the tones) is to have the M*B permanently wired and short across the one we don't want.
B black and M green to C3. M black to P2T1-4. Hot output to P3T1. Ground to P3T3 and 4. Leave all of P1 and P4 as is. Apparently I'm numbering the poles (but not the throws) counterclockwise around the switch. B and N green stay grounded.
|
|
|
Post by newey on Apr 14, 2011 21:35:29 GMT -5
OK, you'll need to explain this to me, as I've looked at Position 2 over and over again, and I don't see the problem. Br Green is permanently grounded, the B * M series chain at position 2 starts there. Through the Bridge coil, black wire out to pos. 1 on the LL pole of the switch, via blue jumper to lug #3 of the RL pole, where it is connected to Mid Green, then through the mid coil and out the Mid black wire, to pos. 2 on the LL pole, which is then the only one connected to the output, (since the lever is at pos. 2). That blue jumper worried me but it doesn't seem to create any issues that I can see at other positions. At pos 3, it's grounding the Br hot, but the Br isn't active there anyway. At pos. 1, the Br. black connects to the output, and the jumper then also connects the mid green to the output, while the other end of the mid pup is disconnected. So I guess the mid is hanging from hot at position 1, but as I see it, it all still ought to work OK. Ash, your way is probably easier, but I'm learning as I go along here, so please help me understand this problem.
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Apr 15, 2011 3:51:24 GMT -5
Oops! Yep, sorry. I think I saw that when I first looked at it, but when I came back to double check it just didn't seem to work. Sorry about that. Well, your description of the flow will help us all see it more clearly.
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Apr 15, 2011 22:19:13 GMT -5
newey,
Your hanging hot issue in Pos 2 is easily resolved. Remember my earlier lesson to you: think invertedly - IOW, reverse the input and output of the lower-right pole, and I think you'll find the solution quite rapidly. ;D
BTW, I'd give some more consideration to the Mid tone control..... you have it set up now so that it darkens both Mid and Bridge in Pos 2 - is that what you want, or more to the point, what darkerknight wants? Most, though admittedly not all, series setups connect a given pickup's tone control directly across the output leads, not from Hot to ground. Just something to consider. Perhaps an alternate diagram, to clarify the two possibilities.......
HTH
sumgai
|
|
|
Post by darkerknight on Apr 16, 2011 7:03:20 GMT -5
BTW, I'd give some more consideration to the Mid tone control..... you have it set up now so that it darkens both Mid and Bridge in Pos 2 - is that what you want, or more to the point, what darkerknight wants? sumgai First of all I want to thank all the people that take the time and patience to help with the diagram. You guys rock!... The config of my guitar has 1 volume and 1 tone. Originally the guitar has 1 volume and 1 knob to control the active circuit mid sweep (to open the mid range like a wah). The active circuit has 1 on/on switch to activate. Since my guitar has all the electronics missing, I'm changing the circuit knob for a tone knob, and the on/on switch to make split coil on neck and bridge HB. Before all this I got the neck and bridge HB running ok with the split coil and the middle HB was the one that was giving me trouble.
|
|
|
Post by newey on Apr 16, 2011 8:04:56 GMT -5
DK-
OK, if it's a master tone, just ignore the light blue wires entirely and wire it as in any master V and T guitar, the tone comes off the Vol pot hot lead.
I'll fix the hanging from hot issue as suggested by sumgai. The hanging pickup is not a deal-killer, but in some situations can contribute to noise.
|
|