bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 25, 2011 10:17:24 GMT -5
Hello again! So I'm on my strat project n.2 which will have 2 humbuckers(that i want to be able to split). So my question is, is it possible to only use a 5 way switch to be able to get the following combinations: bridge humbucker only, bridge single coil, both humbuckers, neck single coil and finally neck humbucker, with position one being bridge humbucker and so on. Is it possible ? or do I have to get another switch ? I'd rather not drill another hole in the pickguard if possible Thanks in advance!
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Post by asmith on Aug 25, 2011 10:44:46 GMT -5
Do you want that "both humbuckers" in parallel, as per a usual Les Paul? If so: The "HB Connection Wires" are the wires that connect one coil in series with another for your Humbuckers.
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 25, 2011 10:53:15 GMT -5
yes thats what i want, but i dont really understand that diagram :/
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Post by asmith on Aug 25, 2011 11:11:49 GMT -5
OK. The box in the diagram represents a Five-Way SuperSwitch. This is a great image to explain how the connections physically translate into the diagram. If you look at the SuperSwitch, it'll click how the actual lugs translate to the boxes on the diagram. The different wires are annotated instead of drawn out connected to the humbuckers so that it pushes you to think about it yourself because I'm lazy, I'm at work and I only have access to MS Paint. The "Hot" wires are the standard "output" wire from your humbucker. The "Pickup Grounds" label indicates that that wire running off should connect to both of the "ground" wires of your humbuckers. The "Ground" wire on the diagram connects to the usual ground connections in your guitar. The "HB coil connection wire" labels refer to how your humbuckers are put together. Humbuckers are two Single Coils in series with each other; here's a good image that illustrates it. That connection between the two single coils is what I've referred to as the "HB coil connection wire." Look at the image I've just linked to and imagine a wire running off from that connection. When your switch is in the positions that you want the "Single Coils," that connection between the Humbucker coils links together with the Ground wire. This "shorts" out one of the coils, and you only hear one coil. If that's not clear, just post back and we'll sort something.
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Aug 25, 2011 11:15:58 GMT -5
ahh its a little clearer now, i looked at my switch and its not a superswitch thats why i got confused from all lugs
thanks for the help!
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Post by asmith on Aug 25, 2011 11:28:25 GMT -5
Oh, you've only got the standard Five-Way Strat Switch? I don't believe it's possible, though I'd like to be proven wrong. I recommend buying a SuperSwitch for this mod. They're not expensive.
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Post by newey on Aug 25, 2011 18:11:26 GMT -5
I believe asmith is right, no way to do exactly what you want to do with just a std. Strat 3/5 way. Deaf Eddie can get you pretty close with this design. Even though it's for a Tele with a neck HB and a SC at the bridge, the Bridge sc could easily be replaced by a HB, hard-wired in series and wired just as the SC in the diagram is wired. Deaf Eddie's Tele HB/SC 5-way schemeMaking the Bridge pup a HB then gives the following combos: 5) Neck HB 4) Neck coil cut 3) Neck HB, Bridge HB in parallel to one coil of neck 4) Neck coil cut + Bridge HB 5) Bridge HB So, not exactly what you're after since it splits only one of the HB. The oddball at Position 3 probably sounds pretty much like plain old B+N, although we're never had someone try this, so no empirical evidence. You could also use a push/pull pot (or two . . ) to split the HB(s), thus avoiding more holes in the 'guard, if that's the real sticking point. There are also "Push/Push" ones for those averse to pulling.
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Post by ashcatlt on Aug 25, 2011 18:37:17 GMT -5
What if we wire one side of the switch like the "pickup" side of standard strat, and wire the other side with the appropriate "series connection" wires on lug one and three and ground* on lug two? The common on the second side of the switch is left unconnected and the ground ends of both pickups are tied to ground. Pretty sure that gets bonnerik exactly what he requested.
Since the SCs are never combined we don't need to worry about "inside out" wiring or any of that.
* Hot output would work here, too, but then you'd have that shorted coil hanging from hot thing which makes some people nervous.
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Post by newey on Aug 25, 2011 20:19:09 GMT -5
I looked long and hard at that and I can't work it out. We can't "wire one side of the switch like the pickup side of a std. Strat" because it's 2 HBs, not 3 SCs. If you wire the series connections to one pole and ground the middle lug, you can't use that pole to switch the 2 "hot" leads. So, one pickup goes to lug #1, one goes to #5 (numbering lugs as 1-3-5 here)- what do you do for position 3? Left unwired, position 3 is dead; jumper one of the "hot"s over to lug #3 and you screw up your single-coil settings at 2 and 4. At least, that was what I took you to mean, Ash, like: EDIT: Note that the switch lugs in the diagram are labeled 1-2-3, instead of 1-3-5 like I did it, but you get the point.
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Post by JohnH on Aug 25, 2011 21:12:30 GMT -5
I also think that a superswitch is needed to get these settings J
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Post by ashcatlt on Aug 25, 2011 21:13:23 GMT -5
facepalmblushpuke!!!
Sorry.
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Sept 20, 2011 8:02:03 GMT -5
thanks for all the replies! i've taken a break with my mods but now i've started again, and i've purchased a 5 way super switch! should i go with asmiths diagram? also, i know that on my 2 old humbuckers both of em have 2 wires taped away, (black and white). to use only a single coil in one position i have to use these 2 wires right ? so what would the hb coil connection wire be? one of the pickups is an old seymour duncan distortion. the wires are 1 ground(bare/green) 1 red(hot) and then 1 white and a black. i'm not sure about the dimarzio bluesbucker.
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Post by newey on Sept 20, 2011 14:58:43 GMT -5
asmith's diagram will give you: 1) Bridge HB 2) Bridge coil cut 3) Neck HB + Bridge HB 4) Neck Coil cut 5) Neck HB If that's what you want, then use asmith's diagram. yes, where asmith shows "HB coil connection wire" is where both the black and white wires are wired, for the bridge and neck respectively, as shown. Some HBs have only the single coil connection wire, so that's what the diagram shows, but if it's 2 wires together, they both go to that point. You're going to have to correlate the different wire colors from the SD and the DM, as per the following:
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Sept 20, 2011 20:32:44 GMT -5
so green and bare are ground on both. on the seymour duncan the red and white are the coil connection wires and the black is hot, and on the dimarzio its the black and white with the red as hot, yes ?
i've also heard wiring up a super switch will give you a headache, but from asmithsd diagram, it doesn't look harder than wiring a normal switch.
oh and btw, i want the north coil on the neck pickup and the south coil on the bridge (both coils closest to neck respectively bridge). would that mean, that i would have switch 2 wires' places? like make the south start on the duncan pickup hot and the north start one of the humbucker coil connection wires ?
thanks again for the replies!
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Post by newey on Sept 20, 2011 23:11:18 GMT -5
Yes, you've got it. No, you have to switch 4 wires on one of the two pickups. Our friend wolf explains this on his website, what he calls "inside out" wiring. He uses DiMarzio colors to illustrate this: HB Coil Cut switching from 1728.com
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Sept 21, 2011 0:07:40 GMT -5
hmm okey. so i had to write this down and see which colors i ended up with using seymour duncan colors. what i've got is that with alternate humbucker wiring using duncan colors is that white= hot, black = north coil, green = south coil (green and black = coil connection wires), and finally red = ground. is this correct?
just asking, will the sound differ alot from north/soul coil on the bridge pickup ? it is tilted.
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Post by asmith on Sept 21, 2011 6:01:54 GMT -5
Well dude, that all depends on which pickups are in which position. Let's call the two possibilities Bill and Ted. If it's set up like Bill's, with the Seymour Duncan as the Neck pickup, wire like so: And if it's set up like Ted's, where he's rocking the DiMarzio for the Neck, wire it this way: Whichever way you wire, be excellent to it.
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Sept 21, 2011 6:28:24 GMT -5
haha, thanks for the reply. well the dimarzio is a neck pickup, so i have to roll with ted. but isnt the hot wire on the seymour duncan pickup supposed to be white if im going with alternate wiring? as i want the south coil on the seymour duncan pickup to be the active one when splitting. what is the actual difference between north/south coil in my case anyway?
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Post by asmith on Sept 21, 2011 6:52:22 GMT -5
Your Seymour Duncan pickup works like this: So when you wire it up Ted-style, essentially you're doing this: If you trace the wire paths, you can see that when the switch is closed, everything heads to ground except the output of the Screw Coil. That means that in the "Bridge Single Coil" position, only that pickup outputs your signal. Way.
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Sept 21, 2011 7:02:16 GMT -5
ok thanks its a bit clearer now. but what will the actual sound difference be between north/south coil on a bridge position ? the south coil should be a little more treble side no ?
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Post by asmith on Sept 21, 2011 7:08:02 GMT -5
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Sept 21, 2011 7:12:36 GMT -5
lol ok thanks.
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Post by ashcatlt on Sept 21, 2011 11:11:17 GMT -5
And now that you've got that sorted I'll go ahead and confuse things a bit.
All of this "inside out" wiring business is necessary only if you insist on shunting the unused coil to "ground". You could go ahead and shunt the other way - to the "hot" - for one of the pickups without any of the headache. There is a whole empty pole on asmith's diagram with which to accomplish this.
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Sept 21, 2011 11:21:43 GMT -5
i decided to just use the north coil on the bridge pickup, otherwise maybe i might not like the too trebly sound. thanks though
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Post by JohnH on Sept 21, 2011 15:30:53 GMT -5
You can wire it to pick which coil is single when you cut, as discussed. You might want to do that becasue screw coils and slug coils can sound different, and also if you are cutting both pickups, to get a north of one and a south of the other so that they hum-cancel togther. On the sound, if they are covered humbuckers, then I found the screw coil sounded better on its own. For uncovered pickups, either could be preferable or they cound be the same.
Once you have the coils cut that you want, you are at liberty to rotate the pickup on the guitar to get positions as you wish. This makes little difference at the neck but a bit of difference at the bridge. For my bridge HB, I have the coil cut to just the screw coil, and I place this so it is on the neck side of the pickup.
John
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Sept 26, 2011 13:14:48 GMT -5
i've now soldered it all, but ive got 2 problems. it appears as if position 2 and 4 does nothing different from position 1 and 5. i think that in position 5 and 1, both humbuckers are wired in series. the other problem is that my volume pot does next to nothing the first 3/4 and then stuff starts to happen, i want it to be more spread out.
thanks in advance
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Sept 26, 2011 14:02:20 GMT -5
also im not sure if position 1 on the switch gives me bridge humbucker in series, it doesnt really sound that way. i dont know how paralell sounds, but what i hear is almost like a mixture between the bridge and neck humbucker(in position 1) although the neck pickup is not active when im in position 1.
when i think about i might have put a 250k pot in....hmm because what i get is a little more muffled muddy sound(even with treble on 10 and bass on 1),most notably on the bridge pickup, and the seymour duncan distortion pickup is not a muddy pickup at all its really trebly.
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Post by newey on Sept 26, 2011 14:34:45 GMT -5
You should be hearing some difference at position 2 and 4. Do you have a multimeter available?
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bonnerik
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Post by bonnerik on Sept 26, 2011 14:39:41 GMT -5
i can get hold of one tomorrow i think.
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Post by newey on Sept 26, 2011 15:38:05 GMT -5
If you can, connect a cable to the guitar and put one lead of the meter to the tip of the cable's plug, the other to the barrel. Set the meter to 20K Ohms range. Turn V and T to 10.
Now check the resistance in each switch position and report back your results. This should tell us if you are getting the coil cuts as you should be at 2 and 4.
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