John 5 Telecaster wiring issue

[huntgl]

Hello all!

I have a Squier John 5 Telecaster; I've taken the 2 original humbuckers out and replaced them with a Bare Knuckles Stormy Monday (PAF clone) in the bridge, and a Lace Hot Gold sensor in the neck. The John 5 is wired to have two separate volume controls for each p/u, but I wanted to change this and have a standard vol and tone setup. I had a look around for a wiring diagram, and the closest thing I found was this:

www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_1v_1t_3w

Obviously this is for 2 humbuckers, but I figured it wouldn't be a problem to use with a single coil instead with the same setup. After re-assembling the guitar, only the neck pickup works, both with the switch at neck only, and at neck/bridge setting. The tone control does nothing, so at this stage I am assuming I have cocked something up. Prior to re-checking everything, I wanted to post this to check if anyone sees any issues with the wiring diagram?

Cheers all ;-)
Gary.

[JohnH]

Nothing wrong with that diagram in itself. But it shows a Gibson type of switch and maybe yours is a 'Tele' switch? maybe an Asian variation. This diagram is another possible reference:

www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=tele_1sing_1humneck

although sc and hb are the other way round to your scheme.

If you are using different makes of pickup, getting the wiring colours right needs careful study. THere is also a risk then when its all working, the two pickups are out of phase if they put there magnets differently orientated - this can be simply adjusted for if necesary in the wiring by swapping leads around.

But I suggest starting by getting the tone control to work. That should be functional whatever pickups are working or not.

cheers

John

[newey]

JohnH-

The John 5 Tele models feature a Gibson-style toggle switch instead of the normal Tele switch, the toggle is located on the upper bout on these guitars like an LP.

huntgl-

John's right, the tone control should be working regardless, so you have at least two independent issues. Double check your tone control first, and then check the bridge pup connections, both hot and ground. The likelihood of a fault is at one end or the other.

I assume the pickup was working in the former version of this guitar, so that there is no possibility of a dead pup, right?

[huntgl]

Thanks for those replies, I appreciate them. As Newey says, it's a Gibson type toggle switch. Both pickups were working perfectly before, so it seems your advice to sort out the tone pot is next on the agenda ;-)

It's probably just a simple wiring ck-up, but the thought of diving straight back in wasn't very appealing for a lazy bloke like me!

Cheers again. I'll keep you posted...
Gary.

[huntgl]

Here we go for my idiot moment ;-)

If there is no capacitor on the tone control, and that particular tab from the pot is soldered directly to the back of the pot, will that stop it from working at all, or would it still let some signal through?

Cheers again!
Gary.

[newey]

If there is no capacitor on the tone control, and that particular tab from the pot is soldered directly to the back of the pot, will that stop it from working at all, or would it still let some signal through?

If there is no capacitor, then the tone control will act as a sort-of volume control- in a 2-wire rheostat fashion, as opposed to the 3-wire potentiometer wiring we usually see on a V control. With the knob at 10, you should still get the max signal.

But the tone control can't function as a tone control without a capacitor. This guitar originally had dual Vol controls, so you'll need to add a capacitor to convert one of them to a tone control.

[huntgl]

Thanks again for the reply ;-)

Here's where I am now...

I have effectively disconnected everything as I was getting no signal at all via the pot, and now the p/u live is connected direct to the output jack, with the ground wire, bridge ground, and jack ground all connected to a single ground point on the body. In this configuration I am getting a signal, but there is a hug amount of hum which gets worse when I touch the p/u live wire which is connected to the jack hot tip.

Does this give you any clues as to what might be going on?

Cheers,
Gary.

[ashcatlt]

A Tone control without a cap should still work more or less like a Tone control. Much of the action comes from the cable capacitance and loading of the pickups. It should also cause the guitar to go silent when it's turned all the way down to 0. Were you using the center lug and one outside lug, or both outside lugs?

For your new issue:
Hugs are nice!
The hum should get louder when you touch the jack tip or anything attached to it. It's just like touching the tip of the cable itself. Does it get quieter when you touch the sleeve, the bridge/strings, or any of the ground wires?

Have you got a meter?

[huntgl]

Yes, it does quieten down, but to be honest the hum is way too loud, so there's clearly something wrong here. I don't have a meter, but I think it may be the only way left to know if the p/u is faulty. Am I right?

Cheers again ;-)
Gary.

[huntgl]

I've taken the Bare Knuckle out and put the original p/u back in to see if that works, and it seems fine. I only wired it in the same, very simple set-up, but it was ok, which indicates that there might be a problem with the Bare Knuckle!!! I can't understand how as it was working fine when I initially put it in (straight swap). The only change I have made to the wiring is that I had to extend the black and bare earth wires, which I soldered together onto a new length of wire. The joint is fine and strong, so i'm struggling to how what else may have happened to it in between time

[newey]

The joint is fine and strong, so i'm struggling to how what else may have happened to it in between time

It may appear to be good but may not be so good. You might try revising those solder connections. That is much more likely to be the problem than the pickup itself.

[huntgl]

I have just tested the p/u with a newly acquired meter, and there is no reading whatsoever

I bought it second-hand, so hopefully the original owner will have some sort of guarantee, if not, i think I'll have a go at opening it up and looking inside, as it doesn't seem worth sending it back in terms of cost etc. Dissapointing for this brand, but it seems overall their build quality is excellent.

[huntgl]

I'm not even getting a zero reading on the meter; it's doing nothing at all. Would this suggest that there is a broken wire somewhere in pickup?

Cheers ;-)
Gary.

[newey]

Are you sure the meter is working correctly? Touching the leads together should give "0Ω" when set to measure resistance. If it's not auto-ranging, set it to the 20KΩ range setting.

Assuming it is, a reading of "0Ω", or a very low resistance, on the order of a few Ohms, suggests a dead short in the pickup. This might be repairable if it is the output wires that are somehow shorted together.

A reading of "over limit" ("OL" on my meter and many others) or "out of range" would indicate a broken wire somewhere. If it's not obviously one of the output connections, then a full rewinding would be needed (and probably not worth it without the proper equipment).

[huntgl]

The meter is working fine and shows 0 when the two leads are put together. When they are not connected, it shows a '1', and that is exactly how it stays when i connect the pickup: not a flicker; nothing!

[ashcatlt]

Okay, that ain't good. It does explain most of your symptoms. Are you getting this out of range reading on the original pickup wires or on the wires you tacked on, or both? It seems strange that it would just suddenly go open in the middle of the coil. Is this a covered pickup, or can you see the place where the coil wires connect to the "outside world" wires?

[huntgl]

I removed the wire extension, and I still get nothing on the original wires. I think it's strange that it's gone like that, but to be honest I've just stuck it in the post for a rewind. I've spent a fair amount of time on it now and I'm pretty fed up with the fact that I've got a duffer, but that's how it goes sometimes I guess :-) I've had some good help from a guy called Spencer at Shed Pickups (Wales, UK), so I've trusted it to him. His pickups and service seem to get rave reviews on the forums, so I'm pretty sure it'll come back sounding better than ever.

I'm sure there are a few links to his site on guitarnuts, but I'll post another one here anyway for good measure ;-)

www.shedpickups.com

Once again, a big thanks to everyone that chipped in; it's really appreciated and has helped me learn a little bit more ;-)

Cheers all!
Gary.