Need help, HSH split coil and all...

[krade23]

Hi there,

I wanted to know, if anybody in here has a diagram in stock with the following specs, as neither dimarzio or any other site have them;

HSH configuration
Dimarzio DP190 "Air Classic" (Four conductors)
Dimarzio DP419 "Area 67" (Four conductors)
Dimarzio DP191 "Air Classic (Four conductors)
5-way switch Ibanez style; like this:

1 volume, 1 tone.
Mini-switch (DPDT EP1108) On/on/on (only gonna use 2 of them if possible)

Selector would be as follows;

EP1108 "off"
Position 1: Bridge
Position 2: Bridge/middle(split)
Position 3: Middle
Position 4: Neck/middle(split)
Position 5: Neck

EP1108 "on"
Position 1: Split Bridge (only one coil active)
Position 2: Split Bridge (only one coil active) /middle
Position 3: Middle
Position 4: Split Neck (only one coil active)/Middle
Position 5: Split Neck (only one coil active)

(The last setting could either be used for a killswitch, or just the same as one of the other settings)

Is this in any way possible, and if so; How?
Do one you have a diagram for this, or would you mind make one?


Sincerest Krade23

[newey]

krade23-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

What you're describing, as far as the 5-way switch, is the way a lot of Ibanez guitars do HSH switching, what I have called "progressive coil switching" in the past.

Ibanez uses a special type of 5-way switch, with different internals, to accomplish this. Your diagram depicts a standard sort of import-style 5-way switch.

When you say that, at position 2 and 4 on the 5-way, you want "bridge/middle (split)" and "neck/middle (split), respectively, I assume this means that you want the full neck HB with one coil of the middle pup at #4, and that the opposite coil of the mid pup would get used with the bridge at #2.

If you truly want to split the middle pickup, then the regular 5-way won't do it. Positions 2 and 4 are not independantly wireable on those switches.

You could buy the proprietary Ibanez switch (called an OTAX switch), but JohnH did come up with a scheme to do this with a Superswitch:

Progressive coil switching



And, as a bonus, with your On-On-On switch, this can be set up to give a lot more than just coil cuts- it can do series/parallel as well.

So, if you get a Superswitch, we've got this covered. Otherwise, to use the standard Strat-type switch means scaling back your wants. If you didn't want to split the middle pup at 2 and 4, then the std switch could be used in several different ways, depending on whst you wanted.

[sumgai]

errrr, krade?


That EP1108 switch has three positions... what did you intend to do with the remaining position? Having only two of the three possible positions taken care of, there's room for much more mayhem inside your axe.


Just sayin, ya know....




sumgai

[asmith]

Krade,

What do you mean by:

EP1108 "off"
Position 2: Bridge/middle(split)

?

Is that the same as:

Position 2: Split Bridge (only one coil active) /middle

?

Also, the 'Area 67' is a "stacked" humbucker. The bottom coil doesn't pick up any string vibrations - as far as I can tell - only noise. But you say you've got a four-wire version of this.

EDIT #2: On further digging, DiMarzio himself lists it as four-wire.

Cynical One's post here gives us a good indication of how these pickups work. The most advice I can get from that though is: "splitting noiseless single coils is not worthwhile."

What might be worthwhile is testing the difference in sound between a parallel and a series set up for these single coils. It depends on the tone you're looking for. I would imagine that 'series' doesn't do all that much but add resistance to the coil, which will 'dull' the tone - but if the second coil has significantly less resistance than the main one, that would also be a problem. It's worth a warming of that soldering iron.

Also, using the DPDT On/On/On as a selector between two modes and off may be possible. Further investigation required.

Cheers

[krade23]

Hi there!

Thanks for all the quick answers; I just had a long, and very explaining conversation with dimarzio
They are rather helpful, and so are you; and luckily you guys agree with dimarzio!

As for the issue with the 3-way On/on/on switch; yeah i know 1 will be off, there are 2 reasons for this; if one was off; wouldn't this be a killswitch? Secondly; i couldn't come up with anything else to use for the last, as i've never used anything else on my other guitar. Do you guys have any ideas?

Futhermore; where should the switch be placed?
Pickups - ? - volume pot - ? - tone pot - ? - output jack. Which of the "?" places?

Also; if anybody else need a diagram for either the SV5470 or a diagram for this kind of wiring here they are; but the diagram I got from dimarzio is for a push/pull, not a switch. But it's kind of the same thing; right?

Krade23

[newey]

If we're off of the idea of splitting the middle pickup, then the regular Strat switch will work fine, as shown in the first DM digram linked to above. (The second diagram shows the same thing with the OTAX switch.)

A Push/Pull pot is just an ordinary potentiometer with a double-pole double-throw (DPDT) On-On switch tacked onto its rear end. You can substitute any DPDT On-On switch.

Now, for your DPDT On-On-On switch, and to get the off position (call it a killswitch if you must), a bit of reworking of that part of the diagram may be needed.

[krade23]

Now that you mention it, it's actually wierd that the middle pickup isn't split according to the diagram with the strat switch, but that's what Dimarzio mailed me :/ wierd.

About the DPDT; if dimarzio and I quote:
Q: "So first of, I should buy some capacitors, and how do i deal with the difference between the push/pull on the picture, and the miniswitch i've got?"
A: "A DPDT miniswitch can be wired identically to the push/pull switch shown in the diagram. Their functions are identical."
Wrote this, what the **** should i do?

[newey]

After taking a look at this, I don't see how to get an "off" setting and still have the coil cuts on both pickups. Maybe (hopefully) someone wiser will be along who can make that happen, but I just don't see how.

We can, however, use an On-On-On switch to select either of the two coils SCs for one of the two pickups.

[krade23]

So it's not possibly to just select "singlecoil-mode" with the singlecoils, so I don't have to switch all the time?

[newey]

I can only see how to get:

coil cut / coil cut / full HB.

You'd probably be better off with a simple on-on switch, it would eliminate the duplicate coil cut setting.

It is also possible to cut the opposite coils from the neck and bridge, to maximize hum-cancelling, and the middle position can be wired to give a coil cut on either the neck or bridge alone, with the other pickup at full HB. But that wouldn't be much of an advantage, it's still essentially a duplicate position.

[krade23]

I see. But I'll have to go with the diagram the Dimarzio guy sent me. Because I can blame him and him being wrong, and then dimarzio must pay I can't do anything if i screw up with the golden advises you gave me :/

But it still would be nice to know where to put the 3-way switch... Should it be before the volume or after the tone?

[newey]

But it still would be nice to know where to put the 3-way switch... Should it be before the volume or after the tone?

Neither. It is wired as a module off of the "B Pole" of the 5-way switch.

Look again at the DM diagram (the first one you linked to).

Let's number the 5-way lugs as "Pole A" (to the left side of the diagram) and "Pole B" (to the right).

The lugs, left to right, thus are:

A1-A2-A3-AC BC-B1-B2-B3

Where the "c" terminals represent the common connections.

The DM diagram shows the "Series Junction" (the black and white wires connected together) going to B1 and B3, respectively. From B1 and B3, wires go to the DPDT switch. That's what I mean when I say that it's wired "off of" the 5-way switch.

Hope that helps-

[krade23]

So the switch is in some for "itself" and then it's connected "back" to the toneknob?

[newey]

So the switch is in some for "itself" and then it's connected "back" to the toneknob?

It is not connected to the "toneknob" at all. The ground connection (to short the series junctions) is grounded to the side of the tone pot, but the switch doesn't make any connection to the tone pot itself.

The side of the tone pot is just the handiest place to ground the switch, since the pot is right there and is already grounded. But it doesn't have to be that way, you could run a ground wire from the switch to any other point that's grounded. Ground is ground, by definition.

The tone pot is only connected (via its center connection, called the "wiper") to the hot lead off of the volume pot, and is then connected through the tone capacitor to ground. It is not connected to the coil cut switch.

Understand, a P/P pot is just an ordinary pot with a switch physically attached to it; there is no electrical connection between the switch and the pot (unless one wires them together as part of a given wiring scheme). The P/P pot is two separate components sharing a single housing- but that's all they share.

[ashcatlt]

What I hear is that you want the progressive splitting on the 5-way, and would also like to have individual coil cuts for each of the outside (B and N) pickups. You wouldn't mind if the split switches also act as "kill" switches, by which I'm assuming you mean they kill the entire guitar. The split switches are DPDT on-on-on. If this is correct then I'll try to explain, since I'm (still) too lazy to install graphics software.

The 5-way is wired exactly like the DM scheme. The "series connection" from each pickup (also) goes to its respective coil cut switch at the upper left hand lug*. Ground goes to both middle lugs. The tip of the jack goes to the lower right. Each of these switches will now do SC-HB-Kill. You can rotate the switch on the pickguard so that it makes sense to you.



* This is if you're looking at the switch like the P/P in the DM scheme. It also assumes that I correctly recall how a DPDT on-on-on works. We want ground on the commons and the other wires on the lugs to which these do not connect in the middle position.

[newey]

ash-

That's all right and good, but he's trying to coil cut both pickups with a single switch (DPDT on-on-on) and also have an off position. That's what I was unable to figure out. Separate switches for each pickup does solve the problem.

[ashcatlt]

Ah! OK. Where'd I get the second switch from?

Well then we need on on-off-on, or four poles.

[krade23]

Hi there,

Sorry for the slow reply but i've been swamped.
Anyway, here's what I did; I Took the wiring diagram that Dimarzio sent me, and instead of changing the push/pull knob, I just didn't wire it. Instead I wired the diagram which comes with the pickups (about coil-swicting), so here's what it looks like:



Also; the miniswitch now has the following settings;
Humbucker
Singlecoil
Singlecoil

Thanks for the help If i can be with any assistance in here, just ask

- Strømsholt