|
|
Post by newey on Dec 4, 2011 20:45:32 GMT -5
Guitar Electronics will sell one a 4P3T On-On-On toggle switch at $27 USD a pop (ouch!). Note the middle position pinout diagram.  Or one can buy a Kent Armstrong Brian May switch, a 4P3T On-On/Off-On:  The KA switches can be had for about $15, so more economical. Now, the question is, using either of these switches, can a "Super Phase Switch" be wired so as to give: 1) In Phase (IP) 2) Half Out-Of-Phase (HOOP, through a 0.01µf cap) 3) Out-Of-Phase (OOP) (Order of selection is unimportant.) I looked at this for about an hour last night and couldn't make it go. I think it ought to go OK, after all, there's 4 poles to work with. Maybe I'm just not seeing an obvious solution. So, I'm throwing it out to the membership as a challenge. Can this be done, with one or the other of those switches? Or did I spend an hour looking at it unsuccessfully because it's not possible? No prize for answering other than a karma point (heck, I'll give 2 to the first correct answer). If you want a real prize prize, go play the trivia quiz . . .
|
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Dec 4, 2011 21:00:47 GMT -5
newey, Since you didn't link the image to anything, I haven't gone looking for any better images of the switch, but.... Those terminals look to me like they're made for mounting directly to a circuit board - there's not much 'meat', at least inso far as I can detect..... Other than that, I'd tend to think that what you ask can be done, but I'd need to look closer before committing to that answer.  sumgai |
|
|
|
Post by newey on Dec 4, 2011 21:46:51 GMT -5
The link is embedded at the beginning. According to the Guitar Electronics site, it's a 1 cm switch body with a 7/16" threaded collar, so it seems to be a fairly sizable switch.
|
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Dec 4, 2011 22:23:24 GMT -5
Hi newey - can you describe some more of what HOOP is? is it a series or a parallel combination of coils? - series oop with one coil bypassed by a cap is quite good, or is it cap in series with one coil and that all in parallel wit hthe other coil?
J
|
|
|
|
Post by cynical1 on Dec 4, 2011 22:56:56 GMT -5
Digi-Key has a C & K 4PDT On-On-On switch for $17.97. Mouser sells the same switch for $15.33  7411SYZQEWith 2, 5, 8 and 11 as commons, the switching follows: 2-1,5-4,8-7,11-10 2-3,5-4,8-9,11-10 2-3,5-6,8-9,11-12 Happy Trails Cynical One |
|
|
|
Post by newey on Dec 4, 2011 23:00:02 GMT -5
Good point, I was meaning two in series with one coil bypassed by a cap, but I should have been more specific.
The "full" OOP would be series as well, I would think.
I have the two HBs on the pumpkin wired permanently OOP, a la Peter Green, but I was thinking to make it switchable and do series OOP as well. Obviously, more switching than just this is involved; I was thinking it would just be a module to go after the one pickup.
|
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Dec 4, 2011 23:25:40 GMT -5
I maked dis wun:  It's meant to be in parallel with another coil or pickup. It wouldn't be hard to make one that goes in series. Edit: This one for series. In the "Half out of phase", a cap is in parallel with the pickup or coil controlled by this switch.  |
|
|
|
Post by newey on Dec 5, 2011 0:11:14 GMT -5
I think reTread's got it, at least for the C&K switch. Jury's still out on the KA switch . . .
Running the "X" down the middle lugs was what I didn't see, I was trying one or the other side, it never occurred to me to use the center lugs. D'oh!
ANyways, some karma coming at ya!
|
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Dec 5, 2011 0:32:52 GMT -5
ANyways, some karma coming at ya! Karma's nice and all, but I was hoping for a loan, instead...  btw, I don't think the KA switch will do the job. But the one c1 posted will. It has a slightly different layout on the lugs compared to the one I drew the diagram for. But it can be made to work. |
|
|
|
Post by newey on Dec 5, 2011 6:17:25 GMT -5
Sorry, but I have entered into a Letter of Mutual Understanding with the Bank. For their part, the Bank will no longer rewire guitars . . . |
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Dec 5, 2011 19:42:14 GMT -5
Run! Kyle's multiplying - GET AWAY, NOW!! As it happens, this so-called 'super' toggle switch is nothing more than a rearrangement of what we usually find at most parts houses. Assuming that all four poles are left intact*, there really are only three possible ways for the center throw of a 4PDT (on-on-on) to be laid out: down-up-down-up; down-down-up-up; or down-up-up-down I suppose that last one could be inverted for a fourth layout, up-down-down-up, but that'd be gilding the lilly. Stil, this is the layout that was formerly missing from the triumvirate of switches available for purchase. Not that I missed it or anything.....  HTH sumgai * The Kent Armstrong switch, as shown by newey above, has been neutered on the first two poles, so it would look like: x-x-down-up Apparently this is necessary for whatever it is that KA does, but as the infamous Beta Particle Bombarder has been known to note: The First Law of GuitarNutz is: Leave no lug unsoldered! I rest my case.  |
|
|
|
Post by KIIMH on Dec 5, 2011 20:42:05 GMT -5
taht is teh firs tihg i understnad on tihs bord. Yuo mabey be my frend? Loev, kYel |
|
|
|
Post by cynical1 on Dec 5, 2011 21:06:33 GMT -5
btw, I don't think the KA switch will do the job. But the one c1 posted will. It has a slightly different layout on the lugs compared to the one I drew the diagram for. But it can be made to work. Well, here's the layout for the C & K switch I posted.  Just for reference. Happy Trails Cynical One |
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Dec 6, 2011 4:35:31 GMT -5
taht is teh firs tihg i understnad on tihs bord. Yuo mabey be my frend? Loev, kYel |
|
|
|
Post by ourclarioncall on Jul 31, 2020 8:35:34 GMT -5
newey“Now, the question is, using either of these switches, can a "Super Phase Switch" be wired so as to give: 1) In Phase (IP) 2) Half Out-Of-Phase (HOOP, through a 0.01µf cap) 3) Out-Of-Phase (OOP)“ love the idea, did you ever take the plunge and build it ? im just having a look at the K.Armstrong switch today but couldn’t find much about it , other than that he designed it to combine Brian Mays two switches per pickup into one switch are there any more of these quirky switches on the market ? the only other one i know of is the one DiMarzio makes , 4p3t on-on-on that could be used for Aroberts/JohnH/YogiB Brian may Variations
|
|
|
|
Post by ourclarioncall on Aug 3, 2020 14:01:27 GMT -5
reTrEaD bin a few years since you did this one 🙂 im struggling to understand how the middle setting (hoop) works on the series switch. I’ve redrawn it’s below, hopefully faithfully. I think I’m right in saying that series caps are wired in parallel , so both signal and return wires of the pickup have to be touching one leg of the cap each ? I can see where the return meets the cap but not the signal. i added in red lines for clarity 
|
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Aug 3, 2020 17:01:34 GMT -5
im struggling to understand how the middle setting (hoop) works on the series switch. That's probably because for the series switch, the middle setting is out-of-phase, not hoop. |
|
|
|
Post by ourclarioncall on Aug 3, 2020 17:13:51 GMT -5
im struggling to understand how the middle setting (hoop) works on the series switch. That's probably because for the series switch, the middle setting is out-of-phase, not hoop. Argh lol, silly me, sigh, ☺️ I was too focused on the wiring and assumed the setting were the same as parallel . Thanks for clarifying that for me 👍 |
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Aug 3, 2020 17:14:43 GMT -5
No worries.  |
|
|
|
Post by ourclarioncall on Aug 3, 2020 18:55:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Aug 3, 2020 20:38:14 GMT -5
That will have the cap in parallel with the pickup when it's in-phase. Is that what you were going for?
|
|
|
|
Post by ourclarioncall on Aug 3, 2020 20:48:26 GMT -5
That will have the cap in parallel with the pickup when it's in-phase. Is that what you were going for? Yes, sorry , I should have communicated that I purposely changed the cap from being out of phase to in phase So, I don’t actually have HOOP on this, but my intention is to have two of these switches in line in a Brian may type circuit. When it’s on series mode I can use the series “super phase switch “ and when it’s in parallel mode I can use the parallel “super phase switch” The reason I did it like this so I can turn both the series and parallel “super phase switches” on at the same time . One would be set to CAP and the other I would set to OOP, And these together will give me HOOP. I hope that makes sense |
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Aug 3, 2020 22:06:20 GMT -5
Is this intended to become a part of the 'EVERYTHING' scheme? If so, id like to propose an 'intervention' For these cap bypass / cap series Hoop Shoop etc, instead of thinking about having them on every pickup ie x3, do it once and apply to the 'Off' group in that scheme, with just one more switch. This will actually get you all the options for this that you might want. eg, you could have two main 'on' selections in parallel, use the 'off' group to add another in parallel and feed it through a cap. Or do series and series but the 'off' ones are bypassed by a cap. Or two in series half out of phase with another in parallel. All your phase options are still there mixed into it all. And you can quickly get back to a simple series or parallel just by setting the on-on-on to middle. Given that the scheme is already beyond reason, its not really a lot more to add, and it would then be everything in at least 4 dimensions; pickup selection, series/parallel, phase and half-phase. (But containment is lost, just have to hope that your guitar is one of the 99% that recover. ) |
|
|
|
Post by ourclarioncall on Aug 4, 2020 6:37:53 GMT -5
reTrEaDi never asked, does it actually work? i tried to do a parallel version too but couldn’t figure one out yet cheers
|
|
|
|
Post by ourclarioncall on Aug 4, 2020 6:39:17 GMT -5
JohnHyeah, an evolution of the everything design il reply properly over on the other thread cheers
|
|
