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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 23, 2012 19:32:29 GMT -5
Ok so as most know I'm about to start my venture into luthiery bliss, and I got to thinking (don't start with the head ache jokes just yet) if I should just stick with what I know and just use namebrand pups or take the extra time and delve into the realm of making my own?
What benifits would come about from diy pup building?
What's the real difference "TONALLY" between plastic bobbins, fiber bobbins, and wood bobbins?
Tonality of magnets, Alnico 2? Alnico 5? Ceramic?
Poles vs. Blades?
Differences in poles, Wide poles? Standard poles?
To cover or not to cover?
What difficulties will I encounter in building my own pups?
Price wise is it really beifitial/profitable?
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Post by newey on May 23, 2012 21:13:19 GMT -5
Let's go in reverse order:
Probably not. A factory in Asia can churn out a much more consistent product. It will last longer, and probably sound at least as good as whatever you could make, for a lot less than you can make it.
Now, you just might get lucky, and your hand-twisted one-off custom wound pickup just might have all the magical mojo of one of the best custom-wound offerings from one of the boutique winders who charges $300 a pop for his pups.
But the odds say there's a learning curve, and serendipity doesn't often happen outside of the movies.
The satisfaction of DIY, and the fun of experimenting with something new. But be prepared to do several to get the hang of the process, and don't expect tonal miracles from the first one.
I've never wound a pickup, but I do plan to try it someday- but as a learning experience, not with the expectation that I'm going to love what I make over whatever commercially-built model is already in the guitar.
The guys who do the expensive ones have been winding pickups for years, and know all the ins and outs. There's a reason they can charge $300 and still sell pickups . . .
None that I can imagine. All those materials are non-magnetic, and therefore won't alter either the strength or shape of the pickup's field.
Now, smaller or larger bobbins can make a difference, since the windings around differnt sized bobbins will necessarily be different. But that's size, not materials.
These are all extremely subjective areas. Listen to different types of pickups and see what you like.
Personally, I can't stand ceramic magnets on SCs, they sound brittle and harsh to me. But they have their fans, some like that sound over Alnico.
I don't know if I could tell the difference between Alnico 5 or 2 in a blind test. Perhaps, but it would be hard to control for all the variables.
The wire is very thin and difficult to work with. Break it, and you either have to start over, or splice it, with the risk that the splice may adversely affect the sound and/or may fail in time.
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Post by yakkmeister on May 23, 2012 23:38:08 GMT -5
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 24, 2012 4:45:20 GMT -5
Thanks guys I've been contemplating trying this for a little while now. I've been eying those pup kits at stewmac and was thinking about tryin em. I tend to like the high gain high output pups, I found an article somewhere earlier today that stated that its not only the coils that can produce higher gain by adding more coils, but that if you increase the magnet strength it will also produce that high gain a lot of us want with out the drop in tone you get by increasing the amount of coils.
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Post by yakkmeister on May 24, 2012 4:57:29 GMT -5
Every difference in a pickup will cascade. If you increase the flux you will increase the output but I am pretty sure you'll always get some loss of frequency response - more flux means more pull on the strings, for starters.
Nothing is cut and dry.
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Post by newey on May 24, 2012 6:04:06 GMT -5
Yakky is right. There is no free lunch; if there were, every pickup manufacturer would be doing just that.
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 24, 2012 14:06:11 GMT -5
Just placed a call to stewmacs tech center now I'm just waiting on a call back. I got to thinking and since gfs mean 90's are out of stock and don't offer exactly what I want any way if it wouldn't be better to make my own version the way I want it to be. Oh and. Alnico 5 is warmer with less high end were as alnico 2 has more high end and brightness. Ceramics and neodiums are still a mystery to me though.
Quoted from stewmacs website:
Choose Alnico 5 or Alnico 2 magnets:
Alnico 2 magnets give a warmer tone and low end response with smooth, singing highs. Many builders use them in the bridge pickups of solidbodies.
Alnico 5 produces a brighter tone with a tighter low end and stinging highs. They're great for neck position pickups, to help keep the tone clear without getting muddy.
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 24, 2012 14:12:42 GMT -5
Ok just got the call ba from stewmac and according to them it can be done with their parts kits but I would have to drill the holes in the base plate for that to work but it could be done.
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 24, 2012 20:01:22 GMT -5
So on a pick up coil which end is which? As in which end Of the wire is positive and which is negative and where do I connect that ground wire to?
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Post by cynical1 on May 24, 2012 20:32:01 GMT -5
RTFM
HTC1
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 24, 2012 22:53:03 GMT -5
Now for my next question. Will spray painting a chrome pup cover affect the magnetic field of the pickup itself?
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Post by yakkmeister on May 25, 2012 4:11:48 GMT -5
No. But you'll find it really hard to get anything to stick to the chrome.
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 25, 2012 11:03:46 GMT -5
No. But you'll find it really hard to get anything to stick to the chrome. Well I do intend on removing the chrome first though, thanks for answering.
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 25, 2012 13:24:10 GMT -5
So how does single conductor wiring work inside a pickup if there's only one wire what gets connected to what? And who's on 1st! ;D
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Post by cynical1 on May 25, 2012 14:01:08 GMT -5
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Post by lpf3 on May 25, 2012 16:15:43 GMT -5
Here's a quote from the ad........ Nice problem to have, huh? -lpf3
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Post by reTrEaD on May 25, 2012 20:52:37 GMT -5
Sixty bucks for seventy pages. Nearly a dollar a page.
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 25, 2012 22:51:05 GMT -5
Yeah not not really worth a dollar a page if ya ask me anyone know were I can get free pdf files on the subject?
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Post by cynical1 on May 25, 2012 23:38:30 GMT -5
Google
HTC1
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 26, 2012 1:03:07 GMT -5
Tried google earlier but all I got was stuff for sale and the only free pdf I found was for acoustic piezo pickups. Maybe a more refined search would produce something of relavence though.
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Post by yakkmeister on May 26, 2012 6:45:14 GMT -5
I am pretty sure mentioning torrents is against the rules, so I won't do that.
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 26, 2012 10:30:35 GMT -5
So these diy piezo pups I keep seeing are they passive pups or what? Newey you got some experience with these on the stealth strat, battery or no battery? And does it only take one to pickup all 6 strings?
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Post by cynical1 on May 26, 2012 10:38:33 GMT -5
I am pretty sure mentioning torrents is against the rules, so I won't do that. [WARNING SHOT] Well, if the Rules include anything that keeps all lawyers members here and not plaintiffs...then yeah...mentioning torrents specifically will have significant consequences. [/WARNING SHOT] If you're aware of what a torrent is, then use them as your conscience dictates. If you don't know what they are, they are a specific device for sharing files, which may, or may not, contain copyrighted or pirated software, music, video, etc... So, please don't put direct torrent links up in this forum. Happy Trails Cynical One
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 26, 2012 11:57:56 GMT -5
Have bank card will buy if needed but I prefer ebooks. Easier to carry around to read in spare time.
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Post by newey on May 28, 2012 7:41:32 GMT -5
sbg- The Stealth Strat is still a work in progress, so I can't really tell you much just yet. But a piezo is a device to give a (theoretically) acoustic-type sound; not sure that's really what you're looking for. JohnH has a tutorial about adding one to a Strat that has a lot of info hereHe used a piezo element out of a buzzer. I ordered mine online, but it's essentially the same. A piezo element operates differently than a magnetic pickup; it generates a current in response to compression of the piezo. In a guitar, the vibrations through the body act to compress the element. It isn't sensing the strings in the way a magnetic pickup does.
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 28, 2012 13:06:21 GMT -5
I got an idea the other day for a piezo pickup guitar using a semi hollow lp template and in stead of routing out the humbucker cavities completely just pre route them on the inner body and mount piezos on the under side of the top and install a strat style non trem bridge with those piezo ghost saddles and install a preamp in the control cavity with a 5 way rotary switch for selecting and combining the piezos. Haven't had time to check if its been done before yet though
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 28, 2012 14:15:05 GMT -5
So as far as a pickup winder instead of forking out near $400 for one I'm working on building one out of an rc car that's been setting around awhile with no remote control. I haven't. Cracked the shell open yet to have a look at what I've got to work with. But what I had in mind was building a control box with a on/off toggle switch and a 500k pot to regulate the voltage. Check out the revolt box at beavis audio for specifics on that. And setting up the motor and some gears to a shaft with a magnetic baseplate to hold the pups. I will be running two 9.6v rechargable rc batteries in series for a total of 19.2v "that's more than a standard battery powered hand drill folks, which is 18v". Still haven't figured out the digital counter yet though.
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Post by lpf3 on May 28, 2012 16:17:24 GMT -5
Check out this video thread about making a pickup winder. I think there are 9 parts but it's all very detailed & he has a cool way of setting up the counter.................
There are a lot of vids about making a counter, some use a computer mouse, others use a simple calculator- all easily DIY.
enjoy,
-lpf3
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Post by sbgodofmetal on May 29, 2012 17:29:58 GMT -5
Found this site that answered quite afew qyestions I had and some I didn't think to ask. Thought id post it incase others like me who want to try treir hands at building their own pickups could have a how to referance. galileo.spaceports.com/~fishbake/buck/humbuck.htmIt goes step by step showing how to make a humbucking pickup.
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Post by yakkmeister on May 30, 2012 2:29:23 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing!
I have a couple of issues though. First up, this guy has terrible spelling and grammar. This instantly makes me mistrust a source.
He's got some cool ideas but his terminology is off. "Saturating" is not the correct term for filling the coil with wax - "potting" is. "potting" is not the correct term for filling a cover/pickup assembly with wax - "pointless" is.
The tall & slim Vs short & fat argument is mostly valid, in fact, it would seem that he's mostly valid most of the time. It's certainly not that simple. Ceramic magnets are capable of greater magnetic strength, but it's not a given; they may be weaker. The method used to wind the coils has a significant impact; scatter-wound seems to be the flavour of the month. All things equal, a scatter-wound pickup will sound different (though, probably, not a great deal) than a straight wound pickup. He has addressed the wire thickness and, as far as I know, he's probably bang-on with that.
End of the line; Just do it. See what you come up with. Experiment. Don't take what you read online as gospel.
Have fun, Dood!
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