OK, so it's butt-ugly!

[newey]

Our neighborhood stages a mass garage sale each June, and my wife and her sisters went out yesterday to do as women are wont to do in the presence of bargains.

I stayed home to get some work done and to avoid what promised to be a hen party. After a couple of hours, the wife calls to tell me a guy has an acoustic guitar for sale. She says it's missing some parts and has some hacks and dings in it. But the guy only wants $15 for it.

Since my wife doesn't know squat about guitars, I have her put the guy on the phone. No bridge saddle, no nut, no tuners, he tells me, but he assures me that the neck is straight and the frets OK. I tried to knock him down to $10, but he's firm at $15.

So I tell the wife to pay the man, and she brings it home.

The good news is, it's a Fender and it's Korean-made, which I understand to be preferable to the Chinese ones (or wherever they're making them nowadays). And the neck and frets do look OK.

And I won't have to invest anything to get it playable, as I have a bunch of tuners in the parts bin, as well as a nut and a bridge saddle. Not sure the nut will fit this, so I might have to spring for a new nut.

I figure, if I get it playable with minimal effort, I can use it for a beater acoustic, for camping and such, with no worries about further damage. I have a Yamaha F series acoustic which is in mint shape, So I can keep that one out of harm's way and use this one for knocking around.

The bad news is, it's butt ugly, worse than the wife's description of a "few dings".

As can be seen in this photo, the bridge saddle I have (which is out of my Yamaha, I replaced the stock Yamaha one with a compensated one) doesn't fit. It doesn't quite slide into place. So I'll have to do some fitment there.



This is not just cosmetic, but is through the veneer. I'm thinking that I should do something to fix this, short of a complete refinish, but just to make it look OK from 10 feet and to keep moisture, etc. out so it doesn't get any worse.



I can't figure how this hole got there unless someone viciously assaulted the poor axe with a flat-head screwdriver or a wood chisel! I doubt that anything worthwhile can be done to fix that, so I'm assuming it's best to just leave it be.



There appears to be a broken-off string peg in the 6th string hole, which has a tiny piece of string sticking out. I haven't tried to yank it with a needlenose yet, but that's step one. If that doesn't work, then I guess I'll have to try to drill it out.



Ideas for a "down and dirty" repair?

[JohnH]

I like it! It should do up well. My thoughts are:

If you feel like filling that hole, I think you could get away with whatever cosmetic fix you prefer, since its right near the edge and neck, a very stiff point where resonance of the top is not really significant.

How about slinging an old mag pup across the sound hole?

BTW - when we moved to our current property, there was not one but two beater acoustics lying around in one of the sheds. I thought I had found my dream hobo guitar. Unfortunately, they are both utterly unplayable. I usually lend one to Dave, the other (better) guitarist in our band when he comes round, to make me sound good.

John

[sumgai]

newey,

Those peg holes are tapered - if you try to drill out the stub, you'll likely hit the string, forcing the bit off-center. At that point, your repair job will have expanded beyond your initial expectations.

Better would be to work from inside the body and try to push out the stub. A clamp works best here, and there are bridge clamps made for gluing the bridge in place, they'll also work for this job. But a standard wood clamp may have long-enough jaws to do the job too, you'll have to experiment on that score.

HTH





sumgai

[newey]

Yeah, I got the saddle fitted easy enough. just a bit of sanding did the trick. But that peg isn't budging with a pliers, so I'll have to try sg's idea with the clamp.

I realized the taper issue, I was thinking to just use a tiny drill bit and hope to dismember the remains of the peg enough that it just fell inward in chunks. But you're right about the string end, it is likely to screw things up.

[sbgodofmetal]

I have to second sg's post on the clamp idea. I get the stewmac trade secrets emails every so often and I believe I got one on that very same problem ill have to do some digging to find it though, it might be worth looking it up on their site though might be quicker too!! That was about a year or so ago I got that particular email. Another idea would be (if you have one) use a fret hammer and tap it out.

[reTrEaD]

Drilling would be okay, but it would have to be a VERY small drill. I think your bridge pins are slotted, to accommodate the string. So chances are it's almost near the center of the pin.

Pulling on the string is a bad idea. That tends to lock the pin tighter. If you can, push down a little on the string. Hopefully it will move downward and the ball end will have some clearance from the bottom of the bridge.

Take a small wooden block and try to press upward on the bottom end of the pin. You might be able to loosen it with pressure, rather than hammering.

This drawing is for a bridge that has slots, but the pin does not. But it still gives you a reasonable idea of what goes on.

[JohnH]

Sort of drilling, it seems like either the remnants of the string need to be pulled down, or the remains of the pin pushed up, both from inside. Is there any lubricant that would help?, or would this swell the wood?

[newey]

Pulling on the string is a bad idea. That tends to lock the pin tighter.

D'oh! ( 8^ (])

What was I thinking?

Pressing it out from inside doesn't seem to be working, I can't get enough leverage on it. I may have to spring for a clamp, it'd be handy to have a few of those for lots of reasons anyway.

And the nut I have is too small, so I'll have to get a new nut.

On the positive side, I got the saddle fitting well and I installed a set of Gotoh tuners. The only set of 3 X 3 tuners I had in the parts bin had one with stripped threads, so I had to use a set of 6-in-line ones.

This of course meant flipping the 3 on the right-hand side of the headstock upside down, so they turned the correct way, which in turn means that the left-side tuning keys are offset from the right-sided ones. So, it looks a bit funky but ought to work OK.

And, I cleaned an amazing amount of dirt off of the body, and off of the fretboard as well. The white marks on the back, visible in the second picture above, are now completely gone. And much of the mung on the front and from the fretboard is gone.

I used a product called Goof Off™, which is a petroleum-based solvent designed to safely remove glue residue due to price tags, stickers and the like. I figured this almost has to have a poly finish, so it should be OK to use, and it was. Worked like a charm.

I dirtied several paper towels cleaning everything off with the Goof Off, then I hit it with some Pledge, fretboard and all, and buffed away at it. Other than the holes and hacks, it looks pretty good now.

I had the thought of a soundhole single coil as well, I have those Entwhistle noiseless SCs; they were too deep to fit in my Yamaha EG112C. One of those would work well here.

As for fixing the (presumed) screwdriver hole on the front, I'm thinking a Deadhead sticker or some such would cover it appropriately.

Still looking for a quick fix for the backside damage, though.

[newey]

Success! I bought myself a bit of play by pushing down on the end of the string, as pɐƎᴚ⊥ǝᴚ had suggested. But then the string end was flush with the piece of the pin.

However, I found a very slender flat punch in the toolbox, and that worked to slide the string end downward even more. I was then able to push the pin upward a bit from the inside, just using my fingers. Got about 1/8" the first time.

Once more with the punch, moved the string downward a bit more, and pushed the pin up a bit more. On the third go-round, the string dropped all the way through and the pin pushed up easily.

So, all I need now is a nut and I'll be good to go. Thanks for all the suggestions and help!

[reTrEaD]

Glad to hear you got the pin out. Don't beat yourself up about pulling on the string. It's a normal reaction, until you look at the way things work.

As far as the missing wood on the back, I'd probably mask it close to the edge of what's still there, then use auto body filler or something similarly brutal. Maybe someone else can come up with something with more finesse. idk.

[yakkmeister]

The wood filler stuff I used on my amp cabinet is pretty close to car bog. Seems like a legit idea to me. You could just go for a non-granular epoxy (if that's what it is...) like Araldite if you're not too worried about sanding it smooth or whatever

[cynical1]

How you fix these errant little mishaps is directly related to how good you want it to look like when you're done.

Easy way or hard way...how much effort do you want to put into making it look "restored" versus "repaired".

HTC1

[newey]

Easy way- it's a well-used and abused Asian Fender that cost me $15, not a vintage anything. It'll be banged around in the future if I have anything to do with it.

My concern is to keep the back from delaminating further, and if it looks better from 10 feet away that's good enough for this thing.

[newey]

I installed a nut and strung 'er up. But it has one playability issue, the first fret buzzes on the 6th string pretty badly.

If I capo it up to the 2nd fret, it's fine. Or, if I just play the 5 upper strings, it's fine.

I tried raising the bridge saddle piece a little bit, but that didn't help. I suspect the nut needs to be shimmed up a bit. The action is pretty low overall.

It might also get better with heavier-gauge strings, as I just strung it up with a set I had available, which were light gauge electric strings.

But other than the buzz, it plays well and sounds good.

[reTrEaD]

Not sure about the description of "first fret buzz". Does that mean it buzzes when fretted there? Or does that mean the string buzzes against the first fret when the string is open?

If the string plays normally open, but buzzes when fretted at the first fret, it could mean the first fret is worn down. Or it could mean the second fret is standing a bit proud.

[4real]

That guitar has hard life...I got a few dings in my old epiphone so will be interested to know how you deal with yours...not that bad though I have to say! You are right to want to protect it, at least to force some glue in under those laminations.

It is hard to know about the fret buzzing, but if you have put light strings on it, you may find a heavier set of strings in the bass increases the tension enough to raise the action enough. Either way, best to adjust things knowing the problems with the intended gauge. I tend towards light strings on my acoustics 10-50 though now I am playing with tuning down, might go heavier to do that better on that guitar.

Being a fender, may I ask, is that a bolt on neck? Hard to tell from those pics and not seen that type so perhaps not. My old jap epiphone guitar is a bolt on and really love it and it certainly has been a feature I really like on it and wonder why more makers have not experimented with such things.

Good project and the right price...

[newey]

Or does that mean the string buzzes against the first fret when the string is open?

That's what I meant. But it's only the 6th string that's the problem. If I took the 6th string off, Keith Richard style, it'd be fine. Odd.

I do still get a slight bit of a buzz fingering the 6th string at the first fret. Capoed up to the 2nd, all is well.

Being a fender, may I ask, is that a bolt on neck?

Nope, set neck. Although I didn't check the strings when I strung it up, it's one of those Ernie Ball "Hybrid" sets, so the 3rd is unwound and I believe the high E is a .09. But the low E is a .54, I think, or maybe .52, so not terribly light at that end.

[4real]

Thanks

I've heard some people have used super glue with a bit of 'filler' (perhaps talc) to build up an individual nut slot if that helps rather than shim the while thing up and file down. Tape the slot on the sides to stop the glue running out all over perhaps. Might be a stew mac thing on it, they love super glue.

.9s are a little too skinny, but then most say my preference for .10s on top is a little much but it matches the kind of electric strings I use but with a wound string.

I've been thinking of getting a junker acoustic for the car when I go down the beach or a drive...keep on practicing and all that.

[reTrEaD]

Jun 14, 2012 6:15:35 GMT -5 newey said:

That's what I meant. But it's only the 6th string that's the problem. If I took the 6th string off, Keith Richard style, it'd be fine. Odd.

I do still get a slight bit of a buzz fingering the 6th string at the first fret. Capoed up to the 2nd, all is well.

The symptoms indicate more than one problem on the 6th string side.

If the nut was too low, the buzz would occur with the string open, but go away when fretted at the first.

If the second fret was too high, it might buzz with the string open, but be much worse when fretted at the first.

Maybe the first and second frets have popped on the 6th string side, the second worse than the first?

Or the nutslot is too deep and the first fret is worn on the 6th string side.

Or the nutslot is too deep and the second fret has popped slightly on the 6th string side?


Maybe we should get Cyn to weigh in on this.

[newey]

4real suggested:

I've heard some people have used super glue with a bit of 'filler' (perhaps talc) to build up an individual nut slot if that helps rather than shim the while thing up and file down. Tape the slot on the sides to stop the glue running out all over perhaps. Might be a stew mac thing on it, they love super glue.

So, I gave that a try. I just loosened the 6th string enough to lift it out of the nut slot and off to the side. I used some tiny pieces of blue painter's tape, folded the edges over so that I didn't have a glued side towards the slot, and then taped over the folded pieces to hold them in place, one on each side of the nut.

I did not use any sort of filler, just pure methyl methacrylate cement. I put a drop in, let it set up for an hour, then added a second drop to build it up further. Dried it for another hour, then reslotted the string and tuned it up.

Works like a charm! The 6th string buzz is gone completely!

Now, however, I have noticed a very slight buzz on the A string. I hadn't noticed that before, probably because the buzz on the 6th string was so bad that it swamped out the slight buzz on the 5th.

So, I'll try the same treatment on the A string, and hopefully it'll be all good.

While the MMA cement is tough stuff, I supposed there is the chance that the fix won't last due to my not using any sort of filler. I thought that, ideally, one should use some of the same material as the nut (plastic in this case). But the MMA is tough to work with, it's runny and sets up quickly. I couldn't think of a good way to mix in a binder without making a sticky mess of things, and I couldn't think of a good way to apply it once mixed. Using the dropper on the bottle seemed neater and easier.

I figured that, if it didn't work, I would probably need to go back to the drawing board and replace the nut. But so far so good!

[yakkmeister]

Awesome!
I have never heard of that kind of glue before ... but if it's reasonably hard without being brittle, it should last a fair whack of time...

[newey]

It's sold under various names- Crazy Glue™ and Super Glue™

[yakkmeister]

Over here, our super-glue is ethyl- or methyl cyanoacrylate (depending on band). It's too brittle to make a good nut filler, in my estimation, due to it's low sheer strength ...

[cynical1]

Mixed with shavings or sawdust from an old nut, plastic is preferable over bone and a thick gel is better then the more viscous stuff, the Crazy Glue trick can work as a quick fix...as in "I've got a gig tonight, I can't wait for a new nut".

It's a poor substitute to a replacement as every time you tune the string in question you cut a bit more out of the slot...the heavier strings cutting through the patch quicker then the lighter strings.

HTC1

[4real]

Well, did I mention filler...I think I did . Still, a result and if it wears down again, then a better method.

One thing I'd always meant to try was an epoxy (less brittle than superglue, the quick set would be ok if you are quick!) mixed with graphite powder. Not so much for this kind of thing, and it is black, but for something like a custom bridge saddle perhaps one could make one's own imitation 'grahtech' type of thing.

A new nut is a good thing and not that expensive, but you have to consider the amount of time filing it a way (filed right through a good pair of jeans while watching TV with the file there and rubbing the bottom of a graphtech nut and fitting and checking and over again so it was just right on my LP project).

In this case and application, I think it should be fine. I have a hot licks video where Albert Lee explained why he had wedged cardboard into the strings of one of his tele's...his light strings had cut through just a little too much apparently LOL.

Glad you got a result!