Wiring Help - HSH wiring with Blender/Split/Peizo

[mp70]

I am looking to see if anyone can some up with a wiring diagram for me for the following.

I am building a HSH partscaster with peizo (Fishman Powerchip) and I found a decent schematic:



It seems to have everything I want including a blender for the neck/bridge depending where the 5-way switch is.

What I need to do is include a Fishman Powerchip into the schematic with a selector switch for mag/both/peizo.

www.fishman.com/files/powerchip_user_guide.pdf

I was hoping to not make it look too unstock...

A couple of other scenario's may work:

1) Add another knob on the pickguard for the Fishman (not my favorite idea since it would get a bit crowded). Where could it really go anyway without getting in the way?

2) Remove the tone control entirely and add an on/off dip switch for the coil tap and put Fishman Powerchip in that hole. (My main axe doesn't have a tone control at all now anyway)

3) Remove the blend pot and just add an on/off dipswitch to engage the neck/bridge when in position 1 or 5. Keeping the Tone and putting the Fishman in the blender spot.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Mark

[newey]

Mark-

First, a couple of comments re: the mag schematic:

• The blend control will not be truly out of circuit at "10" unless you use a "no-load" pot. It may or may not make a noticeable difference in the sound, however.
  
  
• In general, I'm not sure how happy you will be with the operation of the blender, but I've never tried it like that (I mean rheostat wiring). I'm sure others will weigh in on that topic. Certainly, the blender pot should be a linear taper.
  
  
• Since the push/pull switch splits the HBs anyway, it is redundant to also have the HBs split by the 5-way in positions 2 and 4. I understand the idea that the switch is like a HSH in one position and a SSS in the other, but you could have 2 more tones available (NHB + M and BrHB + M) by eliminating the split wire from the 5-way switch.
  

As far as adding the Fishman system, you could use a concentric pot for the VOL control to avoid adding an extra pot. You will have to add a hole for the piezo/mag selector switch.

In fact, adding an extra pot may prove to present difficult fitment issues, especially since the Fishman system will add to the bulk of stuff in the cavity. To add a 4th pot to a regular Strat would probably require that all the other pots be swapped out for dime-sized mini-pots, at the very least, and even then there may be fitment issues.

If this is not a regular Strat, but is some sort of rear-routed type instead, then all bets are off.

If you wanted to avoid adding an extra switch, you could use two additional P/P pots, one to turn the mag pickups on/off and another to turn the piezo system on/off. But the switching is a bit clumsy, since you have to pull (or push) two P/Ps to get both on. And this would preclude using a concentric pot for the piezo volume control, since AFAIK there is no such thing as a concentric P/P pot.

EDIT: Another thought: If keeping a stock look (no extra holes) is important, it might be possible to use a P/P for the blender pot, where pulling the P/P out both turns the piezo system on and converts the blend pot to piezo volume as well. Not sure whether that would be doable or not. A second P/P on the volume could then turn the mag pups on/off, as suggested above.

As far as a wiring diagram, the Fishman instructions give you all the info needed to wire the system in. We can help with the piezo/mag switching once you firm up how you want to proceed with that.

[mp70]

Hey Newey!

Adding another pot is not really an option I like anyway. The Fishman preamp needs to be there to combine the mags and piezo as it is wired to it's own pot connected to the preamp circuit to control the peizo volume...



I would think replacing the blender with an engage switch for the neck/bridge depending what position the 5-way is in(1 or 5) would work. Then I would put the Fishman Preamp in the bottom tone spot instead of the blender.

I don't know if I can get away from not having the mag/both/peizo switch for the peizo, does that even exist for a pot??

Maybe adding that extra mini switch for the engaging of the neck/bridge would be an easier option...

This may also work if we can figure it out: www.mylespaul.com/forums/custom-shop/206074-installing-graphtech-ghost-system.html

The Strat body has a bathtub route for the pickups, but the cavity for the electronics would be a pretty tough fit for 4 pots...

I actually like the idea of the split happening automatically, but it certainly can be eliminated if need be... It could come in handy when playing in that I would probably want the SC sounds in 2 & 4 anyway.. but I have not heard alot of nHB +M or bHB+M clips to know if it would be a usable sound.....

I guess it would be more flexible..

Do they even make a blender on a push/pull??

I would just need to remember where the push pull is! LOL

Any other ideas would be welcome..

These are the pickups I will be using for the humbucker side:

Charliehorse Humbuckers: www.smitspickups.com/Limited_editions.htm



Wiring Diagrams for the humbuckers, to maybe figure out what spilt we can do:
www.smitspickups.com/wiringdiagram09.htm

The single coil will be this:

Bravo: www.smitspickups.com/stratpickups.htm
Thanks!

Mark

Aug 18, 2012 8:40:55 GMT -5 newey said:

Mark-

First, a couple of comments re: the mag schematic:

• The blend control will not be truly out of circuit at "10" unless you use a "no-load" pot. It may or may not make a noticeable difference in the sound, however.
  
  
• In general, I'm not sure how happy you will be with the operation of the blender, but I've never tried it like that (I mean rheostat wiring). I'm sure others will weigh in on that topic. Certainly, the blender pot should be a linear taper.
  
  
• Since the push/pull switch splits the HBs anyway, it is redundant to also have the HBs split by the 5-way in positions 2 and 4. I understand the idea that the switch is like a HSH in one position and a SSS in the other, but you could have 2 more tones available (NHB + M and BrHB + M) by eliminating the split wire from the 5-way switch.
  

As far as adding the Fishman system, you could use a concentric pot for the VOL control to avoid adding an extra pot. You will have to add a hole for the piezo/mag selector switch.

In fact, adding an extra pot may prove to present difficult fitment issues, especially since the Fishman system will add to the bulk of stuff in the cavity. To add a 4th pot to a regular Strat would probably require that all the other pots be swapped out for dime-sized mini-pots, at the very least, and even then there may be fitment issues.

If this is not a regular Strat, but is some sort of rear-routed type instead, then all bets are off.

If you wanted to avoid adding an extra switch, you could use two additional P/P pots, one to turn the mag pickups on/off and another to turn the piezo system on/off. But the switching is a bit clumsy, since you have to pull (or push) two P/Ps to get both on. And this would preclude using a concentric pot for the piezo volume control, since AFAIK there is no such thing as a concentric P/P pot.

EDIT: Another thought: If keeping a stock look (no extra holes) is important, it might be possible to use a P/P for the blender pot, where pulling the P/P out both turns the piezo system on and converts the blend pot to piezo volume as well. Not sure whether that would be doable or not. A second P/P on the volume could then turn the mag pups on/off, as suggested above.

As far as a wiring diagram, the Fishman instructions give you all the info needed to wire the system in. We can help with the piezo/mag switching once you firm up how you want to proceed with that.

[newey]

I don't know if I can get away from not having the mag/both/peizo switch for the peizo, does that even exist for a pot??

No, there's no 3-position "P/P/P" pot. The 3-way switching makes the most sense. As I said, I don't really see a way around adding at least that switch, except for individual on/off switches for piezo and mag pups. But the switching with the 3-way is better.

I would think replacing the blender with an engage switch for the neck/bridge depending what position the 5-way is in(1 or 5) would work. Then I would put the Fishman Preamp in the bottom tone spot instead of the blender.

The easiest way to do an "engage switch" is to use a "bridge on" (or "neck on", your choice), which could be on a P/P pot on the volume pot. In the alternative, you could use ChrisK's "Free neck on" mod to give you the N + B.

A "bridge On" or "neck on" setup also gives you the "all 3 pickups" option.

Do they even make a blender on a push/pull??

The blender shown on your diagram is just a regular pot wired for blending, so yes, you could have a P/P with that. But an actual "blend pot" (or "pan" pot, there is a difference) is a dual-gang pot with center detent. Those are not, AFAIK, available with a switch added.

I actually like the idea of the split happening automatically, but it certainly can be eliminated if need be...

It's not a matter of need, only a matter of your preference. It will work fine as per the diagram, it just gives you more than one way to get the SC sounds at 2 and 4- but eliminates the HB + SC options. Your call there.

[mp70]

No, there's no 3-position "P/P/P" pot. The 3-way switching makes the most sense. As I said, I don't really see a way around adding at least that switch, except for individual on/off switches for piezo and mag pups. But the switching with the 3-way is better.

I can live with the mag/both/peizo switch.. I was expecting that anyway! LOL

The easiest way to do an "engage switch" is to use a "bridge on" (or "neck on", your choice), which could be on a P/P pot on the volume pot. In the alternative, you could use ChrisK's "Free neck on" mod to give you the N + B.

A "bridge On" or "neck on" setup also gives you the "all 3 pickups" option.

If we can keep the idea of the original diagram where if you are in position 1 on the 5-way the engage gives you the Neck and if you are in position 5 on the 5-way you get the Bridge that would be great!

The blender shown on your diagram is just a regular pot wired for blending, so yes, you could have a P/P with that. But an actual "blend pot" (or "pan" pot, there is a difference) is a dual-gang pot with center detent. Those are not, AFAIK, available with a switch added.

I think the blend is out as I need to have (or would like) at least a master tone control... just adding the engage to the volume would work for me..

It's not a matter of need, only a matter of your preference. It will work fine as per the diagram, it just gives you more than one way to get the SC sounds at 2 and 4- but eliminates the HB + SC options. Your call there.

Let's leave the autotapping off since it would give a wide array of sounds... I can live with the coil tapping P/P on the tone giving me all SSS or HSH without the autotapping on 2 and 4....

This is sounding like it will be a good flexible guitar.. which is what I need...

Now to figure out whether I want the Fishman or LR Baggs bridge.. LOL

Thanks again!

Mark

[reTrEaD]

Aug 18, 2012 8:40:55 GMT -5 newey said:

In general, I'm not sure how happy you will be with the operation of the blender, but I've never tried it like that (I mean rheostat wiring). I'm sure others will weigh in on that topic. Certainly, the blender pot should be a linear taper.

I think the blender will be more controllable with a log taper. Reverse audio if wired so the full-on occurs at 10, audio if the full-on occurs at 0.

Because the pot is wired to couple the bridge and neck pickups together (instead of coupling one pickup to the output), it has an interesting twist in the way it functions. In any position that includes the Neck (Neck or Neck+Middle), the Bridge pickup can be gradually added. In any position that includes the Bridge (Bridge or Bridge+Middle) the Neck pickup can be gradually added. This adds a little more flexibility than a Neck-on or Bridge-on style blender.

Aug 19, 2012 7:14:35 GMT -5 mp70 said:

If we can keep the idea of the original diagram where if you are in position 1 on the 5-way the engage gives you the Neck and if you are in position 5 on the 5-way you get the Bridge that would be great!

Easily accomplished. Just replace the blend pot with a switch.

Bridge-on, Neck-on, and Bridge-coupled-to-Neck all get you the two additional combinations (Bridge+Neck and All Three Pickups). But each has a unique set of redundancies.

Bridge-on
Neck ------------------ Neck+Bridge
Neck + Middle --------- All Three
Middle ----------------- Middle+Bridge
Middle + Bridge --------- Middle+Bridge
Bridge ----------------- Bridge

Neck-on
Neck ------------------- Neck
Neck + Middle ---------- Neck+Middle
Middle ----------------- Neck+Middle
Middle + Bridge --------- All Three
Bridge ----------------- Neck+Bridge

Bridge-coupled-to-Neck
Neck -------------------- Neck+Bridge
Neck + Middle ----------- All Three
Middle ------------------ Middle
Middle + Bridge ---------- All Three
Bridge ------------------- Neck+Bridge

[mp70]

Interesting..can this be accomplished with just a P/P Pot?? I want to try to keep it as stock looking as possible and make it easy for live situations...

The blend needs to be out since I need the last tone spot for the Fishman Powerchip..

Thanks..

Mark

Aug 19, 2012 7:44:19 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

Easily accomplished. Just replace the blend pot with a switch.

Bridge-on, Neck-on, and Bridge-coupled-to-Neck all get you the two additional combinations (Bridge+Neck and All Three Pickups). But each has a unique set of redundancies.

Bridge-on
Neck ------------------ Neck+Bridge
Neck + Middle --------- All Three
Middle ----------------- Middle+Bridge
Middle + Bridge --------- Middle+Bridge
Bridge ----------------- Bridge

Neck-on
Neck ------------------- Neck
Neck + Middle ---------- Neck+Middle
Middle ----------------- Neck+Middle
Middle + Bridge --------- All Three
Bridge ----------------- Neck+Bridge

Bridge-coupled-to-Neck
Neck -------------------- Neck+Bridge
Neck + Middle ----------- All Three
Middle ------------------ Middle
Middle + Bridge ---------- All Three
Bridge ------------------- Neck+Bridge

[reTrEaD]

Yes Mark, PP would work fine. In fact a simple SPST switch is all that would be required for any one of the three choices. So just decide which of the three you want.

The way I see it, you have a few decisions to make.

1 - Neck-on, or Bridge-on, or Neck-coupled-to-Bridge.
2 - Added pickup when pulled or pushed.
3 - Split HBs when pulled or pushed
4 - Which function (added pickup or HB splits) goes on the PP for the volume and which function goes on the PP for the tone.

[mp70]

Hey reTrEaD, I think this is what I would like:

- HB split on the tone (HB down/SC up)
- Neck/Bridge Engage on Volume (Down unengaged/Up Engaged)
- I would like the Neck/Bridge to be added depending on where the 5-way is. If it's in the 5-Position (Neck) the Volume PP would add the Bridge Pickup, if the 5-Way is the in 1-Position (Bridge) the Volume PP would add the Neck Pickup. Similar to the first diagram I posted which initially used the blender. If we can do the 3 pickups in position 2 & 4 when the Volume PP is up (on) that would be nice but not necessary..

Thanks!

Mark

Aug 20, 2012 20:56:28 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

Yes Mark, PP would work fine. In fact a simple SPST switch is all that would be required for any one of the three choices. So just decide which of the three you want.

The way I see it, you have a few decisions to make.

1 - Neck-on, or Bridge-on, or Neck-coupled-to-Bridge.
2 - Added pickup when pulled or pushed.
3 - Split HBs when pulled or pushed
4 - Which function (added pickup or HB splits) goes on the PP for the volume and which function goes on the PP for the tone.

[reTrEaD]

Aug 21, 2012 6:56:39 GMT -5 mp70 said:

If we can do the 3 pickups in position 2 & 4 when the Volume PP is up (on) that would be nice but not necessary..

All three pickups in positions 2 and 4 when the volume is pulled, is part of the package. In fact it would be impossible to eliminate it because of the way the 5way bridges contacts in positions 2 and 4.

This should get you where you wanna go:


I left the series links (Black and White) connected to terminals on the opposite side of the 5way, as a convenient place to make connections. Since I removed the connection to the "middle" throw on that side, that side of the switch isn't actually doing anything.

[mp70]

Looks good.. now hopefully we can get the whole thing planned out with the fishman powerchip preamp in that diagram as well and I can give it a go as soon as I get the pickups!

Thanks!

Mark

[mp70]

I may be switching pickups to the Bill Lawrence L-90's (neck/bridge) and L45S (middle).. what changes would I need if I wanted to do Series for the HB's instead of split??

Thanks!

Mark

[mp70]

Any idea how to do this in Series instead of Coil split with the L-90??

Beuler? Beuler? LOL

Mark

[reTrEaD]

In series instead of coil split? I don't understand.

[mp70]

Doh... I meant parallel ...

Sorry..

[reTrEaD]

More poles are needed to do series/parallel than series/split. You would need to use a 4PDT minitoggle or two DPDTs (minitoggle or push-pull).

[mp70]

hmm.. I guess I can try it this way and see how it works.... I would rather not add any extra stuff to the stock-like look if I can help it...

[reTrEaD]

The drawing our discussion is based on appears to use DiMarzio color codes. Not sure how the colors on the L-90 are assigned, but probably not the same. Be sure to change the colors as needed.

[mp70]

I will have to talk to Becky at Wilde Pickups and find out what the codes are when I order them..