German Klira - rotary tone switch

[klira]

Hi,

I recently bought a Klira Triumphator, a German guitar built in the early sixties, and it's in a quite bad condition.
The wiring is completely removed, that's why I'm struggling so hard to figure it out.
Well, originally, it had two single-coils wired to a 4-way rotary switch (off, Neck, Bridge, parallel).
But it had no simple tone control, instead there is 4-way rotary switch. The 4 positions are labeled as "T-", "T+B+", "T+B-" and "B-". I guess that the "T" is for treble and the "B" for bass.

"T-" seems to be a simple low-pass filter, but the rest leaves me clueless... Is "B-" meant to be a low-cut filter? Possible, but not quite common in guitars...

Well, as you might see, I need some help with that one. Let me know if you have any ideas!

Thanks so far!

Klira

[newey]

klira-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

I'm guessing it is similar to this Schaller "Cream" tone circuit, as used on Framus Jazz guitars from the late '50s- early '60s. Note that both Framus and Schaller are German companies, as is your guitar. SO, I'm guessing this is at least similar if not identical.




Here's a schematic for this. It has both hi-pass and low-pass filters, or a combo of both for a "mid notch" setting. This is similar to the G & L "Legacy" tone circuit with a rotary switch instead of pots.

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=wiring&action=display&thread=4665

[klira]

Hey newey,

thanks you so much! Seems to be what I'm looking for
But, in the schematic, is that a two-deck switch? Mine has a single-deck switch... Or is it me not getting it?

Thanks!

[newey]

But, in the schematic, is that a two-deck switch? Mine has a single-deck switch... Or is it me not getting it?

The switch has 2 poles; that may be 2 poles on one deck or it could be 2 decks with one pole apiece. It's a double-pole four-throw rotary switch (DP4T). It will have eight lugs plus 2 common lugs.

Single deck 2 pole switches are fairly common. If yours is one of these, it will likely have two common poles in the center, and 8 lugs around the side. If that doesn't help ID your switch, a photo may help.

Note also that the schematic I linked to has an extra switch, labeled "R" and "M". The guitar I pictured doesn't have that switch, so the schematic isn't exactly identical to the guitar, either. The "R-M" switch engages/disengages a cap and resistor combo (called an RC filter). This can be omitted if desired.

[klira]

My switch seems to be different.
Here's a picture:









[EDITed by sumgai to directly display the image.]

[klira]

Nobody an idea?
It really seems to be the original switch, so it should be possible to wire it that way. Or is it impossible with such kind of switch? Then I'd get a new one...

[sumgai]

klira,

I have to say, what you want to accomplish is not exactly clear - are you attempting to duplicate the original wiring and switching scheme, or do you want to implement something else (new, modified, whatever....)?

If you're trying to restore a switch circuit so that the markings on the faceplate are executed just like the original, then a double-pole switch will be necessary (or some other switch that imitates the function of shorting the 2nf cap while in Position 1). I think that what you have in your hand (the image you posted) was not the original switch mounted in that guitar when it left the factory - my guess is that somebody has beat you to the "making modifications" stage.

HTH





sumgai

[klira]

Thanks for your answer!

Oct 31, 2012 11:57:45 GMT -5 sumgai said:

are you attempting to duplicate the original wiring and switching scheme

yes, I do.

Oct 31, 2012 11:57:45 GMT -5 sumgai said:

I think that what you have in your hand (the image you posted) was not the original switch mounted in that guitar when it left the factory

I really thought so, it's identical with the other mounted switch and both look quite old - but that's no guaranty.
So I'd need that kind of switch? www.ebay.com/itm/2P4T-220V-KSZ-1X11-PCB-Mounting-Band-Rotary-Switch-1-Deck-/350630026242?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D3133597134655441483%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D350609982611%26

Thanks, klira

[wal]

Thanks a lot for that schematic. On which site did you read/get this? As its numbered nr 3 there might be more of those. Ive got a Klira myself with that tonecontrol somehow wrongly connected.

[newey]

wal-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Unlike some boards, we don't have a problem with resurrecting old threads, as you have done here with this decade-old discussion. The problem lies in how likely you are to get a response. The original poster, member klira, has not posted back in many years and his image of the switch has disappeared in the intervening years.

I don't recall where I saw that schematic but I believe it was from Schaller's own site with archives of their old product info. At least, I think that's where.

If you can describe your particular problem or issue in a bit more detail, maybe we can help you find what you're looking for.