teking66
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Post by teking66 on Nov 8, 2012 13:52:18 GMT -5
Not so much a question as a hashing out of an idea. Comment, thoughts, concerns and just plain good knowledge are all welcome here.
OK, so I'm thinking about basically building me a new Strat. Here's my idea. Start with a Squire (maybe Fender) Strat body and Neck. Place a split coil humbucker in the bridge position. In the middle position I'm thinking a Lace "Hot Gold". And for the neck position either a split coil humbucker or a P90. Now, on top of this, I have considered maybe even throwing in a piezo pickup either built into or mounted to the bridge.
As for switching setup, I'd like to do the following (additional/different switches normal to a strat are not out of the question)
1. be able to run any single pickup. 2. Neck pickup and bridge pickup. 3. Middle pickup and bridge pickup. 4. Neck pickup and middle pickup. 5. All three together.
If the piezo bridge happens, then the same combo's as above. Just having the piezo bridge on a separate switch that can be bypassed or added in I think would be best.
I'd like to hear peoples thoughts on this setup. Would I be wasting my time and money? Would this combination of pickups even be worth cobbling together?
Or, could it be that I'm just losing my freakin' mind. ;D
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Post by newey on Nov 8, 2012 18:39:14 GMT -5
Not crazy at all, teking. Using 3 toggles as On/Off switches, one for each pickup, will get you all the combos you seek. If the coils of the HB aren't split to single-coil operation, there are 7 possible parallel combinations of 3 coils (8, if you count "all off"). A regular Strat only does 5 of the 7; individual toggles can give you the other two. We were just discussing something similar in ace's thread, although he's talking about a rotary switch (or several) to control the bridge HB. Adding a piezo system adds some complexity, since you need a preamp, which means a battery. For a Strat, you could look at some of those "in saddle" piezos like the Ghost™- they've worked out all the engineering kinks, so installation is easier than a DIY operation. But DIY can of course be cheaper. JohnH has a thread on how to add a piezo, using a cheap buzzer element. He has sound clips, and I thought he got a very convincing acoustic sound with this approach.
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Post by geo on Nov 9, 2012 4:09:29 GMT -5
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teking66
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Post by teking66 on Nov 9, 2012 8:39:14 GMT -5
Cool beans, Thanks for the tips. Sounds like a little more research is due, but that's all good. I'll check out the links in more detail this afternoon. But, this is all good info that I'm sure I needed.
Currently I already own a Japanese Strat, and could make the mods to it. Though I would probably get a new face plate/pickguard and build on/around it. At this point I haven't yet purchased anything. So most of the components are still kinda up for grabs.
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Post by sumgai on Nov 9, 2012 12:40:20 GMT -5
tekkie, The fastest and easiest way to get your "all 7 combos" is to install a Bridge Always On switch. (Said switch could be wired to select the Neck instead, that'd be your call.) While I don't seem to be finding the original thread on that topic here in The NutzHouse, but I did find a link to a Seymour Duncan drawing that shows where to put the switch in your guitar: In the above image, the switch is a push-pull mounted onto the back of the Volume control, but if you don't want to change out your Vol pot, you can go ahead and put a separate switch anywhere else that strikes your fancy. Did all that make sense? sumgai
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teking66
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Post by teking66 on Nov 9, 2012 16:33:33 GMT -5
Something to consider, I have started looking a parts a bit harder today. Reason being that today I stopped by a local pawn shop, they just happened to have a new (nearly) Squire Strat sitting there. It's nothing special, but I figured for $100 It would make a great starting point. Once I got it home and got to looking at it a bit closer, I noticed that one of the saddles has a stripped screw. So, looks like a piezo bridge is in the near future (I really hate that, so bad it almost makes me jump for joy).
I be looking at the Ghost brand stuff and may check out the LR Baggs X-Bridge. And since I have never really messed with a piezo loaded bridge. I would like to hear peoples thoughts there. What are the pros and cons of each between the two?
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Post by 4real on Nov 9, 2012 16:53:40 GMT -5
First thing I'd be watching out for...
Squier and fenders tend not to be interchangable...the bridges in particular are often a bit narrower as is the string width as a result...so not all bridges and saddles will fit. Not enough to replace the bridge because the fretboard will not be wide enough for the extra width of a real 'fender'...
You do also need to be careful that you are not spending a lot on parts on a guitar of insufficient quality.
As for pickups...well you need to go back to first base and decide what it is that you want from the guitar.
I liked the Mike Richardson Scheme on my strat, particulaly for the neck+bridge that I use a lot. Different combinations of pickups can be good, but it can lead to balance problems. Not all pups split well either.
The MR and variations will give a lot of sounds...except the middle alone. There are other options though such as three toggles instead of the normal selector....well, there is a huge reference here...and rather than designing a new system, better to get something verified and tested that is close and slightly tweak that to taste than trying to reinvent the wheel...you may come across a lot more interesting things you've not thought of!
If you are going to use the trem, be sure you ahve that side of things and set up sorted. Personally, I really like locking tuners and such, so investigating this side of things could be well worth it. All the wiring and pups in the world wont count for anything if the guitar does not play well and stay in tune.
Piezos, well don't get your expectations up too much, there are good systems about but not cheap. A solidbody guitar with a piezo does not an acoustic make. It can be good, but it also requires quite a bit of circuitry and a battery you can get to...on the down side, you can get noise from just playing the things!
I like squiers and have two, but there are squires and then there are the good ones that can make great guitars...but the process to be really great, is generally pretty expensive.
I've though made a few intersting and good projects and learned a lot from what things exist on a guitar and so learned a lot by that process. I guess one can always strip the good parts off this for a future project so not necessarily a 'loss'. Alternatively if you ahve a good guitar, you might consider upgrading that and using the 'good' parts for the cheapy...
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teking66
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Post by teking66 on Nov 9, 2012 21:43:04 GMT -5
Yea, the E-to-E width on the bridge was one of my reasons for purchasing this particular Squire, it measures 2-3/16" at the saddles (I've seen a lot of squires that measure around 2-1/16" here). The guy at the pawn shop looked at me kinda funny when I pulled out a steel rule and started taking a few measurements. ;D The strings at the nut measure 1-3/8" from E-to-E. And the Scale length is 25.5" as well. I'm assuming the body to be Alder (finished in black paint). The neck is Maple with a Walnut spline (finished satin).
And, though I knew going into it, Yes this is going to get a little expensive. I figure by the time I done this $100 Squire Strat is going to have about $500-$650 worth of electronics in it. Listed below is probably that just in the pickups I've (kinda) decided on.
But let's focus on the "fun" of the build, ;D though I do still want something I can be proud of and happy with.
OK, so after a little searching I have discovered that I can get Ghost Piezo loaded saddles that will drop right into that bridge. Those and the acoustic board are around $170 (They also have a MIDI board that works with these, maybe a nice optional addon later).
Now, for the humbuckers. While looking at the Lace Hot Gold single coil. I also noticed the Lace makes the Hot Golds in a bridge and neck dual coil humbucker configuration. Lace even says they are just two single coil Hot Golds tied together, and I would assume those would split quite well. Kinda thinking that might just be the pickup combination I'll go with. Keeps me sticking to one brand of pickup as well.
A split Hot Gold HB in the Bridge, A Hot Gold single coil in the middle and a split Hot Gold HB in the neck. Edit: This brings to mind a question. Since I only want to be able to split the humbuckers to single coil or run them as a humbucker. Could that be done with a momentary push button switch? The second coil on each humbucker would then be on or off (or shunted to ground maybe).
Now as far as wiring these three. After some heavy reading there I'm leaning toward using a "Blender" pot. That kinda seems like the simplest and most flexible option. But, I'm going to dig deeper there. And the diagram sumgai posted above looks interesting. So many choices here, this may be the most time consuming part.
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Post by JohnH on Nov 9, 2012 22:47:25 GMT -5
Hi teking66 Just thought Id place a couple of thoughts your way, based on my experience with this design, which newey linked to in a post above: adding a piezoIf you are getting a ghost system, with its own preamp, then you are already way ahead and you wont need the coplexity of what I did, which was based on a rraw piezo element. But I would say that its a really good idea to make sure you have an overall low impedance buffered output on a hybrid guitar. Then you can go straight into a mixer or PA amp and get a full range sound. The piezos sound much better through PA than through a normal guitar amp. This morning I was jamming with it straight into a 15" active PA speaker, and it sounded huge. That means you will need one or two extra buffer stages to mix your magnetic and piezo sounds. Easy using JFETs and I can help you with designs already done. The other point I wanted to make, is that Ive been very happy with the volume/blending arrangement that I use. The mag system has a normal tone and volume control, after that is a blender (a single linear pot, not a dual gang blend pot). With this, I pan from full mag to full piezo, and i dont bother with a dedicated piezo volume. By setting the blend and mag volumes I can get any volume or mix I need. The inbetween blended sound are the best. If I just want piezo, I turn the mag fully down and teh blend then acts as piezo volume. etc cheers John
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Post by sumgai on Nov 10, 2012 16:43:33 GMT -5
tekkie, I had a complete Ghost system on my previous axe - shoulda never sold it! That said, the acoustic modeler sounded pretty good, the dark setting not so much (to my ears), but I have to tell ya, if you get that "MIDI" board now (it's not really a MIDI board, it's a break-out box used for driving synthesizers and/or modelling units), you can achieve an exact acoustic guitar tone without any further messing around. Granted, there's more investment, and to realize these sounds you're using more equipment than just your guitar, but if it's tonal quality you're after, the Roland GR-55 (and most of its predecessors) will do the best job, hands down. But even without the "extras", the Ghost Acoustic module will handle the mixing and buffering chores all by itself, no additional circuitry needed. Not to mention, it can do separate output jacks for Piezo and Mag pickups, if you want to install a second jack for that purpose. This lets you do what John suggests, run the piezo to a PA instead through the same guitar amp channel as your mag pickups. In that way you'll get the best possible tones, with the widest lattitude of control over them. HTH sumgai
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Post by 4real on Nov 10, 2012 21:25:31 GMT -5
The whole piezo thing is tricky and expensvie and...welll....there is another option... Have you considered using an acoustic modeller. With a decent amp setting and guitar, they can actually sound quite convincing (considering a piezo solidbody wont really sound like an acoustic anyway. With this in mind and as an option, I bought a cheap ($40ish) Behringer... www.behringer.com/EN/Products/AM100.aspxThey have a deluxe version with it's own reverb, otherwise looks the same. Effectively a Boss clone which has better quality I am sure, less noise, etc... Consider this option; It requires no mods or batteries in the guitar or other mods and can be used with any guitar at any time. 4 different 'models' of acoustics and has some handy 'routing' features like an A/B box or to run two amps. Honestly, using an electric guitar for the acoustic sound is rarely good, particularly when you have it set up for a good electric sound at the same time. A bit of hiss, but that is not uncommon with a lot of piezo systems anyway. Certainly cheaper and less complications and switches and circuits, likely going to be cheaper than the DIY option and...it has some kind of resale value I'm sure.
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teking66
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Post by teking66 on Nov 11, 2012 22:22:02 GMT -5
sumgai, the GR-55 is on my wishlist, hence kinda my reason for looking at the Ghost system in the first place. Also, I'm kinda building this to experiment with the midi and potential uses with VST synths. Plus, I'll mainly be running the output from this guitar through the PC. Be it Studio One, Cubase or whatever. Using a D.I. is also a possibility.
4real, yea I have considered an acoustic modeler, just not sure if it's going to give me all that I'm after. And, I have an acoustic 6 string as well as a 12 along with the a sound hole pickup and I can mic them as well.
So far this is what I looking to change on the above mentioned Strat. First thing will be to change out the tuners, probably to Schaller locking tuners (have those on my lil Jap Fender Strat). Second thing will be the bridge work, changing the existing saddles to the Ghost saddles & adding the acoustic module (for now). The Hex board will have to wait for a bit. Once I get these two done and I can set the guitar up properly. Then I'll concentrate on the Lace Hot Golds. Speaking of which, I sent an email to Lace Tech support concerning splitting there HB pickups to single coil. Hopefully, they'll let me know something this week.
Has anyone used one of the 'ToneShaper Stratocaster SSS-1 Control Knobs and Switch'? (found it on Guitar Center's website) Just curious, kinda wondered about the build quality and/or the possibilities of it. I noticed it mentioned on of the tone knobs could become a 'blender' switch.
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Post by newey on Nov 11, 2012 22:54:27 GMT -5
Our member Santellan has all the info you would ever need on that product. He designed it. Use the search function here, search for "toneshaper", and go back about 1500 days. You'll find a few posts by Santellan about it. You can also check out his website www.santellansounds.com and contact him through there, although he logged in here on Friday, so he may spot your question here as well.
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Post by 4real on Nov 12, 2012 5:47:00 GMT -5
My only reservation is if this particular guitar is a good enough quality base instrument for all this tech. That said though, I have two squiers that have been modded to pro specs, many with original fender deluxe parts (check out the 'stratosphere' aka 'reliable fender' who part out new fenders for parts with buy now or auction). And of courrse, parts in this could be transfered over to a better instrument and the experience gained there.
I highly recomend schaller locking tuners, was not happy with some cheaper GFS that with postage would be a similar price. I got mine from the stratosphere with teh 'fender' branding, if that is important...they really are good. If going to be using the trem, consider possibly something like an LSR nut if you think you can do the routing and such...they are good though on my tele ever so slightly 'wide' on a squier so might need to watch out for that.
Squiers/MIM and USA fender necks are ever so slightly different with a real fender being widest...this often flows on to bridges and other parts like neck sockets, etc...they are not all interchangable but often can be made to worl LSR's though need work and are a commitment as you need to remove some fo the fretboard to move the nut forward. A decen not though can also work, my strat has the original squier nut, though it is a particularly good high end squier model, not some 'starter pack' thigns that most people associate with the squier brand.
One option that you used to see a bit but not so often these days it seems, is to use mini toggles rather than the fender selector. You can fit three in the 'slot' for instance, usually the middle one is a 3 way and this gives a good visual reference and can be done by feel easily. Knophler used a schecter strat (tunnel of love era) with such a configuration.
As I recall the scheme was in GP mag and devised by Dan Armstrong...but I am sure there are others and ways to do this we might be able to devise.
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teking66
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Post by teking66 on Nov 12, 2012 9:13:05 GMT -5
newey, thanks for the info, I'll check out the link and drop a line from the site.
4real, If all else fails, most of the electronics I looking at I can always reuse in other guitars I already have. Take the two humbuckers I'm looking at, I'd bet they would make my Les Paul Studio or my Dot Studio sound different (maybe even better). And I can always drop the new single coil in the bridge position on my Fender Strat (other stuff as well). So no worries about money spent for naught, though I do understand your concerns there. And, I've kinda been looking for an excuse to maybe buy a new American made Fender Strat, so this could lead to that in the end. I think, for me, this is really more about my love of tinkering. And, sort of building my own guitar is something I kinda want to do for a few years now. And as far as this particular guitar is concerned I have popped the hood on it so to speak, the body is not plywood for what that is worth. The pawn shop I bought this at is new, and the owner is young. This guitar is not what he thought it was, I looked that the exact same guitar at the local Guitar Center, they wanted close to $300 for it. I wasn't 100% sure until I had my cousin take a look at this weekend, but he confirmed that is is a Squire Deluxe Hot Rails Strat. He also said, "that should make a nice modder man, I think you done good." I've been playing for about ten years, he's been playing for something like thirty years. So I trust his judgement.
Side note, the Epiphone Dot Studio that I have came with 150K pots (cheap ones at that), I upgraded those to really good quality 500K pots. Man, let me tell you, that simple little change turned that guitar into a lot better guitar.
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