mv1618 contacted me via email overnight, so having written a reply, I will post here for others who may be interested in this proposal as a 'one off'. I've not done this before as questions via emails tend to be private and I get a few, but this might show the kind of reply one might get and in realtion to a particular proposal...
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Thanks. The big 300 page thread was a 'discussion thread' and ranged widely for perhaps 8 years, there are many 'tutorial' threads about though that outline better the basic 'standard' sustainer things that I described... for instance...
projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=24211There are other 'tutorials' and threads in the reference section of PG there as well as GN2 and other forums. Unfortunately, all threads are exposed to trolls, one in particular and so all forums are 'concerned' about hosting such threads and in the case of GN2 investigate when ever a thread is started into the ISPs to be sure that this person or similar are identified and excluded. Personally, I now tend to avoid contributing due to this problem...as you can see the result has been to lock and even disappear whole threads...hmmm.
I do help where I can via email like this, it can be nice to know you experience/age and location/language and interests and also email makes it far easier to share pictures and such to explain ideas as necessary. As you can imagine, with so many people interested with their own ideas about this technology, very quickly any thread will 'explode' into a whole heap of tangents so this is perhaps a better approach to actually getting the help or advice you need.
As for Col's circuit, that kind of thing is probably directed more towards the person who designed it, Col turns up on GN2 occasionally so contact him here...
guitarnuts2.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=viewprofile&user=colI've not built it and don't know anyone who has replicated it, plus col himself has seemed to distance himself from it a bit, we all got a bit jaded in the end. I personally was not after the 'effect' that he was after in that design, so there is that too.
What you are proposing is a very experimental thing and there are significant problems with this proposal and I've done some work in this to perhaps explain why. This is very much the way in which all builders should test the drivers and systems before they even consider installing things to be sure that they have made a working suitable driver and device. However, to do this you need to test it at least around the 12th fret or 'higher' towards the nut because all pickups, even if not selected (they are still connected to ground) will be effected by the magnetic pulse coming out of the driver. It works better 'fitted' in the plane with the pickups and under the strings where the pulse is directed at them, but always there will be this 'transformer' effect with any coils...the pulse can een pass along the metal strings, hence you need 'distance' between any coils and the driver, particularly the source bridge pickup. In a fully installed system of my DIY type, you need to use something like a 4pdt switch to ensure that all pups are disconnected at both ends as well as the power connected and bridge selected.
Now, you are proposing a kind of 'ebow' wired to the gutiars source. This is something that I've done a little on and as mentioned, is the standard procedure for testing prior to installation anyway...but there are significant 'flaws' and risks involved in this concept that need to be considered and which I feel make it a little too much to be at all 'useful'. A better proposal would be to make or buy an Ebow.
For one thing, you would need to hold the device in the right hand...so how are you supposed to pick the guitar?...consider that you would need to be holding it well away from teh pickusp, higher than the 12 th fret. This too means that you would not be able to play notes higher than the 12th fret....so you know...that's a huge restriction. Also, the pulse would be going everywhere from the driver and no doubt would get into the pickups and cause noise if not screams of a huge volume (consider how a transformers two coils intereact). You would also need to hold the driver just shy of touching the strings, you can't just wave it an inch above, again, consider the ebow which rides adjoining strings, thats super close...sustainers need teh same kind of thing and power reduced to work at those tolerances in order to limit the interference with the pups. When you get the driver to do any sustaining, it would have to be 'off' in order to get it from the strap to a suitable position that will not scream and so, perhaps a switch on the device itself and the extra wires would be required. Regardless, a big risk of uncontrolled and very loud screaming sounds and regardless, noise that will be interference and stifle the effect...
An Ebow has an internal pickup and so avoids most of these problems. It works very close and only on one string, so needs less power and so less adverse effects, it has it's own internal pickup and driver system such that they don't create this kind of 'loop' with the guitar itself, though they still can be 'heard' through the pickups that many don't quite appreciate...it's part of the effect of these elgant devices as you move them towards the neck pickup. Also, they tend to work best/only with the neck pickup engaged, much like these sustainers need to use only the bridge pup to provide the necessary distance from source to driver. They are also a lot smaller, only working on one string, so it is easier to contain the pulse and to use less power and so less bad effects.
No...bi-lateral, HB wont help...the noise created is not like a pickup at all, though the driver may seem to be another kind of pickup, it works in reverse. So, not sure you quite 'got that' side of things. Understand that, in order to make the string/s move, a strong magnetic pulse needs to be emitted. A piezio is not a magnetic device and so can't e used to generate a magnetic pulse...so, that is again, something you might need to study to understand or write back about. The kind of 'noise' in pickups is called by RF interference in the atmosphere so teh two coils are cancelling that out and leaving the gutiars signal. In the sustainer, the problems are not from this, but from the intentional pulse that we need to move the strings, if you do 'cancel' this out, then the strings wont move as all, so no effect. There is a catch22 in all of this the more complicated one gets with it and you can quickly disappear down a rabbit hole. This is in part why my designs tend to appear and are very simple, they use things like small size and brute force SC drivers with a lot of 'throw' and so require less power and in turn, create less interference through that equation...there are lots of other benefits too and are easier to make.
Magnets are not 'magic' but they need to be designed for a more 'power' is often a bad thing. Neo mags tend to be most attracted to themselves. All are usally better with a steel or similar ferros core to direct the field and so pulse in teh direction rewuire and to 'capture' the strings and so move them in the field's 'sway'. The ferite ones may well be 'better' as they are softer in field. Remember very few and only very specialised pickups use Neo mags in them, there is a reason why most use alnico or ferrite types. More powerful magnets, does not make a more powerful device either...a strong enough magnet actually dampends a strings vibration...so don't fall for that. Similarly a more 'powerful circuit' is not going to be 'better' because more power increases the amount of pulse coming out and so interference. What you need is an efficient pulse (so good in the range of the guitar and the mass of the various strings), very close to the strings and as low a power as to get the effect.
That wire is likely ok for the standard driver, but the designs and concepts you propose are way outside the standard, so it is impossible to know what would be 'best' for your application. Wire gauges that I suggest are based on my particular designs, move away for the standard designs much, and you need to recalibrate everything to suit. My suggestions are based on known results from a known design. What you are proposing is not and so all bets are off and need to be tested over and over with all kinds of wire. But, given that I don't believe this to be at all a practical proposition and from testing such device applications (every sustainer I've built has been tested 'over the strings' at the initial stage).
Overall, you are proposing a kind of ebow...but in reality it's not practical nor will it work in the manner of an ebow. The ebow however is a very elegant and useful device for what it does, it is not a sustainer and so ties up the right hand and only works on one string at a time...there are quite a few differences, but they are a very elegant device. There are DIY versions about, but really a real ebow costs about as much and works better than one you might make. There are some other interesting sustaining like devices out there too...
futuremusic.com/news/testdrive/vibesware_gr-1_review.htmlThough I know little about this and there are apparently 'mixed' reviews...again, it is not a 'sustainer' in the sense of the kind of thing that I've worked on, more again like an 'ebow' but does not tie up your playing hands.
My take on the sustainer too, has not been so much about 'sustain' but other things it can do. In a way that a violin bow can be used to make a lot of expressive effects, not just to hold a note forever. It can generate automatic harmonics and 'blooms' and all manner of expressive effects that are not necessary anything to do with infinite sustain. Hence, my personal devices have accentuated a lot of dynamic range rather than cols approach which was to control that and be a lot more 'even' in response.
Unfortunately , the sustainer generally does require modification to a guitar. I've worked extensively on much of this aspect to have minimal impact, even to the extent of developing an 'invisible driver' the 'wafer coil' that fitted inside the neck pickup to form the driver itself...but it does require a lot of advanced wiring and skills to pull it off well and likely a few goes and quite a bit of 'frustration'...as many will attest ;-).
Anyway, I will post this email, this time, to the GN2 thread for others who might be interested and elaborate and discuss and explain further privately via email should you wish to continue this conversation. I've forwarded this also to 'darkavenger' who has an interest in this tech and communicates similarly by email from time to time.
For an example of the 'classic' DIY sustainer, my telecaster thread in the gallery at GN2 shows the implementation with low impact mods and a very compact driver as well as the extent of wiring that is required to make this work, as well as the quality of manufacture required as well, it is not an easy project and not for everyone and it does take some advanced skills. Once you leave the 'formula' or the application, all bets are off and so you will find yourself up against things like high strings not responding as well as one might hope...this is not from using the standard design principles but in trying to make 'improvements' before successfully completing the basic ideas or altering the design or application (such as making an HB version, etc). If you don't have this level of skills, making circuits, winding coils, advanced wiring experience and the need to understand the concepts far more than the simple principle of how the device works, it's best to leave till you have gained them otherwise frustration and often failure ensues. That said a very many ahve been built successfully based on the known concepts. It needs to be realised also that every guitar is different, in particular every source/bridge pickup is different and what goes in determines what goes out. Related is that you need to have an exceptionally quiet guitar so that the signal in to the circuit contains no noise. Noise in means noise out in the magnetic pulse and os interfere with the driving of the strings.
Ok, well enough from me for now, feel free to correspond as you wish via email...
Kindest regards,
Pete
Phillip Island,
Australia
