jerry
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Post by jerry on Dec 5, 2012 15:04:36 GMT -5
Has anyone ever tried placing the two coils of the same humbucker out of phase? I bought another guitar a few months ago and have been performing some mods on it (new pickups, additional coils switching options, etc.) I normally wire a DPDT switch to switch the neck and bridge pickups in and out of phase to give me an additional sound (very cool when using a Wah pedal). But I suspect the effect would be greater by actually switching the two single coils of the same humbucker out of phase because the coils are usually close to identical. That fact should cause a greater cancellation and a more profound effect.
Has anyone ever tried this? If so, please discuss what it sounded like. I'd like to know whether or not it's worth the effort before undertaking this mod.
(It's a semi-hollow body, so removing, changing, and then re-inserting the controls and wiring is much more involved than doing the same change on a solid body.)
Thanks,
Jerry
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Post by JohnH on Dec 5, 2012 18:40:34 GMT -5
I have it on an lp copy, using a 5 way rotary for each pup. Its super thin sounding snd hums too. Not really very much use except if you do it in series then put that in parallel with a single coil from the other pup, the result is a bright but usable sc sound that is hum cancelling if you phase it appropriately.
It is also a sound tbat came stock on my first guitar, a1976 Shergold. That sounded better, but its humbuckers have very widely spaced coils
I can get you a sound sample if you wish
John
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jerry
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Post by jerry on Dec 5, 2012 19:07:39 GMT -5
I have it on an lp copy, using a 5 way rotary for each pup. Its super thin sounding snd hums too. Not really very much use except if you do it in series then put that in parallel with a single coil from the other pup, the result is a bright but usable sc sound that is hum cancelling if you phase it appropriately. It is also a sound tbat came stock on my first guitar, a1976 Shergold. That sounded better, but its humbuckers have very widely spaced coils I can get you a sound sample if you wish John This is interesting! You answered my question and confirmed that I'm right -- the coils are more similar, and therefore, the cancellation will be more complete. The problem is that the joke's on me. The more thorough cancellation means less remaining sound and the cancellation is most evident at the low frequencies, which means, just as you said, that remaining sound will be thinner and essentially useless. No need to send a sample. I won't use this configuration for the reasons we just discussed. You saved me some time. I'll use that control to tap the neck pickup instead. I wish it was a four-wire pickup so I didn't need to open it, but oh well. Thanks, Jerry
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Post by ashcatlt on Dec 5, 2012 20:16:50 GMT -5
Nope. The coils being similar helps, but it's their proximity one to the other which causes the more total cancellation. A greater proportion of all the harmonics are more likely to be closer to in phase as the two coils get closer together. Thus more of the total signal is cancelled when you wire one coil to pull against the other.
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jerry
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Post by jerry on Dec 5, 2012 21:51:33 GMT -5
Nope. The coils being similar helps, but it's their proximity one to the other which causes the more total cancellation. A greater proportion of all the harmonics are more likely to be closer to in phase as the two coils get closer together. Thus more of the total signal is cancelled when you wire one coil to pull against the other. The near proximity of the coils causing closer to identical signals and therefore, more cancellation, makes complete sense -- thanks!
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Post by pete12345 on Dec 6, 2012 4:55:48 GMT -5
One thing that might be interesting is to wire up two humbuckers so that neck coil A was SOOP with bridge coil A, likewise with the B coils, then both groups in parallel with each other. I can't quite figure out whether this would be similar to the simpler neck and bridge SOOP.
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Post by JohnH on Dec 6, 2012 15:26:52 GMT -5
One thing that might be interesting is to wire up two humbuckers so that neck coil A was SOOP with bridge coil A, likewise with the B coils, then both groups in parallel with each other. I can't quite figure out whether this would be similar to the simpler neck and bridge SOOP. In that srrangement it would make no difference if you keep the A and B coils together or swsp them as you describe. Each coil is still connected in a similar topology and so will contribute the same. The key thing about it is that overall, one A coil and one B has been reversed out of the four coils. Now its all humcancelling again. This arrangement is also as stock on my old Shergold. And it is even thinner and nastier than each individual soop pup. Like a swarm of out-of-phase mosquitoes heard through someones elses ipod turned up too loud on the other side of the bus! J
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jerry
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Post by jerry on Dec 6, 2012 21:58:38 GMT -5
I think John's right about this. It's not much different. I've tried many different arrangements over the years and, truth be told, many, actually most of them, aren't all that useful. One guitar I built had all kinds of switching options (I counted over 50). But only a handful were truly usable. Many were too thin sounding or too muddy. Others are too similar to another option. Also, I couldn't remember which sound went with which setting. So, even if there were many useful sounds, if you can't get to them quickly or easily enough, what good are they?
These days, I design circuits that have most of the useful sounds without the crummy ones, and that only turns out to be about eight or ten different sounds or so. After that, I go to the pedal board for more options (delay, modulation, etc.) I wondered about Phase Cancellation in the Same Pickup because I had never tried it. But I asked about it here first because I've learned that most combinations aren't very useful -- John's experience saved me some time.
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Post by Yew on Dec 10, 2012 20:01:07 GMT -5
I ran a phase switch on the two coils of my neck pickup on the Firebird, it sounded alright, kind of thin and bright, but possibly limited in its use. On the bright side, it gave an interesting tone with a ton of gain on, reminding me of 'Whole lotta love' by jimmy page.
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Post by long813 on Dec 10, 2012 20:10:22 GMT -5
I ran a phase switch on the two coils of my neck pickup on the Firebird, it sounded alright, kind of thin and bright, but possibly limited in its use. On the bright side, it gave an interesting tone with a ton of gain on, reminding me of 'Whole lotta love' by jimmy page. I find the OOP wirings can give an almost wahhy sound. A number of LZ songs fit the bill and the all mighty funk!
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Post by Yew on Dec 10, 2012 20:19:50 GMT -5
I ran a phase switch on the two coils of my neck pickup on the Firebird, it sounded alright, kind of thin and bright, but possibly limited in its use. On the bright side, it gave an interesting tone with a ton of gain on, reminding me of 'Whole lotta love' by jimmy page. I find the OOP wirings can give an almost wahhy sound. A number of LZ songs fit the bill and the all mighty funk! Unfortunately I never though to try that setup through a fuzzy amp. I like the idea of putting an OOP neck in series with a normal bridge too, could give a nice tone..
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Post by ashcatlt on Dec 10, 2012 23:19:07 GMT -5
My mini strat is SHS with a GFS Lil Killer in the middle. It has the ability to put the middle OoP with itself. There's way more noise than string in that position, but since each coil is RWRP with either B or N (which are RWRP to each other) I can use it to get B-N and B*(-N) with humcancelling.
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