candyflipper7
Meter Reader 1st Class
?I don?t know sh*t from shinola. Maybe that?s why I?m so original.? -Ace Frehley
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Post by candyflipper7 on Dec 21, 2012 18:58:19 GMT -5
First of all... Happy Holidays, To everyone here at GN2. Thanks for having a good reference site and being so helpful and friendly to a "NEWBY" like me. Anyways, I was having a conversation with a few of my friends about guitars. Brand names....Fender, Les Paul, Gibson, Strat. Whatever you have. Everyone is so stuck on "I HAVE A FENDER STRAT" or just name your axe. Is it truly still a Genuine Fender, Gibson or whatever - after you have modded it, Changed tuners, pups, pots, necks, wiring....Is it truly still a name brand, or have you stripped the title of Fender away after you have made it your own? Just a thought..... Seriously if you have changed everything out of it, on it & In it isn't it truly just like having a shell with a brand name just "THERE" in name only? If I have offended anyone,(As I know there are and we are all lovers of our instruments and die hard guitarist) I'm sorry. Just a thought as I have a few originals I have not touched since I acquired my guitars in the early 80's & will never change the originality of them. That is just why I'm building a custom to have everything I like about each guitar, all rolled up into one "STRAT STYLED MONSTER". So I can keep my originals, "original". Love to hear thoughts on this controversial topic" that almost got me a black eye. (LOL)
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Post by 4real on Dec 21, 2012 20:38:59 GMT -5
Well, i'd not suggest lightly that someone mod an expensive new guitar...though, look at JohnH's new strat... For me, I played a LP for decades exclusively and still own it, back then we did 'modfiy' these things and some of them I do regret on that guitar, still mostly not and it is 'mine'. It's likely not worth it for most of these new gutiars, they should already ahve decent tuners and enough varitiety in the range to get something that suits your needs. Both my 'fenders' are higher end squiers and extensively modified up and beyond fender's 'deluxe' standards, often with fender parts. Theya re probably the most 'expensive' squiers you are likely to see to be fair One thing is that a really good guitar can't leave the house insurance wise...so that's not a good thing! So...once I brke my 25 year 'one guitar thing' and started messing around with really cheap guitars and experimenting and making up my won ideas of what I want in a guitar...well things changed. So, rather than think of a 'name' think of positive aspects of the instrument generally that you want to see or desire. For my electrics, I wanted great tuning and tremolo systems. Locking tuners I'm completely sold on, if good ones like schallers or similar, even likely to modify my acoustic with something like this in the near future. On a strat, the N+B sound is really useful, even the N+M+B is useful, on most HB's splits or similar are also cool, especially if you like 'clean sounds'. I don't think most are a 'name only' the inherient designs like a strat, tele or LP are so iconic to anyone and are the main basis of the thing. I strongly object to 'fakes' and restrained myself from putting my own name on things personally...thoug it can look a bit 'odd' without a headstock label I do admit. You do not get to make a 'swiss army knife' like guitar either, each has it's own personality and you will be making compromises along the way, have to be realistic and why not have several really good guitars for a particular purpose rather than attempt the impossible and ahve one that suits everything. Of course, you might develop your own 'style' and preferences that span all your guitars...that tends to be so for me. However, If I were to get into 'shred' say, I'd be building the appropriate tool for that style...it would not work for other stuff, but you could do that pretty cheap I suspect. I don't think it is really 'controversial'...unless you hang out with the wrong crowd. All this 'GAS' is a little much, it needs a rational match to it, not slugging it out with infantile fan-dom. Reality is though, that many 'brand name' guitars do what they do better than the 'fakes' but will cost you an arm and a leg. 80's gutiars, well, not always were they much chop as quality was in decline. There is a strong argument if you are paying multi-thousands for a guitar and have a very good idea of what you really 'want' to get something custom made given the number of supurb builders out there as an alternative. However, how do you know what you 'want'. Well, evolve musically, think a lot and rationally, try a lot of things and make mistakes on something cheap as you develop these things. That's what I did and I did, when younger, make a few gutiars and experiement with things and that is it's own reward too. We all go through our 'excessive' stage and that's a way to learn...go nutz withthe wiring on a cheap guitar and more...really work things like neck tilt and teremolo systesms and tuning stability and actiona nd find out what works for you...don't believe the hype...work it out for yourself. You will find that you like a particular set up as a rule and for what you play and that this evolves over time and while you might discover a few new 'sounds' that you like, they will be few. I personally want all that kind of stuff 'hidden and clean' and I want it to function silently, in tune and with a few decent sounds. I also, don't want it to sound 'generic' but have a versitile personality and uniqueness but also familiar in sound and look. Way too much of the 'brand' thing for sure, but you can't just make anything into some 'monster gutiar' certainly not through wiring or if it is structurally not up to it. Though, you certanly can have fun with some cheap guitars and learn a lot.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 0:05:42 GMT -5
First of all... Happy Holidays, To everyone here at GN2. Thanks for having a good reference site and being so helpful and friendly to a "NEWBY" like me. Anyways, I was having a conversation with a few of my friends about guitars. Brand names....Fender, Les Paul, Gibson, Strat. Whatever you have. Everyone is so stuck on "I HAVE A FENDER STRAT" or just name your axe. Is it truly still a Genuine Fender, Gibson or whatever - after you have modded it, Changed tuners, pups, pots, necks, wiring....Is it truly still a name brand, or have you stripped the title of Fender away after you have made it your own? Just a thought..... Seriously if you have changed everything out of it, on it & In it isn't it truly just like having a shell with a brand name just "THERE" in name only? If I have offended anyone,(As I know there are and we are all lovers of our instruments and die hard guitarist) I'm sorry. Just a thought as I have a few originals I have not touched since I acquired my guitars in the early 80's & will never change the originality of them. That is just why I'm building a custom to have everything I like about each guitar, all rolled up into one "STRAT STYLED MONSTER". So I can keep my originals, "original". Love to hear thoughts on this controversial topic" that almost got me a black eye. (LOL) agree! I would do the same. Its like with cars. A used car retains its value better if it is unmodded. Mods do not really attract potential buyers. But OTOH, the original designer of a model has to do a lot of compromises having to do with potential buyers, cannot satisfy them all, not even a tiny fraction of "premium" buyers without sending the cost up the roof! Also depends on the usage. E.g. a "passive" car, like a Mercedes will hold its value unmodded and untouched, OTOH only a silly owner will leave a subaru impreza WRX STI untouched since those monsters can go up +100 HP just by using an open source program to connect to them + 100 euro for the cable! We can think of Gibson Les Paul as the mercedes and the Fender Strat as the Subaru. In fact Strats, besides correct ballance/weight/ergonomy became as popular from the ease of modification. Anyway, i think you are on the right path. However, beware (like 4real had wrote) that you have to treat the whole system, rather than just buying whatever part is more expensive on your new partscaster. You might find in the way, that cheap combinations are better to your ear.
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Post by JohnH on Dec 22, 2012 0:11:21 GMT -5
Well, i'd not suggest lightly that someone mod an expensive new guitar...though, look at JohnH's new strat... I'm being very restrained on that one! The thing is, every time I've bought an electric guitar, always second-hand, there has been something electrical about it that has bugged me. Every time I start off intending to keep it stock for a while, but discovery of previous sins by others has necessitated immediate intervention. Even my Gibson had its pots wired all wrong and pickups out of phase. The Strat, was almost new and electrically fine, but just needed to be explored to figure out why it was how it was and to explore a couple of extra sounds that I rely on. Playing a stock-wired Strat or LP just annoys me now, as I try to find what I'm looking for, even though the main sounds are just fine and i no longer want to add 42 extra sounds. I think anything that involves a bit of rewiring or changed parts is valid, even though it may spoil resale value, and you have to judge that significance for yourself. The most significant step is if you start to drill or do other woodwork to it, and that is a step not to be taken lightly. I think if you start changing lots of parts, that's all fine too. Provided the neck and the body of the guitar are the same, then it has the same soul and is still a what-ever-it-says on the headstock. The Strat is heading towards a very simple but kick-a$$ wiring scheme, and if I get it done I'll tell you all about it. John
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Post by 4real on Dec 22, 2012 1:42:27 GMT -5
Ok...well I will qualify that post perhaps... A lot of people come into this 'modifying' without the skills of john or me and otehrs and even with the soldering skills and help here, they don't have the tools or the skills for a lot of the broader guitar modifying. I came from the era of DIY and have practice, but my scope is limited and I have a fair idea of what I am capable of given the situation...most people don't have that. Resale value, I've never considered it nor been able to or wished to sell much. I've given awy a few guitars and if anyone want's to buy a few LOL ... A problem arises when someone wants to start from scratch and make that 'monster guitar' and spend a lot of money as if it is necessarily 'easy' or have really gotten and hold on the limitations of things like wiring. So, I have a 1969 black Les Paul Gibson. As a teen I saved and bought it second hand adn that was 'my guitar'. I used it for every kind of genre, I had it pro modded with lots of 'brass parts' grovers, new bridge, and dual split toggles, even a flight case.... But you know, you can put together a much more interesting and just as playable guitar and not have to worry about the insurance and rigours of playing it and something truely unique. You have to judge the whole 'thing' amps and cables and effects, etc. Many will invest a fortune in a guitar only to be playing it through some practice amp. Better a cheaper guitar, modded to your likeing perhaps and a great amp and the whole signal chaing than that. Also, many go for a whole 'marshall stack' which is increadibly impractial for most...how are you going to move it, can you really realistically crank it. English groups like Zep were famously using 18 watters! And you got to take in the 'history' of this purchase too. You may well be entranced by chugging out heavy metal riffs now, but things change, you mature, something else will catch your ear...your wife will resent this wall of amps or room of guitars or just look at you as if some pathetic teenager/mid life crisis...you don'twant that. Fortunately for me, My LP was actually a very versitile guitar, many will never have heard it in the manner it was designed for, as a clean 'jazz guitar' for which a normal PAF like axe does extremely well. Unfortunately for me, even though had come out of that sixties english 'bluesbreaker' kind of thing growing up, at a crucial stage, punk gave way to the sounds of 'Dire Straits' and this was a completely different thing. I was getting enthralled by players like Jeff Beck and then the whole EVH 80's thing hit on top of that, followed by shred...and with that, so too the tools for the job radically change...and here I was, still loyal to a guitar that weighs as much as two house bricks!!! Hence, getting into cheap pawnshop gutiars and getting the best I could out of them...and the sustainer project too of course. Now again, my 'interests' have changed and the acoustic thing is really interesting...so you know...I am wary of present 'fads' and such, really take stock of what you really need and desire not the 'mojo' that is being sold to you.
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Post by JFrankParnell on Dec 22, 2012 2:51:11 GMT -5
I modify everything. Guitars, clothes, computers, the house, etc etc. I'm rarely content to use something as is. So, keeping a guitar original would only happen for me if it was a real antique of some kind. I'm also content with reissues or clones if the reissue is faithful. Like amps have to have tubes, tube screamers have to be pretty much the same old circuit or theyre not going to sound the same or even same-ish. But, I'm perfectly happy with a new TS or the clone that I have. I'm content with the 'paf like' pup on my Strat...see even for a Strat, where I like the strat clean sounds, I wanted the crunch of paf. Unless a guitar was played by Hendrix himself, I'm modding it to be what I want to play.
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Post by 4real on Dec 22, 2012 3:38:39 GMT -5
Good for you JFP... I ahve to say, I'm a little too precious and low structural mod these days...there are some things that you can't take back... Typically my 'projects' are months to years in teh making...they sit around for a bit...an example is my 'strat' say... I bought this 'on sale' when the ex wife held all my guitars pending settlement, which took 18 mo9nths...hmmm... This was on slae at half price new, it has a darker 'stripe' down the middle of it. It is a special 'contemproary strat' squier model, s a limited edition. I played it stock with reasonable pickups, the bridge PUP a 'duncan designed' model. Over time I was able to get at auction a pair of Jeff Beck noiseless pups and fender branded locking shallers. Ebay'ed a real SD JB HB from england and a few other bits and peices. Eventually, 3 PP pots and super switch and otehr bits and bobs...plus a 'theme' of 3mm machine bolts on everything, a bit of 'emu leather' for teh pickup ring to blend all in, etc. In the end, I didn't need to drill into it (though, I did make a battery compartement behind the trem block, but those mods were never carried out in the eend (it has a piezo and sustainer system). Byt, besides the battery thing, I didn't end up drilling or modding anything much. The bridge is the original squier as is the nut, but works perfectly well. I don't know how much the end result cost, not 'cheap' but spec'ed to a highest end fender and unique in it's own way. The guitar was perfectly playable from the start and all the expenses were spread out over time and ability to wait till I found what I wanted, cheap.
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candyflipper7
Meter Reader 1st Class
?I don?t know sh*t from shinola. Maybe that?s why I?m so original.? -Ace Frehley
Posts: 99
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Post by candyflipper7 on Dec 22, 2012 9:03:04 GMT -5
Love the feedback on this topic. When I first came up with the idea of my "Partscaster" Elsa - Bride of frankenstrat, I found GN2 by accident. I was looking for answers on how to build a guitar from parts. I had no idea what to do or where to start. I bought this god forsaken ugly swimming pool body from GFetish and Joined GN2 since it was the only site that the forum truly had knowledge and expertise and decided I would use this site to help understand the workings of guitars. Yeah sure I play the things and truly believe that each one is something unique and has a different personality. 4real - Could not have said it better! I started to explore what I loved about all of my guitars from my early years until now. The sounds, the strings, the different caps I have used since the 80's. I thought about the music I played on each one, the pickups - pots and so forth. Never knew anything about wiring and so on though. I posted an un-thought out plan hear on GN2 and got alot of feedback . 2 people hear on my first post (4real & Newey) really got me thinking. 4real mentioned that think about things realistic of what is practical ( Something like that) but anyways) It stuck with me, and pretty much they are words I keep in mind when planning out this project. Those words and some things Newey explained to me, and other members have got me to a point where I seriously think about guitars much, much more differently these days. They are fascinating instruments. Once again...Thank-you all for your feedback on this topic. It's great to hear the passion and thoughts of other guitarist.
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candyflipper7
Meter Reader 1st Class
?I don?t know sh*t from shinola. Maybe that?s why I?m so original.? -Ace Frehley
Posts: 99
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Post by candyflipper7 on Dec 22, 2012 9:18:49 GMT -5
First of all... Happy Holidays, To everyone here at GN2. Thanks for having a good reference site and being so helpful and friendly to a "NEWBY" like me. Anyways, I was having a conversation with a few of my friends about guitars. Brand names....Fender, Les Paul, Gibson, Strat. Whatever you have. Everyone is so stuck on "I HAVE A FENDER STRAT" or just name your axe. Is it truly still a Genuine Fender, Gibson or whatever - after you have modded it, Changed tuners, pups, pots, necks, wiring....Is it truly still a name brand, or have you stripped the title of Fender away after you have made it your own? Just a thought..... Seriously if you have changed everything out of it, on it & In it isn't it truly just like having a shell with a brand name just "THERE" in name only? If I have offended anyone,(As I know there are and we are all lovers of our instruments and die hard guitarist) I'm sorry. Just a thought as I have a few originals I have not touched since I acquired my guitars in the early 80's & will never change the originality of them. That is just why I'm building a custom to have everything I like about each guitar, all rolled up into one "STRAT STYLED MONSTER". So I can keep my originals, "original". Love to hear thoughts on this controversial topic" that almost got me a black eye. (LOL) agree! I would do the same. Its like with cars. A used car retains its value better if it is unmodded. Mods do not really attract potential buyers. But OTOH, the original designer of a model has to do a lot of compromises having to do with potential buyers, cannot satisfy them all, not even a tiny fraction of "premium" buyers without sending the cost up the roof! Also depends on the usage. E.g. a "passive" car, like a Mercedes will hold its value unmodded and untouched, OTOH only a silly owner will leave a subaru impreza WRX STI untouched since those monsters can go up +100 HP just by using an open source program to connect to them + 100 euro for the cable! We can think of Gibson Les Paul as the mercedes and the Fender Strat as the Subaru. In fact Strats, besides correct ballance/weight/ergonomy became as popular from the ease of modification. Anyway, i think you are on the right path. However, beware (like 4real had wrote) that you have to treat the whole system, rather than just buying whatever part is more expensive on your new partscaster. You might find in the way, that cheap combinations are better to your ear. Well said! Yes, that's they way I see it going so far. I am sure this guitar will have Humbucker, after Humbucker untill the right combinations will be found for it's own unique sound. As far as tone goes a Varitone type of switch will be used with 6 caps in rotation. And tuning, tuning, tuning. I would love to finally have a guitar that can stay in tune after trem arm usage. Sustain. Heavier block perhaps? Roller nut for sure, Roller saddles. That tuning issue haunts me so.....Why does it seem we always never find perfection in sound? And when we do it's gone just that fast!
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Post by long813 on Dec 22, 2012 11:14:03 GMT -5
Having a poor construction background (and the lack of tools) most mods I've ever done were electrical. From that, I want a guitar to sound specific ways, so no matter the 'price' of a guitar I'm down to mod it. That said, some high end 'vintage' guitars use vintage braided wire which can make some circuit mods a pain... and I wouldn't buy them Which, I guess is the point your making. If I were to buy a 'vintage' instrument, I wouldn't mod it. I actually take pride in the fact that my epi LP is hardly stock. Not that I care about the name one way or another, it's nice to put your own touch to it. Make it yours, perform the way you want it. I say if you aren't into reselling, do the mods you want (and are capable of) which will benefit you. If you think you may resell it, I'd keep the original hardware/electronics and rewire back to the original when selling.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 14:05:08 GMT -5
Well said! Yes, that's they way I see it going so far. I am sure this guitar will have Humbucker, after Humbucker untill the right combinations will be found for it's own unique sound. As far as tone goes a Varitone type of switch will be used with 6 caps in rotation. And tuning, tuning, tuning. I would love to finally have a guitar that can stay in tune after trem arm usage. Sustain. Heavier block perhaps? Roller nut for sure, Roller saddles. That tuning issue haunts me so.....Why does it seem we always never find perfection in sound? And when we do it's gone just that fast! OTOH, no need to get obsessed, unless e.g. there is a fundamental problem with the guitar you just bought new. It happened to me with the "Les Paul" type ibanez arz800 which had a very serious defect from the factory. I lost my sleep over it, until i returned it for a new one, which was finally good. I hear you, we sometimes get too stressed because we just can't make our instrument (partscaster) perform as we want, but it just is not right if you think about it. I have a shredding guitar Kramer 210, from the 80s, with floyd rose, and 2 duncans live wire active which is the most sustaining (10 secs B @12th fret, surreal!), and ultra sensitive to finger touch guitar among anything i have played. Fantastic performance. But it has its limitations. Somethings are better played on the Ibanez ARZ800, some (fewer) on the Carvin DC135 MY1988 (my two strats are at the tech's at the moment). The kramer 210 cannot play neither classic stuff, neither modern stuff. It can play some rock and definitely 80's metal. No clean sounds on one hand, bit no bassy drop tune growling slipknot/disturbed OTOH either! Just 80s! For van hallen, yngwie it beats anything in sight. Natural harmonics, with tremolo usage, sustain really long! Ibanez arz800 (les paulish with EMG81/60) can definitely win in classic rock dept + blues + metal + nu-metal + drop tunings !! But it has only 3 sounds! Now, the Ibanez arz800 (modern axe) weighs 3.5 Kg (7.7 lbs), the Carvic DC135 weighs 4.2 Kg (9.2 lbs) and the kramer 210 ...... 9.5 lbs!! heavier than a les paul. i guess. Now the partscaster was supposed to be a malmsteen replica. It was good at its job, but didn't like its light weight. I do not currently have the two strats to weigh them, but i will do after the holidays. I think weight plays some role. Bridge and tuning keys will be the next upgrade. I just think i will be once again tempted to buy some replicas instead of the originals, e.g. i am tempted to buy this : www.axetec.co.uk/axetec_media/mh606_chrome_01_1000.gifwww.axetec.co.uk/guitar_parts_uk_037.htminstead of this : www.thomann.de/gr/schaller_2030i_klemmmechaniken.htmor this: www.axesrus.co.uk/Fender-Standard-Vintage-Tremolo-in-Chrome-p/007-101-4000.htminstead of this : www.callahamguitars.com/brdgasn1.jpgwww.callahamguitars.com/partsstr.htmI mean could i spend 40 euros (mex bridge) + 30 Euros (schaller replicas), instead of 90 (schaller genuine) + 150 (callaham bridge assembly)? Also i do not know if buying all premium parts would do anything if the "infrastructure" underneath is cheap. I mean, if something is cheap by "design", by "concept", by "initial conception", then maybe better to leave it that way Being in the computer software industry, i have the philosophy, that if a system is designed badly from the bottom up, no upgrades will ever make it any better. Just like with cars. You can make a subaru wrx sti into a rally monster, but not e.g. an mercedes into BMW, they are not compatible, it would be better to sell the mercedes and go for the beemer (nothing personal with mercedes lol). I mean its just plain engineering. If something has a basic nature, you just cannot make it something else in a natural manner. But then again, i may be telling BS here, don't know really, i am in the same boat as you. An ex-rocker-metalhead-thrasher-bluesman-jazzman-nu-metalist-shredder "luthier"-wannabe amateur musician with ultra limited time in his hands.
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jerry
Apprentice Shielder
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Post by jerry on Dec 23, 2012 19:57:41 GMT -5
Just as another member said, I, too, modify almost everything. Perhaps it's because I started as an engineer (never satisfied -- it can always be better). I'm just usually not completely happy with any product -- that seems to go double for my musical instruments and amps. I recently bought a new archtop this past September and have made several mods to it. I definitely like it better now and it's currently my favorite axe. I couldn't care less about its resale value.
NOW, I'm not saying it's wrong to do so, just that it's not what I do. That's because I usually want a product to meet MY needs -- that's why I buy it in the first place. The mods just get me closer to that goal.
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rockledge
Rookie Solder Flinger
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Post by rockledge on Apr 2, 2013 20:08:56 GMT -5
I modify most of my guitars. I prefer to get Asian guitars and mod them to my own specs. I have played for nearly 5 decades, and I think the Asian guitars being made now are blowing everything else out of the water, including the Chinese instruments which didn't take long to get up to snuff. I prefer them mostly for the woods used in them and the extremely tight and consistent build quality. I am a freak about intonation, as well as having guitars keep a setup. I prefer to set my own guitars up and I gig and record a lot, so I don't need instruments that are a constant maintenance time consumer.
On Strats I normally use a treble bypass, rewire the tone controls to the middle and bridge pickups, and add a mini toggle switch that shunts the neck pickup directly to the volume control, so I can have the neck and bridge on at the same time as well as all 3 on at once. I sometimes do cosmetic alterations to them, but most of what I do is for performance and function. The name on the headstock means nothing to me. Some of my best guitars are also some of the least expensive that can be had.
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