allmektig
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Post by allmektig on Jan 26, 2013 22:22:18 GMT -5
So... I was using it to test some effects I'm building, and I had it standing against my desk. As I got up the guitar fell over and hit the floor. Didn't think to much of it then, but when I played it a bit later, I felt a sharp edge on the back side of the neck, just below the head.   When I poke at the head REALLY carefully, the crack opens up a tiny tiny bit. Should I be worried about this? How do I fix it? |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 26, 2013 23:11:51 GMT -5
Topic: I cracked the headstock on my girlfriends Les Paul Has she cracked your head yet? Should I be worried about this? Yes. This will only get worse over time. Once dirt and oils invade the crack it'll be a nightmare to fix. Pull the strings and put some blue 3M painters masking tape over the crack now to avoid this problem down the road. That is, unless said girlfriend dumps you for this faux pas...after all, a problem deflected is a problem solved. Before I answer this, what is your inventory of tools and experience with guitar repair? This is not a novice repair at this point as getting good glue adhesion is tricky and getting it wrong now will make a permanent repair later more difficult. It's actually easier to fix a complete break then a crack. I'd hate to make a bad situation worse. You not only have the crack to worry about, but you've also got finish repair to consider. Done poorly it will make one ugly mess. Let me know your level of bravery on this and I'll do what I can to help you. This initial caution is based on the axiom of "once you're in the hole you can stop digging". This is probably a $150.00 US repair at this point. Buying the tools and supplies to do this, if you don't already have them, might just be a wash. There is no sin in using a good guitar tech. Happy Trails Cynical One
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allmektig
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Post by allmektig on Jan 26, 2013 23:20:33 GMT -5
She's at her parents house for the weekend, so she doesn't know yet.
And she loves that guitar...
Why blue masking tape? Could it be any tape?
My tools inventory isn't the best to be honest, though I do have a dremel with the usual bits, files, a saw, but no clamps or anything of that kind.
The finishing is not that high a priority as making sure the neck doesn't break is.
I was hoping it would be possible to "just" glue it.
$150 is $150 I don't have at the moment.
Besides, I'd guess that would cost even more in Norway.
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 26, 2013 23:47:45 GMT -5
She's at her parents house for the weekend, so she doesn't know yet. And she loves that guitar... I really feel your pain on this one. This is not a 5 minute fix. It would be faster to pack and be gone before Sunday night... 3M Blue Masking tape has a very low strength adhesive and does not leave a sticky residue when removed. Normal biege masking tape, especially the cheap stuff, will leave all kinds of gunk behind and potentially make the problem worse. Trust me on this. My initial answer is to tell you to find a good tech and just bite the bullet. You will need several good clamps, radiused wood sanding blocks to keep the clamps from biting in and to distributed the pressure more evenly. You don't want a Dremel tool for this job, unless you're a masocist. No saws or files should be required either. The first time you play over a glue seam you'll re-think that position. Well, you are just going to re-glue it, but you need to have as much glue adhesion as possible. Standard wood glues can only be thinned 5% before you lose strength. Epoxies can be thinned 10%. This isn't a lot. One trick we used to use was to heat some water in a pan and let the glue heat up for about 20-30 minutes. Only put enough in the pan as you're willing to use, as it will shorten the lifespan of the glue, especially with epoxies (which need to be heated separately then mixed right before you use them) If you have a farm supply store near you, or a good veterinarian, you can purchase hypodermic syringes along with a couple 22ga. to 31ga. needles. These are very small and are a once shot deal. One person holds the neck and separates the crack just enough to get the syringe into the crack deep enough to get good glue penetration. Then you clamp it quick and leave it overnight. You can scrape the excess glue off with a single edged razor the next day. Finishing will depend on whether the neck was painted or wood stained or dyed. I don't know if you're dealing with lacquer or some poly or catalyst finish. We can cover that one the neck is glued. Not to be cruel, but that's why I have $20.00 guitar stands for all of my instruments. Back in the day I loved it when guys leaned their guitars up against their amps...it was great for business... In the land of Norwegian Wood? Sorry, bad pun. This is a common repair for most techs to perform. From the pictures you don't seem to have a scarf joint on this neck, so that makes it a bit more straight forward. A few calls might be in order just to have a reference point to work from. Feel free to ask any questions if I've left something out or not been clear enough. Happy Trails Cynical One |
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allmektig
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Post by allmektig on Jan 27, 2013 0:00:28 GMT -5
The worst part is that I have a guitar stand. I actually have three.
It's just that they're "way over on the other side of the room", and I was just putting the guitar down "for a little moment"...
I feel so stupid it almost hurts.
I'll just have to make some calls tomorrow and try and find a guitar tech nearby who can do this repair.
Though... my GF's father is working as an engineer and does boat building as a hobby. I guess he might be able to help out with it.
I'm NOT looking forward to telling her though. "Honey... I kinda broke your guitar a bit..."
Syringes of different sizes are sold at most pharmacies, so they shouldn't be a problem to get.
What glue would be best to use for this, if I went the route of trying to fix it myself?
I don't think I'll be able to get any blue masking tape before monday though. Is there anything else I should do to keep it clean? I could wrap it in plastic wrap or something similar?
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Post by JohnH on Jan 27, 2013 0:30:14 GMT -5
Really bad luck. But I think LP's are famous for having the necks break, due to the tilted back headstock on a one-piece neck which means the grain cant be parallel. i have also heard that once fixed, they are good as ever.
I think the most important aspect is the lady herself, and how you deal with it with her. I'd think she would want/deserve to be involved in the decision of how and where to get it fixed. But you can do everthing to protect it, and research the options for fixing.
To keep dirt out, given that it wont be played now and hopefully put back in a case, I'd have thought cling film would be OK?
I wouln't tackle it myself, though I did fix one neck, but it was a cheap instrument belonging to a friends kid and there was no other option except to throw it away. Not the case here.
Good luck!
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 27, 2013 2:23:40 GMT -5
Plastic wrap will work. Anything that will keep contaminants out and not leave any residue to complicate matters. Let this be a lesson to you...always have 3M blue masking tape around... Normally a Les Paul breaks at the scarf joint. As you don't have one you're just re-gluing at the natural grain of the single piece of wood. If I were you I'd try and find some polyurethane glue. Gorilla Glue is what they call it here, but it may have a different trade name over their. The poly glue will flow a bit better than yellow wood glue when heated. I would suggest a few trial runs with the syringe and the glue. Too much pressure on the plunger and it'll squirt back at you, or do way more than fill the gap. Too little and you don't get enough penetration with the glue. The sanding blocks I mentioned earlier look like this:  First cut up some old inner tubes to act as a buffer\barrier between the block and the neck. It serves two purposes. One by protecting the finish and two it prevents the glue overrun from sticking to the block once you unclamp it. A minimum of two, preferable three beam clamps are needed for this repair. They look like this:  or  Like I said earlier, one person gently pulls on the neck to open the crack just enough to get the glue in. Dose the Hell out of it as you need to get the glue out of the small hypodermic needle all the way into the bottom of the crack. Some glue over run is common once the clamps are applied. You don't want to clamp it so tight you hear wood splitting, but you need it well snugged. Let it dry overnight then remove the clamps in the morning. Allow 2-3 days before handling to allow the glue to cure. Both yellow glue and poly glue can be thinned up to 5%. No more as it seriously degrades their strength. Either one can be heated in a container floated in some warm water. You don't need to boil the water, but you want it hot. 15-30 minutes should do it. You'll need to work fast as once you load the syringe it begins to cool and the viscosity goes up accordingly as it cools. Either glue is stronger than the wood, so as long as you get good coverage and a tight clamped repair the neck will be as good as new. Refinishing the crack is a bit more work and more time, but not impossible. Matching the color will be tricky, but if all you're after is a smooth even surface to cover the repair your life is easier. You could always just ransack the place and tell her vandals broke in...works good in America... Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 3:21:36 GMT -5
Well good luck, the whole situation reminds of pulp fiction when the guys had only few hours left to clean the place before the wife (nurse) comes home  |
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allmektig
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Post by allmektig on Jan 27, 2013 3:24:05 GMT -5
I found this: www.clasohlson.com/no/Pr343446000/Pr343446000 It says that it's a "water proof, very strong glue for woods with high moisture content" Anyways. Thank you for your replies. I'll have a talk with her when she comes home tomorrow and hear what she suggests. I got a feeling it will end up at a proper luthier though. If it were my guitar, the Kraken, I would do it myself, but I got a feeling she'll want it "done right". But, just out of curiosity, if I were to glue the neck, wouldn't I be able to sand down the glue joint and laquer on the back side of the neck to get it pretty smooth? I've never really understood how guitar finishing works. When I painted the Kraken black, I just sanded it down and used matte black spray paint on it, and that worked like a charm. Edit: Though my "vision" for the Kraken isn't to similar to what people envision a guitar should be. |
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 27, 2013 10:10:05 GMT -5
I did the Google Translator on the product description and it looks like it will work. Probably a bit of overkill, but better to be safe than sorry. Guitar finish is a topic all in itself...well, more accurately probably a forum... I doubt this guitar is finished in lacquer. More likely it's some poly or catalyst finish that the lacquer may or may not lift upon application. The best way to test if it's really lacquer is to find an inconspicuous spot and dab it with a Q-Tip dipped in acetone. If it softens after a minute and wipes away with a cloth then you've got lacquer....otherwise it ain't. Lifting a pickguard or pickup ring and doing this in the cavity to catch the overspray at the factory is the safest place to try this test...unless you really want to piss off the owner... I would advise against sanding this too much. The odds that you're going to match the finish are thin. You can flush the final clear very nicely if you leave as much of the original finish intact at the crack. I prefer to use a single edged razor to clean up the glue after it dries and the clamps come off. A light 400 grit wet or dry sandpaper used dry will give the new finish a good roughed up surface to aid in adhesion. A small assortment of artist brushes will be all you need. Stock up on 400, 800 and 1200 grit wet or dry sandpapers. You'll also need to re-polish the repair site to blend it back into the original finish. Some polishing pads, rubbing compound, polishing compound and swirl remover will also be required for this purpose. My personal preference, and probably the best stuff out there is the line of products from Meguiars. You may also need several coats of clear after your color coat to built back to the original height of the factory finish. As noted previously, this is not a quick amateur fix if you're looking for a clean result. For reference, you'll need to let the poly cure for at least 15 days before final sanding and polishing...lacquer is 30 days, so take heart... To be honest, with none of the tools and supplies laying around already this repair is going to be a probably a wash whether you fix it yourself or if it goes to a tech. And the advantage of going to a tech is the time you save doing it yourself....allowing more time to do the laundry, vacuum, do the dishes and visit your girlfriend's family... Good luck buddy, we're all pulling for you on this one. Happy Trails Cynical One |
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Post by newey on Jan 27, 2013 10:59:32 GMT -5
"I broke the headstock on my girlfriend's Les Paul" is a great song title. They say "write what you know".  . . .maybe there's an upside after all! |
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allmektig
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Post by allmektig on Mar 19, 2013 18:44:00 GMT -5
As requested, here's an update:
She didn't freak out that much, and I found a luthier that can do the repair for about $150-ish.
The guitar is currently lying in it's case with plastic wrap around the wound.
We've broken up now though, but that's for other reasons.
Still friends and stuff, and I'll get the guitar sorted just after easter.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2013 5:28:12 GMT -5
As requested, here's an update: She didn't freak out that much, and I found a luthier that can do the repair for about $150-ish. The guitar is currently lying in it's case with plastic wrap around the wound. We've broken up now though, but that's for other reasons. Still friends and stuff, and I'll get the guitar sorted just after easter. man, i wish there was some epoxy glue for the heart  |
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. . .maybe there's an upside after all!