Blacktop Tele

[ux4484]

Well, I pulled the trigger (as my Mrs/Kids passed on a 50th bday gift, they expected as much). The sticker WAS easily removed... Nothing underneath. One small scratch on the back (not very deep), and a tiny dent about 2" below the bridge. The pickguard showed lots of heavy strums (as most of mine do). The pups were lined worse than the Dot's, but unlike the Dot, they were lined from use, not dirt. I couldn't polish them out (no biggie as they're going anyways).
Put new strings on to check sound, relief, and intonation. Even though they APPEAR to be the same pups as on the blacktop strat, they sound very different on a Tele body and neck. Much brighter and snappier, and the tone control has much more range in all three positions (though still muddy compared to the GFS "Modern Vintage" HB's on the Cortez Tele) The nut and relief were fine, The kid said he never made any adjustments.
Intonation was way off. I was fiddling with the low E and A string for a while (almost fully back) and was beginning to think the bridge was too forward, when I measured for it (high E string) scale length was spot on... I started looking at the bent steel saddles, and they were bent in such a way that depending on height, the string left the saddle in a completely different place/angle from it. My first inclination was to tweak them all in the vice to make a consistent contact point, but decided to just replace them. Local shop had some 10.5mm W x 20mm L Allparts Steel/Chrome ones in stock. No troubles after that. Since the strings came off again, I decided to replace the pups. I was cursing fender for using 6-32 screws instead of 3-38's because I couldn't reuse the screws then. I only had two of the correct size for the pearly gates, so I decided to wait on the DM super distortion (80's 2 wire model). Resistance on the DM is about the same as the stock pups (14K), the Gates is about 4K, so I figured the mix would be similar with the stock in the neck position. I have some screws on order.
One other surprise for me was that the Fender Pups were 2 wire (+ sheild). Except for the Tele almost every Blacktop model has more advanced switching, I figured they would have been 4 wire like the Strat... Go figure. It must be cost effective enough for Fender to make that choice.
Next surprise: No bridge ground wire. No problem with hum or quieting touching the strings or the bridge, but I was still surprised. The cavities have the conductive paint with a lug to a switch mount screw, but the paint only goes halfway up the control cavity. Speaking of which: Is routed exactly backwards of a standard Tele with the larger portion for the switch towards the back... Why not just go with a clean route so it could be reversed back if you wanted.
The neck feels a bit wider at the nut than most U.S. Tele necks, but with the 10.5 mm spacing, the E strings are a bit closer to the edges (similar to the Blacktop Strat). 22nd fret is an overhang (again like the Strat), so getting the guard off/on is fun.
Once the PG went in, no problems doing a setup with the new saddles, it sounds quite a bit brighter even with the original neck pup compared to the original saddles. I was concerned over matching the level of the pups with such different values, but with the neck pup set about 3/16 over the guard, I still ended up backing the PG level with the pup ring (which makes them about the same height). There is a definite tone change when switching, but volume differential is minimal. The neck pup is still muddy when cranked, but adding the bridge to it cleans it up nicely. The bridge alone is much more sensitive to sustain than the stock pup (as it was on the LP jr). It defiantly pronounces the Tele Twang, but much more Throaty on the low end without getting muddy. I need to tweak the poles a bit as the B and E string are overly bright. Much easier to play than the Cortez Tele (the Cortez has a baseball bat neck), but even with the GFS in HB mode, it sounds more classic Tele-ish than this does. We'll see how it goes when I split the PG.

[newey]

I like the silver paint with the black/silver amp-style knobs. My temptation would be to "re-Tele-vise" it with 2 Tele SCs, as I don't think any HB coil-cut setup is going to approximate that "Tele Twang". But to each his or her own, of course.

[asmith]

Jul 21, 2013 22:47:20 GMT -5 newey said:

I don't think any HB coil-cut setup is going to approximate that "Tele Twang".

Sounds like it's time for a little nutz. You mentioned splitting the Pearly Gates HB, ux. Have you thought about the spin-select control that's doing the rounds? You could dial in varying degrees of "twang." Perhaps a push/pull pot on the tone control, or even a new knob on the control panel.

It's a pretty thing too. I like the black pickguard with the rosewood fretboard and maple headstock. Does the photo do the brightness of the metallic paint justice?

[ux4484]

As daughter #2 pointed out, it's the same color as my car (Toyota silver). I am going to split it, but I need to break it in a bit now that it's got some groove. I'd like to make some sound samples so newey can decide on the twang level. The great thring about a Tele is once the pups are in, tweaking is easy. I do want to try the Dimarzio in the neck, but it's a 2 wire, so I'm going to to unTape it and split it first.
Those amp knobs are quite high and do get in the way sometimes (I had replaced the ones on the BT Strat with conventional Strat knobs for the same reason). I'm not liking the wound G on it as much as on my other guitars (with either pups).
I'm set up for recording with my UX1 (Line 6), but I'm getting the Mustang III v2 rolling now as I know its sounds better than Podfarm's choices.
Windows 8 fun, I can get Amplitube to see it, but not Audacity (my simple record app of choice).

[ux4484]

Back at it again, got some 3-38 pup screws for the Dimarzio. First off was to break out the Super distortion's coils (early '80's 2 wire model). Turned into no biggie, as when I untaped the DM it had the coils broken out into hook-up leads already. Of course, when I got it apart, I couldn't find any 4 conductor sheilded in the house to save my life... Then I remembered that bag of USB cables in the basement. A bit tight in the pup guide hole, but worked perfectly. While it was apart, I put some Fender locking tuners on it (GC site SAYS Schaller, but package says Fender and Korea (might be Ping), by the way GC is Internet price matching +10% now, so I can get them at GC ($38) for less than Amazon($42)). Haven't decided on switching yet, so I wired it series in the cavity to the first position for now. Neck voice is no longer muddy with much better midrange than the stock. I noticed the pickguard had some static noise when my fingers brushed it, which stopped when I touched the spot where the control plate meets the guard, and if I touched the control plate and the bridge (bridge is not grounded stock). I figured I'm going to have to shield it anyway when I split them, so I took it apart again, shielded the guard, made sure it had connectivity to the stock cavity paint shielding, and installed a bridge ground lead (hint for feeding a wire into a pathway made from perpendicularly drilled holes: put a piece of thread in one side, and a vacuum cleaner tip over the other, suck it through and use it to pull the wire through). No more static pickguard (Though I did notice a slight dampening of treble from the neck pup afterwards)! I did make sound samples of the stock neck with the PG, and the DM with the PG... But I have to piece it together in a clip that won't put you all to sleep, or in a coma from my mediocre skills. So much better than the stock pups. Also a new pic.

I did find the trick to get Audacity to recognize my Mustangs USB input in Windows 8... DON'T use the ASIO driver (Audacity does not have permission to do so, it's a fluke it worked for me in Win 7). There is another tab in audio input devices (default disabled) called "Mustang Aux Jack" which is supposed to be disabled when using your DAW software. Enabled, Audacity sees it as a USB stereo line in (not MIDI or ASIO), like an MP3 player. Works perfect.

[ux4484]

Sound samples... finally! As this is my first time doing this, I dutifully read the sound sample rules AFTER making mine, but I edited them down to be unrecognizable, fortunately, I added a little riff at the end so you can hear chords and notes.
I apologize in advance...I had originally strung up the guitar with my stock D'Addario .010's with a wound G, but even though I took them off and put them to the side, I still managed to inadvertently kink two of them while shielding the pickguard (don't ask)and now am out of them. I wasn't wild about how the wound G sounded on this guitar anyways, so it was restrung with D'Addario Jazz lights (.011)
This is direct USB audio via my Mustang III v.2 using a personalized setup basically a '65 Twin Reverb: gain 3.7, vol 5.6, treb 7.4, mid 6.1, bass 4.4, and reverb 2.9
Guitar settings: volume at 7, tone at 10.

First up: Stock Neck (.010's)followed by Dimarzio (Super distortion vintage 1980)(.011's)

stockneck10s.mp3 (248.57 KB)DMneck11s.mp3 (287.75 KB)

[ux4484]

Next up: Stock neck with Pearly Gates (.010), and Dimarzio with Pearly Gates (.011)

stockneck+SD10s.mp3 (331.42 KB)DM+SD11s.mp3 (332.24 KB)

[ux4484]

Lastly, Pearly Gates (.010) and Pearly Gates (.011)

SDwith10wg.mp3 (293.46 KB)SDw11s.mp3 (377.54 KB)

Sorry I didn't take samples with the stock bridge, but I wasn't thinking of it at the time, it was VERY similar to the neck (muddy midrange), and no where near as twangy as the Pearly gates.

I was very careful about having the settings be the same every time, changes in levels are from the change in pups and strings... mostly. The stock neck was about 1/4 inch above the pickguard. The Dimarzio is level with the guard (done by ear to keep the level consistant when switching).

My one man jury is still out on switching, but it's academic now as Tele Plates are cheap, and It's a easy drop in when I decide to... Though I may have to route the control plate cavity as it has a "shelf" between the (reversed) switch and pots.


So newey... Twangy enough for ya?

[ux4484]

Pictures:




This may become my Open "G" guitar.

[ux4484]

Mini-update:
Added a small bit of foam behind each pup to prevent rocking (ironically from my Fender EXP-1 footswitch box). Took a bit of trimming, but no more klunking if I bump a pup.
Still out on switching, enjoying it very much as is for now.

[ux4484]

Finally decided on switching: one Mini toggle each for the neck and bridge, push-pull probably on the tone control. Mini toggles will be for S/P switching on each individual pickup and the push-pull will be for S/P switching for pickups combined. I outboarded this with jumpers already, and I'm pretty content with the variety of sounds.
I may consider using a four position Tele switch to get that split coil in the bridge, but it was quite hummy outboarded.
I was considering a Brent Mason type setup, but I think this has more options (and won't require any routing).

[newey]

I may consider using a four position Tele switch to get that split coil in the bridge, but it was quite hummy outboarded.

If you're going to go that route, it might make for more logical switching to wire the 4-way like on the Baja Tele, so you've got the series/parallel options on the lever, and then put the coil cut on the p/p, since you'd probably use that option less frequently.

And yes, it's twangy enough!

[ux4484]

That's a good point newey, I was thinking efficiency of wiring and not of use. That would be better operationally.
I'm hoping to not have to route the control cavity. I found a few affordable plates with 4 & 5 pos switches on them, and some even with the mini-toggles with a push/pull, but many of them are 250k pots. I'll probably just get a blank and build it up. I'm still scratching my head that Fender reversed the route instead of just going with a clean control plate shaped plunge, it's really not that much more wood to remove... And would have been much easier to sheild/paint (the "shielding" paint only goes up halfway from the bottom in the control cavity).

[ux4484]

Parts are finally all in. I've found Amazon is getting quite into the gitparts biz, CTS pots and fender branded super switch (4 pole 24 lug) were a real deal there: $33 total for the pots, switch, plate, and mini-toggles.
I'm still out on switching though.
The Dimarzio is a "meh" split by itself, but the pearly gates is definitely worth it (as is it mixed with the Dimarzio split).
So now I'm thinking one mini to split them both, and s/p the pups on the super switch. Still leaves me with one open switch position.

Decisions....

Suggestions gladly taken.

With the size of this stuff on the control plate, looks like I won't be able to avoid routing the control cavity. It'll just make everything easier I suppose.

[ux4484]

As this is the only guitar I still have when I posted this originally, I thought I should finish it up.

I eventually opted for two mini-toggles to S/P each pup, and a 4way Tele switch to S/P the pups. I also installed Graphtech saddles (the ones made entirely of Teflon).

I made a mistake doing it all at once, because it changed the guitar so much in one swoop. The biggest mistake was the Graphtech’s. They darkened the tone of the guitar, the bridge pup lost most of its sparkle.
Graphtech claims they only tone down the icepick frequencies... but that was not my experiance.
I thought it was just me, so I left them on for a year and a half hoping I’d “get used” to them, I never did, I played it less, and less.

Since the Guitar lost its sparkle, I couldn’t appreciate the additional switching... but I had already repurposed the machined block saddles I’d originally installed. So I replaced the graphtech’s with a set of sandblasted block saddles from a Squier Standard Tele Bridge... this gave me my guitar back, and allowed me to properly access the new switching... which while unique, just wasn’t necessary (or incredibly useful).
So the original control plate went back on... and I’m back in 2014 (loving it just as it is).

Sometimes... If it ain’t broke...

[newey]

Sometimes... If it ain’t broke...

True, but sometimes the journey is worth more than the destination.

[sumgai]

Mar 10, 2018 7:52:29 GMT -5 newey said:

Sometimes... If it ain’t broke...

True, but sometimes the journey is worth more than the destination.

Or as our very own Zen master might have put it;

Lessons Are.

[Deleted]

Mar 10, 2018 2:39:07 GMT -5 ux4484 said:

As this is the only guitar I still have when I posted this originally, I thought I should finish it up.

I eventually opted for two mini-toggles to S/P each pup, and a 4way Tele switch to S/P the pups. I also installed Graphtech saddles (the ones made entirely of Teflon).

I made a mistake doing it all at once, because it changed the guitar so much in one swoop. The biggest mistake was the Graphtech’s. They darkened the tone of the guitar, the bridge pup lost most of its sparkle.
Graphtech claims they only tone down the icepick frequencies... but that was not my experiance.
I thought it was just me, so I left them on for a year and a half hoping I’d “get used” to them, I never did, I played it less, and less.

Since the Guitar lost its sparkle, I couldn’t appreciate the additional switching... but I had already repurposed the machined block saddles I’d originally installed. So I replaced the graphtech’s with a set of sandblasted block saddles from a Squier Standard Tele Bridge... this gave me my guitar back, and allowed me to properly access the new switching... which while unique, just wasn’t necessary (or incredibly useful).
So the original control plate went back on... and I’m back in 2014 (loving it just as it is).

Sometimes... If it ain’t broke...

glad you brought back to state 0.
Also you learned that pups is only a fraction of the tone.

[ux4484]

Mar 10, 2018 14:00:07 GMT -5 sumgai said:

Mar 10, 2018 7:52:29 GMT -5 newey said:

True, but sometimes the journey is worth more than the destination.

Or as our very own Zen master might have put it;

Lessons Are.

It’s the first time I found a S/P switch NOT worth it (any of the three)... well not so much worth it, but useful.

Then again, I recently threw a Epi LP Jr together for my brother, I put a Dimarzio Humbucker from He-double hokeysticks in it, and the split was way more useful than S/P, so that’s what it got.

Though.... my hearing is starting to decline these days.